Civil Air Patrol access to Air Force (and perhaps all DoD) bases

[Nick]

PREFACE DISCLAIMER: This is not a continuation of the "Base Security" topic, nor is it a forum for tossing out hairbrained ideas or arguing about what CAP "should" get with respect to base access. This is intended as a factual report of an actually happening issue and for realistic discussion.

This story hit the news a couple weeks ago:

12/16/2009 - LACKLAND AIR FORCE BASE, Texas -- The registration process for an enhanced Department of Defense identity authentication and force protection system starts Jan. 11 at Lackland.

Following squadron registration, which could take several months, Department of Defense employees, long-term contractors and retirees will register. Registering the base populous will last four to six months.

To register in DBIDS, a Common Access Card or other DoD-issued identification card is scanned into the system. The cardholder's information is verified and an electronic fingerprint is taken. SFS officials expect the process to take about five minutes a person, the time dependent on how much information has to be entered.

All active duty, family members, DoD contractors and retirees - anyone with permanent base access - will have to register into the Lackland DBIDS system. DBIDS will also require a criminal history check on personnel entering military installations. In the coming months, DBIDS will be installed at all visitor gates and contractor passes will require registration into the system.

DBIDS enhances installation security and improves force protection. It allows a gate guard to use a hand-held wireless scanner on the bar codes of CACs and DBIDS issued credentials. The scanners will instantly identify who the person is and whether or not they're allowed on base.

In addition to providing personal information at the point of entry, DBIDS will notify guards about lost or stolen ID cards, persons barred from the base, or persons being sought by their commander for an emergency or key response notification.

So, what is this doing for Civil Air Patrol members?  They are, for lack of a better term, categorized as "long-term visitors" on military installations for as long as their CAP membership remains current.  The CAP ID card is unsatisfactory for base access because 1) it's not DoD issued, and 2) the bar codes on military IDs is a base-24 conversion of the member's EDIPI, which CAP members do not have, so the cards can't be scanned ... which means they will need a visitor's pass issued.  How are they going to be vetted, because right now CAP member access is a local base policy, and DBIDS requires DoD-wide standardization of authenticating the person and validating their access... a lot like what DMDC did when CAC cards started getting issued.  Worse yet, how about visiting CAP members that show up at a new base at 7:00pm on a meeting night to get to that base's squadron ... is a CAP member going to be permitted to sponsor that visiting member?

Now, Lackland is just starting to go live with DBIDS... but other installations have been using it for up to and over a year now.  Has anyone had experience with this?  How was the experience?  What has the arrangement been between the tenant squadron and host base for processing its members?  Bueler?

[Rotorhead]

Peterson AFB in Colorado's had DBIDS for something like a year. Yes, you need it for access.

I have a CAP-authorized DBIDS card myself. No big deal. Took 10 mins to get it and it works just fine.

Visitors need prior authorization.

[Spike]

Sounds like CAP-USAF needs to do thier job.  Time for a determination on what CAP is, how we are used, what access we have, what our ID Cards need to be and what support the Air Force will provide to CAP members.

Fort Dix scans CAC's.  For those without a CAC or "entry card", you wait in line at the visitor center and have to be sponsored through.  Fort Knox is in the process of rolling this out, as well as other Army installations.  This is the future......and I beleive that CAP will be left behind and eventaully forced off military installations all together. 

[Nick]

I agree about CAP-USAF.

Wow, that must be new -- I was at Dix in December and they hadn't started yet.  Fortunately, from what I've seen, visitor centers will issue CAP members a long-term visitor pass through their CAP ID expiration date... so once you get one pass issued (with the barcode), you'll be good each time after.  But, getting through the first time is the trick -- gotta have a sponsor, and who will that be: the member's ID card, a trusted CAP agent, an EAL furnished by the local squadron and authenticated by SFS, the base CAP liaison, wing LO.  That's my concern.

[sarmed1]

Ft Dix uses the handheld scanner...McGuire does not, still MK I eyeball verification by SFS.

mk

[CASH172]

I just went through less than a week ago and McGuire was guarded by DoD police without a scanner.  I understand the duty switches between SFS and DoD police depending on the time of day now.  I haven't used the Dix gate in a while, but I've never had to go get a visitor's pass.  They did scan CACs for those who had them, but they also scanned my driver's license and CAPID. 

[Nick]

Yeah, I deployed with a guy who's a DoD police officer (not guard) there and I had a chance to talk with him while I was there last month.  It's one massive Joint Base Dix-McGuire-Lakehurst security forces division (McGuire's SFS inherited the personnel and resources from Dix and Lakehurst), the civilian PO/SF/MP/MAs get intermingled in all the posts, and then the guards man the gates... so what they're doing on one side of the base should be identical to what's happening on the other side of the base.

[CAPSGT]

Andrews has had handheld scanners for a while now.  When I go I still just show my CAPID and Driver's License.  Sometimes they scan the driver's license, sometimes they don't.  I've never had to get any sort of visitor's pass or anything.

[Stonewall]

I wonder if anything discussed in this thread could be considered an OPSEC violation.

How easy/difficult it is to get on [insert base here] and what is needed.

Just sayin',

[Eclipse]

I wonder if anything discussed in this thread could be considered an OPSEC violation.

How easy/difficult it is to get on [insert base here] and what is needed.

Just sayin',

We keep saying that, and people keep making these threads.

General interest aside, few, if anyone on CAP-Talk is going to be able to do anything other than gnash teeth about issues, and in all cases the local SD is going to be the first, best, place to ask for help.

[Spike]

^ It is not an OPSEC issue at all.  It is common knowledge anyone can get from visiting most installations public websites.  They usually give day/time info on gates open/closed and what gate visitors enter and what you need to get on an installation.

[Eclipse]

^ Great, then people can get the info off the gates or other more direct sources.

No one here can influence or change the situation, regardless of what it is.

This isn't a discussion board directly related to the military, per se.

CAP access to military resources is a benevolent situation that is precarious enough without these discussions making it worse.

99.9% of the people who talk about this stuff are also posting on forums directly related to the military, so why bring it here?

[Spike]

^ What?!?!

Please provide a list of what issues we are allowed to discuss on CAPTALK.  This topic may have no relevance to you, but to others it does. 

[NCRblues]

I agree with eclipse on this one (which is so very rare! )

Each and every base gets too decided how why and who enters their base, and cap just does not have the pull or power to change any of it. It is pretty simple (almost too imho) to get on a base as it is; it just takes a little planning ahead with the right people like your SD's.

Saying I was taught in tech school, "prior planning prevents poor performance for both parties"

[desertengineer1]

As I've posted in similar threads....  This has nothing really to do with CAP at all.  We are guests on installations as approved by the installation commanders.  Procedures for access to military installations by our members is really slightly higher than local members of 4H clubs coming on base to do fundraisers.  You still have to get approved per established procedures.  Yes, you have MCSS priviledges, but that is by the grace of the installation commander.  They have final say.

Government issued ID cards are a completely different category.  They are issued to individuals who have a mission (you work there) or entitlement (retiree/dependant) status.

Again....  We are guests on military installations as volunteers, and whatever level of access we are blessed to have will always be determined by mission relevance.  Beyond that, it is essentially kindness.

[desertengineer1]

I've seen nothing posted on this forum that isn't available through af.mil public web sites, AF regulations, or something that any pass and ID or SFS squadron will tell you by phone.

You do not obtain access on an installation without approval by the installation commander.  If you need or desire access, refer to the local procedures of that installation.  Some are strict.  Others are lenient (example: Pensacola NAS).  All have openly published access procedures.

[desertengineer1]

Just read the recent locked thread on basic access. 

All I see is someone posting some story about some guy somewhere, and the story is questionable at best. 

The base I work on has civilian guards.  They are respectful and courtious. 

But whether you are an officer or an airman, to demand a certain level of treatment to a civilian because of your military status is crossing a line.  YOU are the one in uniform that everyone sees first, and therefore establish the judged standard of conduct by your actions, and most importantly, your reactons.

I am saddened when I see such posts.  Whether they are true or not, they do not help the perception of CAP by those whom we have pledged to serve, and give us resources to execute the missions that we do well.

Rest assured, complaints of improper conduct by members in our squadron and wing are taken seriously.

When I was a squadron commander, I would have not hesitated to recommend a 2B for someone who "just didn't get it" with respect to such conduct.  We do not have latitude for loose cannons.  I can think of few incidents with worse long term damage than these (other than the obvious ones like cadet protection or overt criminal acts)

[flyguy06]

Idont think anyOPSEC issues are being violated here. All this is common and public knowledge.

[Rotorhead]

I wonder if anything discussed in this thread could be considered an OPSEC violation.

How easy/difficult it is to get on [insert base here] and what is needed.

Just sayin',

No. As usual, there's nothing OPSEC-sensitive here, despite the standard hopefullness that we might be that important.

[Nick]

Actually, I believe my initial direct question was "how has this affected various CAP members' access to their bases", and since installation access controls are being "standardized" across the DoD through DBIDS, I wanted to see what the "on-the-streets" implications have been.

[desertengineer1]

Actually, I believe my initial direct question was "how has this affected various CAP members' access to their bases", and since installation access controls are being "standardized" across the DoD through DBIDS, I wanted to see what the "on-the-streets" implications have been.

None.  The procedures for access have not changed.  The installation commander approves access of CAP members for a specific function or need (meeting, SAREX, competition, encampment).  This is usually done through a derived authority process and by access letter, signed by someone with escort authority.

Your name goes on the list - just like the 4H doing a fundraiser, or the local town mayor visiting for a change of command.

As always, you agree to abide by the rules.

[flyguy06]

Hasnt affected my access to base at all

[Eclipse]

Actually, I believe my initial direct question was "how has this affected various CAP members' access to their bases", and since installation access controls are being "standardized" across the DoD through DBIDS, I wanted to see what the "on-the-streets" implications have been.

Because?

[RADIOMAN015]

Currently there is no problem with access at the military base we hold our meeting at.  I personally don't use my CAP ID card for base access since I am a military retiree.

For Civil Air Patrol units that meet on military installations, there currently are procedures set forth by installation security officials at each base that CAP commanders comply with to ensure access of authorized CAP personnel to bases.

This new system really is a massive undertaking, and the press release at Lackland states they can input about 10 people per hour per machine (so about 6 minutes for each person).

I would agree with you that eventually Civil Air Patrol members are likley to be affected by this, especially those that utilize facilities on military bases for their regular meetings.

BTW I would think that someone at our National Hdqs would be asking CAP-USAF HQ to find out what procedures may have to be followed by CAP members in the future.
RM 

[AirDX]

Actually, I believe my initial direct question was "how has this affected various CAP members' access to their bases", and since installation access controls are being "standardized" across the DoD through DBIDS, I wanted to see what the "on-the-streets" implications have been.

I work on Hickam AFB (very shortly to become Joint Base Pearl Harbor-Hickam) and we have a squadron on Hickam, but the first I've heard of DBIDS is this thread.  Though a little googling and I see in PACAF it's in use in Korea and Yokota AFB.  Not scheduled here yet, though.  I'll find out about base access for CAP members who don't otherwise have access.

[desertengineer1]

Actually, I believe my initial direct question was "how has this affected various CAP members' access to their bases", and since installation access controls are being "standardized" across the DoD through DBIDS, I wanted to see what the "on-the-streets" implications have been.

I work on Hickam AFB (very shortly to become Joint Base Pearl Harbor-Hickam) and we have a squadron on Hickam, but the first I've heard of DBIDS is this thread.  Though a little googling and I see in PACAF it's in use in Korea and Yokota AFB.  Not scheduled here yet, though.  I'll find out about base access for CAP members who don't otherwise have access.

They really have nothing to do with each other.  Was in PACAF this year.  The integrated system is just an expedited way to add additional verification of ID.  Think of it as a you do / don't live here check.  As a TDY visitor, they scanned my ID, and it gave a little angry buss instead of a happy beep.  They asked for additional authorization (orders), and that was that.  CAP has nothing to do with it.

[Nick]

They really have nothing to do with each other.  Was in PACAF this year.  The integrated system is just an expedited way to add additional verification of ID.  Think of it as a you do / don't live here check.  As a TDY visitor, they scanned my ID, and it gave a little angry buss instead of a happy beep.  They asked for additional authorization (orders), and that was that.  CAP has nothing to do with it.

Sure, that was that for a status member (AD/RES/ANG/DEP/CIV/CTR).  I'm not really talking about the actual "at-the-gate verification process", more about the policies for enrolling CAP members at various locations.  I have seen the pass and ID section at bases treat CAP members as anything from short-term visitors to civilian employees to active duty officers... so I'm curious if they are standardizing the eligibility for CAP members, or if it's still being arbitrarily decided.

[Major Carrales]

Actually, I believe my initial direct question was "how has this affected various CAP members' access to their bases", and since installation access controls are being "standardized" across the DoD through DBIDS, I wanted to see what the "on-the-streets" implications have been.

Because?

What are you getting at there, Eclipse?

[desertengineer1]

Sure, that was that for a status member (AD/RES/ANG/DEP/CIV/CTR).  I'm not really talking about the actual "at-the-gate verification process", more about the policies for enrolling CAP members at various locations.  I have seen the pass and ID section at bases treat CAP members as anything from short-term visitors to civilian employees to active duty officers... so I'm curious if they are standardizing the eligibility for CAP members, or if it's still being arbitrarily decided.

That's going to depend on the installation procedures.  I don't expect CAP members to be included because we are not "24 hour access".

So, at best, I expect the standard access list process to apply.

[Pumbaa]

Wow, access to the base I am at is real easy....

Flash your lights 7 times as you approach the guy or gal with the big gun.

Smile really big and try not to stare at the big gun...  Show your CAC and keep smiling, don't look at the big gun...  Pull away real slow, because if you squeal the tires then holes start appearing in your car and your head....

Holding cash out, sometimes works too...

See easy peasy...

BTW for those who are worried about OPSEC this is tongue in cheek.

[AirDX]

CAP has nothing to do with it.

Uh, yeah, I know that.  Two sentences.  1. DBIDS.  2. CAP access to JBPHH.

[PHall]

Wow, access to the base I am at is real easy....

Flash your lights 7 times as you approach the guy or gal with the big gun.

Smile really big and try not to stare at the big gun...  Show your CAC and keep smiling, don't look at the big gun...  Pull away real slow, because if you squeal the tires then holes start appearing in your car and your head....

Holding cash out, sometimes works too...

See easy peasy...

BTW for those who are worried about OPSEC this is tongue in cheek.

And they still shoot ya because nobody smiles like that unless they're guilty about something.
(Plus flashing your lights made them think you were the pizza delivery guy.)

[SarDragon]

Nah, man, the pizza signal is your four-way flashers. 

[Spike]

^ You joke, but Fort Dix had a serious problem with pizza delivery in the past. It could have been a whole lot worse, and thanks to that situation as well as other problems, we have DBIDS before us now. 

[RogueLeader]

Yeah we know.  Theres a thread about it.

Lighten up Francis. . . .

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Sounds like CAP-USAF needs to do thier job.  Time for a determination on what CAP is, how we are used, what access we have, what our ID Cards need to be and what support the Air Force will provide to CAP members.

Getting base security familiar with AFI 10-2701 wouldn't hurt either.

Also a standard CAP photo ID to replace/supplement the general ID card; one that maybe has scannable information that you've passed an FBI fingerprint check.

We meet on an ANG base (anonymous in the interest of OPSEC) with civilian guards.  Go to the base visitor's office once you get a permanent card, they issue you a document to show the guards, and 99% of the time you're good to go.

I've never had a problem.  Even before I had the document mentioned above, when I would have to go into the guard shack to get base visitor's clearance, they were always friendly and courteous.  I went to the Security Forces facility to get my prints done and they were all really cool to me.

Recently I've had to show driver's licence a couple of times, but I suspect that was in the aftermath of what happened at Fort Hood.

My squadron CC drives home in no uncertain terms that we are guests on their base, they provide our meeting facility, and our conduct must reflect that, or we will no longer have that access.

[NCRblues]

I am not trying to be rude at all, but um…
How in the world is saying the guard base you have weekly meetings at an opsec issue???

I mean, as you say, you have to check in with base security anyway, so someone could not just come rolling up to the gate claiming their with that cap thingy, so I am really at a loss at how it could have opsec connections.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

^^^Intended to be somewhat tongue-in-cheek, since the OPSEC issue was raised earlier.

Irony doesn't come across well on the internet.

Sorry.

[Rotorhead]

Sounds like CAP-USAF needs to do thier job.  Time for a determination on what CAP is, how we are used, what access we have, what our ID Cards need to be and what support the Air Force will provide to CAP members.

Getting base security familiar with AFI 10-2701 wouldn't hurt either.

Also a standard CAP photo ID to replace/supplement the general ID card; one that maybe has scannable information that you've passed an FBI fingerprint check.

Given that bases that use DBIDS accept only DBIDS and that every base will ultimately use DBIDS, that's unnecessary and wouldn't help.