Base Access

[heliodoc]

Uncomfortable??

How is that , Eclipse? 

Is the CAP FOUO boogeyman gonna hunt us down for this / these threads...

If so then CAP NHQ ought to get with 1AF and put a dictum out about "Secret entry with CAPID cards"

All the ex REAL mil types and some non mil types are merely stating the obvious

FOUO in CAP gone awry

[JoeTomasone]

I'm uncomfortable with the exact requirements for access to a military installation (for example, where a CAP Membership Card is sufficient and where there is another control like being on an EAL) made public for anyone to decide which base is the lowest-hanging fruit for access. 

It's information that the non-CAP member reading this board has no need to know.  Think about a list being made of every USAF base that can be accessed for a ~100 membership fee with no other controls and how that might be valuable to some people.

This is the first thread that I've seen that I think should be edited and locked.   I don't mind us discussing it in private (PMs, say), but this information should not be public knowledge.

[desertengineer1]

I need a little help from some of my fellow CAPTalkers.
The AF base that I am often at (that also has a CAP squadron on base, but I'm not a member of that squadron) is trying to straighten out base access for CAP members.

It seems there are conflicts and the Base Ops Group commander has asked me to find out how other bases handle providing access to bases for CAP members (without a military ID, retired, reserve, etc.) supporting a contingency operations such as search and rescue, going to the clothing store to purchase uniforms, attending CAP meetings on base, etc. We are especially interested in access to AF bases but please include other (Air Guard, Natl Guard, Army, etc).

Any input would be greatly appreciated.   Thanks.

Base access is extended as a priveledge by the installation commander for CAP members to accomplish the mission.  The procedures are usually worked out between CAP units and the OG CC based on base policy - as it seems the OG CC is doing with you now.  The rules vary, usually due to the size and type of base.

For the large bases, the following is pretty standard:

1.  Access by non-military personnel is a priveledge extended by the installation commander, subject to revocation at any time.

2.  For MCSS, CAP Wing business, or special funcitons, the policy is usually a valid CAP ID Card and another government issued photo ID.

3.  All vehicle requirements for that installation must be adhered to (Seatbelts, insurance, Tag, inspection, laws, special motorcycle requirements).

4.  As a priveledge, access constitutes member's consent for vehicle searches.

For the smaller bases - as with our unit who meets on an ANG base, the rules can be a bit more strict:

1.  Access to the base is by EAL, submitted by designated CAP officers (usually the commander) at a designated time before the meeting.  We usually send ours the day prior.  Visitors not on the list are OK, but the gate will call or page me before letting them on.

2.  Same rules listed above apply.  Behave yourself and everything goes well.

If a member expresses disagreement with the base policy (usually over the search part) I remind them this is a priveledge extended by the installation commander because we do good things for the AF and the community.  If they are not comfortable with it, I nicely recommend they find another CAP unit, or reconsider membership overall.  The last thing we need above all is an incident, so I try to be very clear about this.

Talk to the SF folks and the SG CC about what they want you to do.  SHould be an easy thing.

Hope this helps.

[desertengineer1]

I'm uncomfortable with the exact requirements for access to a military installation (for example, where a CAP Membership Card is sufficient and where there is another control like being on an EAL) made public for anyone to decide which base is the lowest-hanging fruit for access. 

It's information that the non-CAP member reading this board has no need to know.  Think about a list being made of every USAF base that can be accessed for a ~100 membership fee with no other controls and how that might be valuable to some people.

This is the first thread that I've seen that I think should be edited and locked.   I don't mind us discussing it in private (PMs, say), but this information should not be public knowledge.

There's nothing "Spooky" about this conversation, it's standard procedure for everyone requiring access to the base, and is usually posted on base web sites.

Not sure where you're getting the EAL FOUO fear.  Once Pass and ID or the SFS gets the access roster, it is considered Privacy Act information and not released publicly (or should not be). 

I don't understand the thread-lock argument here. 

[Eclipse]

^ Exactly.

[desertengineer1]

I have to be honest, I haven't responded to the PM yet, but I'm completely uncomfortable with this conversation.

??

[JoeTomasone]

I'll PM you guys. 

[AlphaSigOU]

I'll have to agree with Joe... in this day and age where bad guys are savvy and will exploit any potential vulnerability whenever the opportunity arises, we can't take a chance.

[JoeTomasone]

And let's not forget:

18 Guests, 14 Users (6 Spiders)   Users active in past 15 minutes


These posts are being archived by Google, et al. 

[Rotorhead]

I'm uncomfortable with the exact requirements for access to a military installation (for example, where a CAP Membership Card is sufficient and where there is another control like being on an EAL) made public for anyone to decide which base is the lowest-hanging fruit for access. 

It's information that the non-CAP member reading this board has no need to know.  Think about a list being made of every USAF base that can be accessed for a ~100 membership fee with no other controls and how that might be valuable to some people.

This is the first thread that I've seen that I think should be edited and locked.   I don't mind us discussing it in private (PMs, say), but this information should not be public knowledge.

It already is.

It is public  information.

This super-secret squirrel cloak-and-dagger bit is just silly.

[desertengineer1]

And let's not forget:

18 Guests, 14 Users (6 Spiders)   Users active in past 15 minutes


These posts are being archived by Google, et al.

Nothing posted so far isn't on public base web sites regarding access procedures and policy.  Contractors and workers need to know the info before showing up at the gate.  The bottom line message in all counts is if you are not authorized or do not agree with the rules, you don't get in.

Policy that is publicly available is OK.  You need that information to do the things that you do.  Detailed discussion about base XXX and what happened on YYY is a no no.

[JoeTomasone]

Policy that is publicly available is OK.  You need that information to do the things that you do.  Detailed discussion about base XXX and what happened on YYY is a no no.

Exactly my point.   I'm worried that a collection of posts such as "Well, here at Blownchunks AFB if you have $100 to get a membership card, you get easy access and the run of the place" may cause those who shouldn't get access to decide to GET access.

It makes ZERO sense from both a CAP perspective and a FP perspective to identify the "weak links" where a good CAP/Base relationship has permitted easy access.

[JoeTomasone]

Nothing posted so far isn't on public base web sites regarding access procedures and policy. 

Oh?   Go back and re-read some of the first posts.

[desertengineer1]

Nothing posted so far isn't on public base web sites regarding access procedures and policy. 

Oh?   Go back and re-read some of the first posts.

Just did again....

Two categories are posted.  (1) Base Procedures that are public.  Pass/ID will tell you the same thing if you call, or just look on the XXX.af.mil website.  and (2) " they should" posts that are nothing more than opinions.  Maybe base YYY should have snipers in the trees.  Maybe base ZZZ should have a mote with starving dragons.  Maybe I should win the lottery..... 

You get the drift...

The next phase is usually "I hate it when..." or "Back at XXXX the guy gave me a hard time about my CAP iD card"...

Yeah..  That goes right back to what I stated earlier.  He/she can tell you to turn around for whatever reason.  Nothing new there...

[Lt Oliv]

I think it may be a tad naive to think that someone is using this information for the purposes you have described.

At the Naval Station in Norfolk, they routinely allow the pizza delivery guy on base.  The pizza places proudly advertise "We Deliver On Base," even post-911 they allowed civilian taxi drivers to cruise around the barracks looking for sailors who wanted a ride into town.

There are countless ways for people to get onto a military base, and they are all public knowledge.  You know the Burger King or McDonalds that's on base? How do you think the employees (who are not dependents) get to work?  Through an access list. 

And since its easier to become an employee at McDonalds than it is to, say, ingratiate yourself into the Squadron or Wing, wait a month and a half for a membership card to be issued and then get added to an access list (which may or may not actually allow you access to anything), I think this conversation falls into the realm of "pretty darn harmless."

We should not discuss how many access points bases have, we should not discuss specific bases even, but saying "Well, in the past we had an access list and they allowed us on base with no problem" is hardly poor OPSEC, and you'd be wiser to direct your ire toward the golden arches before aiming at those who just want a general question answered.

[Larry Mangum]

Guys, there ia no "Secret Squirrel" stuff about base access. Nothing has been discussed that is not publicly available information.

[Eclipse]

The point here is that we don't need to provide any variable to the bad guys for them to do the math.

Something silly like "they deliver pizza on base" may be public knowledge, or not - they don't need get it here.

I would vote these discussions be locked / taken down and in the future done via PM.

[heliodoc]

Man up that CAP Black Van for possible FOUO infractions

THIS IS an emergency get your lights and sireeeeens on

[desertengineer1]

Guys, there ia no "Secret Squirrel" stuff about base access. Nothing has been discussed that is not publicly available information.

You can call PASS/ID for any base and get the same information that's been discussed here.  The Pizza guy is usually a military dependant or an E-3 with a night job.  My roomie was one when I was airman. If not, they can easily get put on an EAL. 

Nothing spooky here.  Move along...

[wingnut55]

Ok you guys get off Joes Back

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http://www.gointhebox.com/index.html