Deputy for Seniors and Cadets

[USADOD]

Today, I was told to prepare for a additional assignment and that may be to take on the duty of Deputy Commander for seniors in conjunction with my current duty position Deputy Commander for Cadets. I've never seen this in a composite squadron, is this possible?

[bosshawk]

I don't think that there is any prohibition against it, but in my opinion, it isn't a good idea.  You have your hands full in both jobs, assuming that you have an active Sq in both cadets and seniors.  Far better that it be two people: each can devote full attention to his/her side of the puzzle.

[RiverAux]

That is an absolutely horrible idea.  You need to tell your squadron commander to look for someone else for one of those positions.  If he can't find someone credible to run the senior program then you might need to think about just becoming a cadet squadron. 

[Pingree1492]

Yep, it's possible, it's called being the Squadron Commander 

Depending on your staff, just one of these jobs is pretty much full time- you really can't do a good job at both.  It's one thing to wear multiple hats within the same overall area of responsibility, but this is something completely different.  Personally, I'd decline the offer.

[Stonewall]

Is it really that much different than being a Deputy Commander for a cadet squadron?  There are still seniors to manage, just not as many (theoretically) than a composite squadron. 

I was in a cadet squadron and served as deputy commander where we had 20 cadets and 9 seniors.  I managed both and the CC did everything else.

[RiverAux]

The seniors need to have an entirely separate program every meeting night and putting that together by itself is enough to keep someone busy if they're doing it right and not just asking the seniors to show up for coffee.  And thats just at a minimum.

And it is different than having seniors in a cadet unit where they are just an afterthought to working for the cadets. 

Deputy commander for cadets is the hardest job in CAP and someone that is already doing that doesn't have time to run a good senior program. 

[MIKE]

As much as I think it's a bad idea... CDS is probably a lot less work than CDC in most units.  You probably can do both, but that would really defeat the whole point of the Composite Squadron IMO.

[A.Member]

The seniors need to have an entirely separate program every meeting night

I couldn't disagree more with this statement.  This defeats the purpose of a composite squadron entirely.  While the two programs indeed have separate needs/objectives, there are plenty of very opportunities for collaboration between the two groups.  Perhaps not every meeting and perhaps not the entire time but certainly many opportunities exist.

Deputy commander for cadets is the hardest job in CAP and someone that is already doing that doesn't have time to run a good senior program. 

I will agree on this (although ES officer is pretty demanding as well).   If a DCC is actually paying attention to the program and doing a quality job, this position will likely demand a pretty good amount of time and effort.  As such, I agree with the other statements - it's probably not wise to attempt to be the deputy for both seniors and cadets (unless maybe you have a squadron of 10 members).

[DBlair]

I agree with some of the posts above... To be the Deputy Commander for Cadets and Seniors is akin to being a Squadron Commander, or Deputy Commander at-large and kind of defeats the purpose of having separate Deputy Commanders.

In my opinion, each has a very specific focus and to truly do either one fully and effectively, I suspect there will be a bit of give and take that results in one side being shortchanged. If they were two smaller staff positions, that would be one thing, but taking on two Deputy Commander positions would probably not be the best idea.

[capchiro]

Not a good idea in my opinion.  The seniors need just as much attention as the cadets, hence the two positions.  The squadron commander could/should take over the senior program or find someone else.  The DCS should be all about building/managing a senior squadron in essence.  Otherwise, just make it a cadet squadron and get rid of the senior side..

[Pumbaa]

I do both.. not easy.. Can't devote quality time to develop 2 strong programs.. I generally get sucked into the cadet end of things to the detriment of the seniors.

[Gunner C]

Back in the 60s, composite squadrons were, in effect, two squadrons.  In those days there was a lot less interaction between the two programs.  Now, there is a great deal of overlap.  I personally wouldn't want to have one person running both programs, but it could be done in a pinch.

[flyguy06]

Yeah, it could be done, but I dont think its a good idea.

[RADIOMAN015]

As much as I think it's a bad idea... CDS is probably a lot less work than CDC in most units.  You probably can do both, but that would really defeat the whole point of the Composite Squadron IMO.

Gee, in the military I don't ever recall working for the Deputy, it was the Commander.  I just don't see ANY benefit in a deputy commander for seniors, unless you've got 40+ seniors, many of who know nothing, and do nothing, than you can form F Troop (flight) & task them to do "something", otherwise on the senior side if you have your positions filled with at least one deep, and perhaps two deep personnel, no real need.  A strong professional development officer is all that is needed for the seniors to refer to for training & education. The cadet side definitely needs a deputy, liken to the First Sergeant in most military organizations.
RM 

[RiverAux]

Gee, wasn't expecting to see an anarchists view of how the senior side of a composite squadron should be run.  SOMEONE has to be in charge of the training and it sure as heck ain't going to be the PD officer since they have nothing at all to do with ES or Air Ops, which is where most seniors spend their time. 

[MIKE]

^ According to you.

[RiverAux]

In a composite squadron, yes most seniors are going to be working on ES or Air ops most of the time.  Some will occassionally do ground ops and some will occassionally help out with cadets in various ways, and heck, there will probably even be some AE stuff for the seniors to do every now and again. 

But, if the senior side of a composite squadron is spending most of their time working with cadets, then the squadron needs to be redesignated as a cadet squadron. 

Seniors need to be working on "senior stuff" most of the time if you're going to have a true senior program in your composite squadron. 

[EMT-83]

If you're going to wear both hats, what's the commander doing? Going on a long vacation?

[USADOD]

If you're going to wear both hats, what's the commander doing? Going on a long vacation?

Actually yea(short work related terms), capable officers to be commander is scarce and I have yet to reach 21 to take on that duty

[davidsinn]

If you're going to wear both hats, what's the commander doing? Going on a long vacation?

Actually yea(short work related terms), capable officers to be commander is scarce and I have yet to reach 21 to take on that duty

You don't need to be 21 to be a Commander. I know of one that was an SFO. I hold down both deputy positions currently because the CD/C was remove from his position and I was the only other choice. It's really easy to balance it out for me because we have half a dozen seniors and they all support the cadet program so I don't need to find something for them to do all the time. Right now the hardest part is building the cadet program because it was in absolute shambles when I took over. In the past 4 months we have tripled our cadet flight to 9 and will be over a dozen in just a few weeks do to word of mouth from the new cadets.

[IceNine]

Today, I was told to prepare for a additional assignment and that may be to take on the duty of Deputy Commander for seniors in conjunction with my current duty position Deputy Commander for Cadets. I've never seen this in a composite squadron, is this possible?

Tell him that position is called "deputy commander" remove the "of" and eliminate the 2 duty titles.

then immediately appoint a staff officer to both sides of the house.  A PDO, and a CP guy

[seniormember0607]

Mr. sinn
I don't believe the former CD/C of your unit was removed, I believe he resigned from his position.

[davidsinn]

It was a situation of "You can't fire me; I quit."

[seniormember0607]

Mr. Sinn,
I believe if you were to ask the person in question you would realize that he was not on the verge of getting fired.  The commander knew he was having some issues he was working through, and he was told that they were in the process of looking for a new candidate to fill the position to take some load off of him.  He was asked if he had a problem with them looking.  He had gotten very frustrated with a lot of things going on at the squadron level.

[USADOD]

Today, I was told to prepare for a additional assignment and that may be to take on the duty of Deputy Commander for seniors in conjunction with my current duty position Deputy Commander for Cadets. I've never seen this in a composite squadron, is this possible?

Tell him that position is called "deputy commander" remove the "of" and eliminate the 2 duty titles.

then immediately appoint a staff officer to both sides of the house.  A PDO, and a CP guy

That would make it  either a Senior or Cadet squadron. Being that both programs have strong membership, I do not believe that is a option.

[USADOD]

Mr. Sinn,
I believe if you were to ask the person in question you would realize that he was not on the verge of getting fired.  The commander knew he was having some issues he was working through, and he was told that they were in the process of looking for a new candidate to fill the position to take some load off of him.  He was asked if he had a problem with them looking.  He had gotten very frustrated with a lot of things going on at the squadron level.

You sound very close to the person in question.

[IceNine]

Today, I was told to prepare for a additional assignment and that may be to take on the duty of Deputy Commander for seniors in conjunction with my current duty position Deputy Commander for Cadets. I've never seen this in a composite squadron, is this possible?

Tell him that position is called "deputy commander" remove the "of" and eliminate the 2 duty titles.

then immediately appoint a staff officer to both sides of the house.  A PDO, and a CP guy

That would make it  either a Senior or Cadet squadron. Being that both programs have strong membership, I do not believe that is a option.

Cite?  Are you really trying to tell me that being appointed the Deputy Commander specifically means that your unit is specialized?

Call me crazy but removing specialization in the duty titles (i.e.- deleting "of xxxx") means that you have removed the specialization from the duty requirements.

Not that you have changed the charter of the unit.

[Capt Rivera]

Tell him that position is called "deputy commander" remove the "of" and eliminate the 2 duty titles.

then immediately appoint a staff officer to both sides of the house.  A PDO, and a CP guy

Call me crazy but removing specialization in the duty titles (i.e.- deleting "of xxxx") means that you have removed the specialization from the duty requirements.

Not that you have changed the charter of the unit.

I agree with IceNine - I am a Squadron Deputy Commander. Fortunately there is a DCC.

Prior to becoming the Squadron Deputy Commander, I was the Deputy Commander for Seniors.
I took on the "upgrade" due to our commander needing to travel for business often and oftentimes being out of communication. Decisions still need to be made in his absence which can sometimes be for over a week. (An example, I was acting CC during the first half of disaster response for the Grand Forks Composite Squadron during the 2009 ND Floods)

Primarily the Squadron Commander runs the show with me delegated some of his responsibilities at times. (We both work full time and have kids) (Don't want him to burn out). The DCC runs the cadet program.

As a Squadron deputy commander I split my time to ensure both programs run smoothly and with coordination whenever possible. I know much about both programs but probably not as much as the Squadron CC or the DCC in their respective area of responsibility.

I often think of my job as the learning phase to maybe someday become a squadron CC if needed and if my wife allows.  I do believe the best squadron CCs are versed in both programs.

Our squadron is not huge but it works well and our squadron is growing and retaining members. (Cadet & Officer). There is room for improvement and we will continue to do so.

(The above information is not provided for self serving purposes nor is it a all inclusive representation of the functions of the top 3 positions within my squadron. I by no means am ready or want the Squadron CC or DCC position at this time and would not be able to perform my functions as ably/confidently as I do without the Squadron CC or DCC we are blessed with. The 3 of us would not be as successful without our admin/personnel officer. (I would insert the PDO but that would be tooting my own horn  )

The point: It is possible & sometimes warranted/desired regardless of the size of the squadron. There is no minimum membership amount required per regulation for a reason.

If you would have the responsibility of a Deputy Commander of Cadets & Deputy Commander for Seniors at the same time you are deserving (hopefully) of the title of Deputy Commander. If the Squadron CC feels a Deputy commander position if warranted and feels you meet his description of a squadron DC, then you should be one... (There should be reason/need is what I am getting at. You appear to have that)

http://tiny.cc/DutiesoftheDeputyCommanderforSeniors

NOTE: The duties above also apply to the deputy squadron commander. Squadron commanders should develop a detailed position description for their deputy, outlining his/her specific duties and responsibilities in support of the overall squadron mission.

Edit: replaced DCS  with DCC

[USADOD]

Thank you,Sir; for the information.