Border Ops

[Flying Pig]

I think the credit is that we keep getting invited back.  Who do you want credit from?  If you want, I can make you a plaque with your name on it.  Do you think the Border Agents patrolling El Centro get any credit?  We go down there and do on a weekend what they do everyday.  On occassion, Ill get a "Thanks for coming" from an officer or two if I happen to see them, but other than that......I dont think we want a front page article in Time Magazine showing us doing our CD operations.  If we want to start beating our chests, youll find agencies stepping away from us.

[Tater]

Cool!! I want a plaque!  Seriously, the border means getting to fly your tail off, (and fairly interesting flying at that) do something important and useful with your skills, fellowship with some good folks and some of the expense is reimbursed.  What more could you want?  As an organization, we get the credit where it counts, with the folks we fly for - confirmed by Bosshawk.  Like Pig, I have had some real nice conversations with our "customers" airborne and on the ground.  They are very magnanimous when I have dealt with them.  I really feel like a partner in an important endeavor.  That is more than enough for me.  Others may have a different experience, but if I could I would be down there every weekend, yes even August and September.

[Flying Pig]

Cool!! I want a plaque!  Seriously, the border means getting to fly your tail off, (and fairly interesting flying at that) do something important and useful with your skills, fellowship with some good folks and some of the expense is reimbursed.  What more could you want?  As an organization, we get the credit where it counts, with the folks we fly for - confirmed by Bosshawk.  Like Pig, I have had some real nice conversations with our "customers" airborne and on the ground.  They are very magnanimous when I have dealt with them.  I really feel like a partner in an important endeavor.  That is more than enough for me.  Others may have a different experience, but if I could I would be down there every weekend, yes even August and September.

Ouch.....how bout every other weekend during the summer?

[Tater]

Heck yeah!  The oldtimers will remember the trailers, non-potable water, and the water (kinda) coolers.  And the walk to and from the airplane was uphill both ways, too. It does get awful hot, but its worthwhile.

[RiverAux]

Well, considering that I haven't done any border work, I don't want any credit for anything.  But, since many of our own members don't even realize that we're doing it, its easy to conclude that we're not maximizing public affairs opportunities associated with such an important mission. 

[JohnKachenmeister]

Its sort of a shame that we're not actually getting credit for it, just like we never got any credit for CAP's coastal patrol service in WWII.  Its not like its a secret (TP testified about it before Congress), but it sure doesn't get much attention from our public affairs folks -- and I presume that is at the request of the requesting agencies.

That, and most of our airplanes are pre-positioned at unsecured or poorly-secured civilian airports.  I would hate to take off in a CAP plane that was tampered with.

Back in the pre-9/11 days, our airplanes were mostly unmarked.  Maybe a small decal on the vertical stabilizer, but otherwise "Plain white wrappers."  Then came 9/11, and when we flew over Ground Zero, there was a reaction ranging from concern to mild panic.  Remember-- all airplanes were grounded, except us.

The plain white wrapper was to facilitate CAP flying drug interdiction, but after the wave of fear in NY, CAP adopted the current "Thunderbird Wannabe" paint scheme.  Unfortunately, that makes our planes better targets on the ground.

[RiverAux]

Sorry, but your timeline is way off.  I don't know the exact date, but we adopted the current paint scheme before 9/11.  Having USAF Aux and later Civil Air Patrol in big white letters on the tail is a post-9/11 thing, but the paint schme isn't.  My 1998 version of 66-1 has the current paint scheme.

[BillB]

CAP aircraft were never "plain white wrapper. There was a wide blue stripe down the said, a large CAP seal on the tail and a stripe on the tail bearing the Wing name. Often the aircraft acrried a Find Ribbon deval on the doors. Prior to that, the CAP emblem was normally placed in front of the doors behind the engine cowling.  Even member owned aircraft could carry the CAP emblem (triangle and prop)

[tarheel gumby]

I wold like to think that the reason that there is not a lot of publicity of these missions is for OPSEC. Just like it was back in the dark days in the 1940's. CAP aircraft can be, and have been tampered with in the past. I have a copy of an oral history interview of one of our Coastal Patrol pilots that was the victim of tampering. The FBI was called in on that incident, and found that several aircraft had been tammpered with.
So I for one will not complain about CAP not getting credit for that type of mission.

[RiverAux]

I think we're thinking of different border ops missions.  There are counterdrug missions along the border, which are one thing.  We don't do public affairs on them, and I somewhat agree with that policy. 

But, I've been thinking about the SAR missions that we've been flying for years looking for people that have gotten in trouble after crossing the border.  For those missions there is no incentive on the part of anyone to do anything to hamper our operations and those are the ones that we really need to be publisizing. 

[SarDragon]

Well, considering that I haven't done any border work, I don't want any credit for anything.  But, since many of our own members don't even realize that we're doing it, its easy to conclude that we're not maximizing public affairs opportunities associated with such an important mission.

IMHO, this may be one of those missions that should not be so actively publicized. Let's focus the attention elsewhere.

YMMV.

[JohnKachenmeister]

If we publicize the "Saves" resulting from the border flights, the bad folks will know we are conducting border flights.

Newspapers will want to interview the aircrew who made the "Save."

The bad guys will want to kidnap the aircrew's children as hostages.

[blackrain]

I think I touched on this last year some time, but I wouldn't mind, as a member of the Army Guard, being able to fly border missions on orders for my 2 weeks of annual training.

Sure would be more worthwhile than what they have set up this year.

I'm sure they're numerous legal issues but it seems other than that it might work.

[blackrain]

Any of you see LTC Daugherty's (of the Texas National Guard) comments in National Guard magazine about his lack of fixed wing air assets and it's detrimental affect on their border/counterdrug mission?

[Flying Pig]

Do you have the article?

[RiverAux]

Does he mention CAP as an alternative?

[Flying Pig]

More importantly, did he mention me?

[blackrain]

I do have the article and no mention of the CAP as yet but it's possible someone brought the CAP angle to his attention since the article came out. No idea if this will go anywhere.

I may be able to scan it at work Monday and upload it then too.

[blackrain]

I have a pdf of the article about the Texas border mission. Apologize for taking so long. Message me if you would like to see it.

[blackrain]

I sent it out to the 2  that have requested it. FlyingPig I actually sent it to you this morning. So please check your email