Comply or not?

[RogueLeader]

NOTE ; this is a thinking scenario:  NOT reality.

Situation, there is a rebellion in response to the complete erosion of personal freedoms and the institution of a socialist State.  The CAP has been called up in its AF Aux status.  The President has announce Martail Law and invoked TITLE 10 > Subtitle A > PART I > CHAPTER 15 > § 332 which states

Whenever the President considers that unlawful obstructions, combinations, or assemblages, or rebellion against the authority of the United States, make it impracticable to enforce the laws of the United States in any State by the ordinary course of judicial proceedings, he may call into Federal service such of the militia of any State, and use such of the armed forces, as he considers necessary to enforce those laws or to suppress the rebellion.

What would you fight with the Military?


Again, I'm not saying this can or would happen; just what would you do if we were faced with the question.

[Tubacap]

Interesting situation isn't it...

[Al Sayre]

Define "fight with", alongside or against the armed forces of oppression?

[Senior]

...to defend against enemies foriegn and DOMESTIC....
I think this thread is treading on thin ice

[Eclipse]

You might want to hit the spell check next time as well.

As to this rebellion, are we talking about X-Wings?  Cause I'm all about X-Wings. Also light sabers...yeah light sabers are happening....

[RogueLeader]

Define "fight with", alongside or against the armed forces of oppression?

With: alongside Mil in putting down Rebellion, not weapons but working against them.
NO: Refuse either side, neutral
Join the Rebellion: Defy CAP orders and actively participate in Rebellion- in whatever meathod you choose.

[Major Lord]

Jeepers, the President would never do something against the Constitution, so your question is totally hypothetical right?

Your question presupposes that CAP would be called up as CAP, which is to say, a noncombatant volunteer force. So "fighting" would not be an issue. Whether we could be utilized in a noncombat role is another issue. Of course, the citizenry has the obligation as members of the irregular militia to aid in the suppression of riots, etc., and anyone legally obligated to serve de Jure as a member of the militia ( white males between the ages of 14 and 42 or something along those lines, per the act of militia, 1776) could be compelled to aid the regular federal authorities in the fulfillment of their mission. CAP members are not exempted from any civic duty, or obligated to any special duties as a function of being a member of CAP. Legally, we have the same standing as shoe salesmen at J.C. Penny's.

The larger question is whether an individual (who may or may not have sworn a binding oath to support and defend the Constitution, etc) is obligated to obey an unlawful order. The answer is well established: You have no duty to obey an unlawful order, but they can hang you later if you are proved wrong.

So without reading too much into the question, let me rephrase it: Would you be willing to bear arms against Americans for the purpose of establishing or supporting an unlawful and illegitimate regime? The answer again I believe  is self evident.

I don't think anyone should fear your question, nor do I think you are on thin ice. If you have a sworn duty to defend the Constitution, I think you are best served by understanding what that oath means. A few years ago, a survey was conducted by the Clinton people asking Marines if they would comply with an order to go door to door to seize privately held firearms if ordered to do so. Overwhelmingly, they responded in the affirmative, but what would they really do? Does the average 17 Year old Marine really understand his larger duty to his Country? I hope so.

Major Lord
p.s. Anyone wearing a hello kitty storm trooper outfit has forever lost the moral highground in criticizing us Scots about our kilts!

[RogueLeader]

Right for the most part^^^

Totally hypothetical.

The situation is that the govenrment has turned into the socialist government, and the Rebellion is to fight it and re-establish the Constitution  and laws back to what the Original framers had intended.

Yes CAP called up as CAP.


BTW, that is NOT Storm Tropper armor.  It's Darth Vaderina armor.

[PA Guy]

I think I better go find my tin foil hat. Hypothetically of course

[biomed441]

Well, that would be quite the situation wouldn't it.  Hmmmmm what would I do.........I would.........probably move to Texas. 

[PaulR]

My oath was to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States of America...

This is a dangerous topic, in my opinion. 

[biomed441]

You might want to hit the spell check next time as well.

As to this rebellion, are we talking about X-Wings?  Cause I'm all about X-Wings. Also light sabers...yeah light sabers are happening....

I'm more partial to the A-wing myself. And yeah, lightsabers kick A$$!

[Major Lord]

There is nothing per se in the Constitution from that prevents the citizenry from enacting socialist reforms through lawful means, and it would be treasonous to make war on the United States if it adopted more socialist policies through democratic and lawful means. You would of course have the same recourse that the socialists did, to achieve a change of government through lawful means.

Some people hold the position that certain rights are unalienable (where would we get a right-wing wack-wack, tinfoil-hat wearing belief system like that?) granted by our creator, and codified, not granted, by the Constitution. (look it up-its right near the front) Any tyrant abridging these fundamental rights is doing so unlawfully, and there is no legal foundation for a government throwing off the chains placed upon it by the people.  The founding fathers must have had quite a dilemna when it came time to take arms against their sovereign king, but apparently the argument that these unalieable rights supercedes the "rights' of governments to "rule" won out in the long run. I tend to think they did the right thing.

Major Lord

[RogueLeader]

Who said socialist reforms.  Just go as stated, if not clear, ask  and I'll clarify by whay I meant.  And yes, this is still hypothetical.

If you want I can change it up. . . .

[Viper QA]

I know this was meant to be a "what if" poll, but I really hate this kind of stuff. I don't know if you meant for people to read into this or not, but let's face it we wouldn't be having this conversation if not for President Obama.

I think all the hype over Barack Obama being a Socialist who wants to destroy America is non-sense. America is never going to be socialist and Barack Obama does not want to destroy America. America is not going to collapse, nor is there going to be any revolution. The American Republic is strong and will steam through these troubling times.

For the record, I am a conservative who did not vote for Barack Obama, but he is my President and I hope he can help fix some of the problems we are having. I will say that I am not very optimistic about his ideas, nor do I agree with his politics, but I wish him well. I think by the mid-term elections most people will realize that his liberal agenda is not right for America and we will see a move back to the center-right. I believe that unless a miracle happens he will be a one term President.

Let's not forget that most of the trouble we are in was caused by a two-term Republican President. I voted for President Bush, but let's face it he made a great deal of mistakes that we will pay for well into the future.

America will be fine. Barack Obama is not a Socialist, Communist, Muslim, or America hater. He is simply an elitist Democrat who is very, very, liberal.

I'm more worried about the cuts to DoD programs like the F-22 Raptor than anything else.

[RogueLeader]

If you hate it, why post?

Maybe it is because of whom is in charge, maybe not.  It might be because of the enitre situation we are in.

Also, there is a problem with thinking about tough moral issues. 

The real inspiration of this came from a werid conjunction between the current social situation and PCA thread.  I figured that it could give us a mental workout.  I'm not sorry if you don't care for it. 

[Johnny Yuma]

Hint: The answer is "D"

In fact, those who said "YES" really scare me...

[Flying Pig]

Seeing as how we are not the militia.  I guess it doesnt apply to us anyway.  We cant be "ordered up" as CAP members anyway, by anyone, unless you VOLUNTEER to go.

[tjaxe]

I also think this thread is on thin ice.  I don't see how this can do anything but boil tempers and cause rigid stances and opinions. 

[JayT]

Isn't this in the same vein as "America gets invaded?"