Wing Banker

[FW]

^I agree.  It's one of the reasons CAP established the CAP Foundation.
It's also a major reason why some wings get money from their respective state; thanks to the efforts of the members. 
However, one of the major problems with our getting major donations from outside indivduals, corporations, etc. is the perception we are a govt. agency.  Although this is slowly changing, we still have a ways to go before we get any major gifts, donations or endowments....
Of course, I would love to be wrong about this... anyone want to make a large deposit to the cause?  :angel:

[NIN]

My unit has between $5000 & $6000 in the bank.  We have that "nest egg" for a number of reasons, and last I looked "malfeasance" wasn't one of them.

In our case (and surely, other units can be different) we used to obtain our squadron funds thru car parking at the local NASCAR track. $7/person/hr was a nice way to spend 2 days on a weekend and get some fat cash for your unit.  At the track by 4-5am, out the door by 1pm, with around 12-15 people you just made about $2000 for the unit twice a year.   We did that for a lot of years, and the money made subsidized activities, gave us some startup captial to buy buy insignia and patches for resale without having to collect money up front, bought some things like a squadron computer, a banner for our parades, pay for the tiedown for our airplane, cover the ferry costs for O-flts, did maintenance on our CAP van, gave us top-notch color guard supplies and equipment, fronting the cost of gas to put in the van for activities, kept our FB-111 in fine shape, provided encampment scholarships to families who had a need, etc.

Then they changed the rules at the NASCAR track:  must be 16, need to agree to bring a minimum number of people, sign a performance stipulation with the track (wing commander wouldn't), etc. 

So now our pretty much guaranteed funding source dried up. 

Thankfully, we'd built up some $$ by some shrewd cash management and being fiscally responsible, which was a sufficient cushion to continue operations until we were able to change fundraising gears and find another fundraising avenue.  But you don't do that overnight.

So if you have a unit that raises $1000 a year and spends $995 of that, and their funding source is interrupted, they're pretty out of luck until they can ramp up another.  That's a significant disruption in their operations.  Is that malfeasance or just bad luck?

We built up that amount of money over a number of years.  Our annual run rate is somewhere around $2500-3000 a year.   We can afford to survive a full year with no fundraising if something went awry. 

And interestingly: things did.  Look at the economy. We've had more families than ever ask for help with encampment.  We can support it.  The cost of gas spiked up last year, making even the squadron's contribution to the cost of activities skyrocket.  We covered that.  Aerospace trip to the wind tunnel: What should have been $50/participant was $20 due to subsidization (and we were unable to get the aerospace grant we got the year before, so the squadron's subsidization was higher than the previous trip), and we had great turn out. 

Malfeasance or just trying to be cautious about where things are going?

And I'll tell you what: If you came to my unit and said "Hey, there, Colonel Ninness, you've raised $3000 this year, but only spent $1500, so we want you to give $1500 to the other units in the group, cuz, you know, they're not nearly as good as you guys are..." you'd better make sure you're wearing some protective sports gear.   

That money gets raised by the unit, it get spent by the unit. Period.  And while its not a democracy, my finance committee and CAPR 173-1 says so.

[swamprat86]

As soon as my check from Nigeria clears...I am sooo making a donation to CAP.   

[Eclipse]

Did you guys actually read my post?

I said the decision was subjective, then gave examples.

$5k in the bank with a run rate at $3 a year would not fall into that category in my opinion.  However $5k with no operating costs probably would.

At a minimum, in the second example, the money should be in something longer term, where the interest distributions becomes a non-issue. 

You're clearly using the money as intended, or plan to, vs. some units just stuffing it in their proverbial mattress.

That money gets raised by the unit, it get spent by the unit. Period.  And while its not a democracy, my finance committee and CAPR 173-1 says so.

Absolutely, and no one can give a single example of anything close to the above not happening, which is why these continues conspiracy theories about the WBP are so frustrating.

[RiverAux]

Absolutely, and no one can give a single example of anything close to the above no happening, which is why these continues conspiracy theories about the WBP are so frustrating.

And your examples to back up this?

But we have units all over the country with large sums of money in the bank who won't spend dollar one because they like seeing the number in the bank.  That's malfeasance.

[Cecil DP]

Absolutely, and no one can give a single example of anything close to the above no happening, which is why these continues conspiracy theories about the WBP are so frustrating.

And your examples to back up this?

But we have units all over the country with large sums of money in the bank who won't spend dollar one because they like seeing the number in the bank.  That's malfeasance.

No, Misfeasence is a National Headquarters cashing out several million dollars in bonds and CD's to finance a NASCAR entry. None of that money was ever recouped. 

BTW: Misfeasence is doing something stupid, Malfeasence is doing something illegal.

[Eclipse]

^ You can't prove a negative.  You show one unit that has had an issue with wing banker as is constantly being insinuated here.

As to the second statement, as I said, I am personally aware of several in my state alone, no I won't name them (duh), and would be willing to bet there's at least one in most states that falls into this category, thus "all over".

[Eclipse]

No, Misfeasence is a National Headquarters cashing out several million dollars in bonds and CD's to finance a NASCAR entry. None of that money was ever recouped. 

Which had nothing to do with Wing Bank, so why even bring it up?

Webster's online does not make much distinction between the two words.

[Cecil DP]

No, Misfeasence is a National Headquarters cashing out several million dollars in bonds and CD's to finance a NASCAR entry. None of that money was ever recouped. 

Which had nothing to do with Wing Bank, so why even bring it up?

Webster's online does not make much distinction between the two words.

1. To show that National is not above wasting money and that the idea of holding onto funds as dispareged in previous posts was not a bad idea.

2. To question why the National Board, The National Comptroller, and Finance Officers at that time allowed such a flood of money ($6-7 Megabucks)to disappear down a hole.


P.S. pend a few bucks to get a dictionary, mal and misfeasence are legal terms, look in a legal dictionary or the OED, not the internet.

[fireplug]

And don't forget the third brother, Non.

[ADCAPer]

You are confusing local action with National Policy.

Yes, unit charters were threatened - not because of the WBP, per se, but because Unit CCs either couldn't be bothered, or failed to comply with a directive from Higher HQ.  That's how it works.  For some reason a lot of people labor under the mistaken belief that CAP is democracy.  Its not.

It wasn't done in 2 days by a long shot.

There is no ongoing effort to "siphon money" by NHQ.  BTW - its all corporate money, they can do whatever they want with it and direct units to do the same.

I was one of the most vocal skeptics of WBP here and elsewhere, to the point of Region telling me my comments had national visibility and to knock it off.

I was wrong and I've admitted it here.

Local implementation should not be confused with the basic program.

I'm sorry, but you're mistaken. I am not confusing anything.

There is no local action that can over-ride national policy. In other words, at the local level you can do what National allows you to do through the regulations, but that's all you can do.

Your claim carries no weight in this case because the original WB plan stated that there would be "no charges" to the units. And the claim that siphoning off the interest from the WB account has always been permitted is just flat out wrong. The ability to confiscate interest was never in the regulations, it was done by a back room deal and not in accordance with the regulations. That's why National is trying to weasel in a loosely worded item in the new regulation that will allow the Wings to ultimately confiscate all interest, and sadly, it appears that most people are okay with allowing that,

And I am sorry, but I do not remember you being on the conference call, which occurred prior to the regulations being revised to allow Wing Banking, when I was told that my unit could surrender our funds or surrender our charter by the end of the week.  In the end the regulations always win, because I'm still here, my unit is still going, and the idiot who offered that option was shown the door.

And as I've said before, yes it is all corporate money, and they can do whatever they want to with it; but the reality is that they can only play that card one time.  I guess I should thank you for the outstanding job of proving why so many people are skeptical of Wing Banking.  I bet that you consider yourself to be more than qualified to review the funds of every other unit in your Wing and determine who can have their funds reallocated to make sure they are fairly distributed to other units. Once again, I can see this happening, but only one time, because then the deposits from local supporters will immediately go away.

[Spike]

I have a Parents Club that "donates" money from a private Checking account.

When I say "donate" I do not mean donate.  We (the Squadron) tell them what we need and they go out and purchase it. 

Questions we all should ask about the financial issues at CAPNHQ....... Where is all the CAP Cares Money??  Why could a Cadet of mine not get their membership paid for them when they got sick, their mom and dad lost their jobs and had no money for dues.  Of course the SQD picked up the membership costs of said Cadet, but we first requested CAP Cares Money.  No response even after sending certified letters to NHQ. 

Second......Why does my Squadrons money all go into the same bank account as every other Squadron in my Wing, yet I have not once seen interest added to the bottom line of my units statement.  Where is that money going?

Wing Banker was invented to get those at NHQ out of trouble.  So that they can say...."see we know where the money is".  Yet it is still difficult to get financial statements from the wing and NHQ.

[FW]

I have no idea why you received no response from NHQ for a CAPCARES grant for your member.  It does seem odd.  Call the CAP/EX and find out (Gina Cone is the administrative assistant).

Your "interest" can be used for administrative costs of the WBP (postage and copying charges) for the wing.  Most interest rates for checking accounts are about 0.1%/year.  If you averaged about $2,000 in your account,  that would amount to $2.00 in interest for the year.  If you need the cash, I'm sure you can work something out with your wing.

NHQ just published complete financials for the preveious year and was presented to the BOG.  It is the most extensive financial disclosure for the public ever.  Each wing is included.  It may be online in the next week or so.

[RADIOMAN015]

I have a Parents Club that "donates" money from a private Checking account.

When I say "donate" I do not mean donate.  We (the Squadron) tell them what we need and they go out and purchase it. 

Second......Why does my Squadrons money all go into the same bank account as every other Squadron in my Wing, yet I have not once seen interest added to the bottom line of my units statement.  Where is that money going?

Wing Banker was invented to get those at NHQ out of trouble.  So that they can say...."see we know where the money is".  Yet it is still difficult to get financial statements from the wing and NHQ.

Well I think you would need to address those specific issues with your wing on financial statement.  I think they basically just send a check register anyways that show what was paid and what your checking account & savings/CD balances are (including what was deposited during the accounting period).

I think overall this entire program will need to be evaluated as far as the COSTS versus the BENEFITS to the membership in the organization 3 to 5 years out.  IF (and that's a big IF at that) in the end the organization gets more donated money (and this is specifically identified due to the unqualified opinion) such as grants, that do flow down to support at the squadron level, than that would be great :clap:

HOWEVER, again I've found that with grant money given, the grantor may have specific reporting requirements anyways (that may include submitting source documents to even obtain payment reimbursement, and not having an unqualified audit statement will NOT impact this type of grant administration.  BTW this does include the AF reimbursement for mission support that does get reviewed/audited.

I think even the AF Audit Agency or Defense Audit Service spends time auditing CAP also as far as the use of federal government funds, which in fact makes up the majority of CAP's budget & expenses anyways.

You have to realize that it is costing the membership more for this UNQUALIFIED audit also, because the sampling requires those accountants to fly out to wings anyways & you are paying them per diem & travel expense also.  Audit fees are something that should be reviewed & negotiated, especially in these trying economic times. 

RM

[FW]

All auditing expenses are paid with "appropriated" funds.  The membership does not pay for it. 
The AF audit agency does spot audits of some wings each year.  This is to provide a sample check of the independant audit.  These audits are paid by the Air Force and does not come from our budget, appropriated or corporate.

Anyway, we do have an complete unqualified audit for the first time in history.  This says much to the "donor community" and, hopefully, will be benifical to all.  Everyone should be proud of this accomplishment and, for those who still cry over some spilled milk, I would suggest you get over it.  The days of "good old boys" and it's "my money" are over.  There will be no going back however, every member has a duty to insure proper complience at all levels.  If there is "mis, mal or non" feasance (Fraud, Waste and/or Abuse), report it. 

Oh, and our FM department at NHQ monitors every transaction via "E Accounting". The WFAs usually spot "mistakes" before things get out of hand.  At this point in time, I think it would be almost impossible for a unit to get the short end of things.

[BillB]

I hope the Wing Bankers have better math than FW has.  a .01% interest on $2000 is $20 NOT $2.00

[IceNine]

Where did you get your math?

Try adding the % sign back in and see what you get.  .1% becomes .001

2000x .001= 2

In your example of .01% we are talking $0.20