Different Types of Suqadrons

[AvroArrow]

I know there are three types (Cadet, Senior, and Composite), but I was wondering if anyone could help me find and/or give me some more defined info than what I already have  :angel:

Here's what I already know:

Cadet - All members are Cadets. All operations are run by cadets. Everything from planning speciali activites to doing cadet promotions and o-flights is planned byan by, and operated by in this squadron is cadets, cadets, and more cadets. You can have SMs in the squadron, but they're "Cadet Sponsers" and usually offer otherwise needed funding and transportation

Senior Squadron - Same thing as a Cadet squadron, but no cadets whatsoever and everything is run by SMs age 18+/21+

Compostie - Cadet and Senior Members. Deputy Commander for Cadets (DCC ?) is directly in charge (as well as the "chief" representative for) of the squadron's Cadets and is also the final say in things involving them (such as special activites, planning their meeting's schedule, etc.) Squadron Commander is responsible for everyone. Yadda, yadda, etc. 


Thanks,
Avro

[RiverAux]

Senior members are regular senior members in cadet squadrons and have official responsibility for everything that goes on.  The extent to which the cadets run things can vary quite a bit depending on the wishes of the squadron commander (a senior) and the cadets you have in it at any particular moment. 

DCC in composite squadron doesn't have final say on cadet issues, at least officially.  Squadron Commander is still in charge.  Now, in real life, the squadron commander may effectively let the DCC pretty much do their own thing. 

[MIKE]

Avro, you're dangerously overstating the level of cadet involvement in a Cadet Squadron... Well, in a well run unit with very competent CP seniors and phase III and IV cadets that's what we want you to think... but still a dangerous overstatement IMO.

I've seen what can happen to units when you let the inmates run the asylum in less than ideal conditions... It ain't pretty.

19. Squadrons. The squadron is the community-level organization of CAP. Wing commanders may activate squadrons whenever there is a minimum of 15 members of the unit, three of whom must be senior members. Whenever the membership drops below these minimums, the wing commander will deactivate the squadron or redesignate it as a flight. The designation of each squadron will indicate whether it is a:
a. Senior Squadron. Comprised entirely of senior members.
b. Cadet Squadron. Comprised primarily of cadets with a minimum of three senior members to meet supervisory, administrative, and training requirements in the conduct of cadet programs.
c. Composite Squadron. Comprised of both senior and cadet members, conducting both senior and cadet programs.
20. Flights. The flight is the smallest CAP membership unit authorized and must contain a minimum of eight members, three of whom must be seniors. Flights should be organized only in sparsely populated areas where there are an insufficient number of individuals to constitute a squadron.
a. A flight may be assigned either to a squadron, group, or wing at the discretion of the wing commander concerned.
b. If the membership drops below the minimum membership required, the flight will be deactivated. If
the membership increases to the minimum required for a squadron, the wing commander will redesignate the flight as a squadron.
c. Flights will use organizational charts established for a squadron of less than 50 senior members as a guide in establishing the unit.

[AvroArrow]

Avro, you're dangerously overstating the level of cadet involvement in a Cadet Squadron... Well, in a well run unit with very competent CP seniors and phase III and IV cadets that's what we want you to think... but still a dangerous overstatement IMO.

I've seen what can happen to units when you let the inmates run the asylum in less than ideal conditions... It ain't pretty.

19. Squadrons. The squadron is the community-level organization of CAP. Wing commanders may activate squadrons whenever there is a minimum of 15 members of the unit, three of whom must be senior members. Whenever the membership drops below these minimums, the wing commander will deactivate the squadron or redesignate it as a flight. The designation of each squadron will indicate whether it is a:
a. Senior Squadron. Comprised entirely of senior members.
b. Cadet Squadron. Comprised primarily of cadets with a minimum of three senior members to meet supervisory, administrative, and training requirements in the conduct of cadet programs.
c. Composite Squadron. Comprised of both senior and cadet members, conducting both senior and cadet programs.
20. Flights. The flight is the smallest CAP membership unit authorized and must contain a minimum of eight members, three of whom must be seniors. Flights should be organized only in sparsely populated areas where there are an insufficient number of individuals to constitute a squadron.
a. A flight may be assigned either to a squadron, group, or wing at the discretion of the wing commander concerned.
b. If the membership drops below the minimum membership required, the flight will be deactivated. If
the membership increases to the minimum required for a squadron, the wing commander will redesignate the flight as a squadron.
c. Flights will use organizational charts established for a squadron of less than 50 senior members as a guide in establishing the unit.

Well, thank you for correcting me, then
I was just under the impression a Cadet Squadron was the exact opposite of a Senior Squadron minus the CC being a SM. Now I know 

Hope I didn't offend you?

[MIKE]

I just don't want you getting the wrong idea.

[AvroArrow]

[Pumbaa]

Compostie - Cadet and Senior Members.

I had to laugh at the typo in the first post....  the thought came to mind that a senior squadron should be a "Compost" squadron   

Sorry, it's been a loooong day... just my twisted humor..

Carry on...

[Tubacap]

Ironically, I just had a good laugh over the word compost about 30 seconds before reading this post!

[notaNCO forever]

I like the analogy of us cadets being inmates in an asylum, seems sadly accurate at times.

[LtCol057]

I think some of the senior members I know should be in the asylum, because they already have the dementia. My self included.

[SJFedor]

I think some of the senior members I know should be in the asylum, because they already have the dementia. My self included.

We put crazy people in asylums. We put old people with dementia in nursing homes. 

[CadetProgramGuy]

I think some of the senior members I know should be in the asylum, because they already have the dementia. My self included.

We put crazy people in asylums. We put old people with dementia in nursing homes. 

Or let them sign up as "Senior" Members....

[♠SARKID♠]

I think some of the senior members I know should be in the asylum, because they already have the dementia. My self included.

We put crazy people in asylums. We put old people with dementia in nursing homes. 

Or let them sign up as "Senior" Members....

Now come on down to the dining hall so you can get your applesauce.

[notaNCO forever]

My states wing HQ is actually at a mental hospital.

[DC]

My states wing HQ is actually at a mental hospital.

Dude... That's just creepy...

[davedove]

My states wing HQ is actually at a mental hospital.

Dude... That's just creepy...

But may be very appropriate.

[LtCol057]

No offense meant, but does that mean your Wing CC has a very short commute? 

[notaNCO forever]

 Nope but jokes have been made to that effect.

[Earhart1971]

I know there are three types (Cadet, Senior, and Composite), but I was wondering if anyone could help me find and/or give me some more defined info than what I already have  :angel:

Here's what I already know:

Cadet - All members are Cadets. All operations are run by cadets. Everything from planning speciali activites to doing cadet promotions and o-flights is planned byan by, and operated by in this squadron is cadets, cadets, and more cadets. You can have SMs in the squadron, but they're "Cadet Sponsers" and usually offer otherwise needed funding and transportation

Senior Squadron - Same thing as a Cadet squadron, but no cadets whatsoever and everything is run by SMs age 18+/21+

Compostie - Cadet and Senior Members. Deputy Commander for Cadets (DCC ?) is directly in charge (as well as the "chief" representative for) of the squadron's Cadets and is also the final say in things involving them (such as special activites, planning their meeting's schedule, etc.) Squadron Commander is responsible for everyone. Yadda, yadda, etc. 


Thanks,
Avro

Unfortunately, way back when, somebody thought it was a good idea to describe the function of the Squadron in the Name of the Squadron.

And it was mandated in the Reg  Organization of CAP.

I think it's a waste of INK.

Just call it a Squadron, first 5 seconds you can tell somebody that you don't do Cadets, and yada yada.

When you add words to the Title of the Squadron you take away the impact of the name.

Flame away.

[DC]

I know there are three types (Cadet, Senior, and Composite), but I was wondering if anyone could help me find and/or give me some more defined info than what I already have  :angel:

Here's what I already know:

Cadet - All members are Cadets. All operations are run by cadets. Everything from planning speciali activites to doing cadet promotions and o-flights is planned byan by, and operated by in this squadron is cadets, cadets, and more cadets. You can have SMs in the squadron, but they're "Cadet Sponsers" and usually offer otherwise needed funding and transportation

Senior Squadron - Same thing as a Cadet squadron, but no cadets whatsoever and everything is run by SMs age 18+/21+

Compostie - Cadet and Senior Members. Deputy Commander for Cadets (DCC ?) is directly in charge (as well as the "chief" representative for) of the squadron's Cadets and is also the final say in things involving them (such as special activites, planning their meeting's schedule, etc.) Squadron Commander is responsible for everyone. Yadda, yadda, etc. 


Thanks,
Avro

Unfortunately, way back when, somebody thought it was a good idea to describe the function of the Squadron in the Name of the Squadron.

And it was mandated in the Reg  Organization of CAP.

I think it's a waste of INK.

Just call it a Squadron, first 5 seconds you can tell somebody that you don't do Cadets, and yada yada.

When you add words to the Title of the Squadron you take away the impact of the name.

Flame away.

I don't think that is necessarily a bad thing, the AF has Fighter Squadrons, and Services Squadrons, etc. I do wish CAP would return to a numbered system, rather than having both a squadron name and a Charter number. Instead of SER-FL-999 you could have the 999th Composite SQ. They could keep an unofficical name, but to me it sounds more professional than the current system, as well as eliminating some confusion, some larger cities have multiple squadrons, with one or more squadrons having the city name in their name, which can and has caused confusion. Plus, its inline with what the AF does, which I think is always a good thing.

[RiverAux]

CAP squadrons have had both a charter number and a name since the early 1950s.  Before that they just names, based on geographic location (Smithville Squadron). 

[DC]

I worded that poorly. I meant go to a numbered system, I know CAP did not do that in the past. My bad.

[RiverAux]

Understood. 

Actually you can have a numbered squadron name if you'd like.  Several wings have all their squadrons named something like "55th Composite Squadron" in addition to their chartered numbers. 

[DC]

Understood. 

Actually you can have a numbered squadron name if you'd like.  Several wings have all their squadrons named something like "55th Composite Squadron" in addition to their chartered numbers. 

Yes, I have seen it done. But I would like to see it as a standardized thing.. Just more professional sounding IMO.

[RiverAux]

Just more professional sounding IMO

Depends on your point of view.  For most of American history many of our military units had geographically-based names.  It wasn't until World War I that we dropped that convention. 

Personally, I am in favor of a numeric system combined with a description of that squadron's primary mission.  Under that I think cadet squadrons would still be called cadet squadrons since the cadet program would still be their primary purpose.  However, composite and senior squadrons would be called something like "99th Rescue Squadron".  Yeah, yeah, I know there are those on this board who think any claim that we actually rescue anyone is invalid.  My alternative would be "99th Reconnaissance Squadron" which would cover SAR, DR, and HLS missions, but would leave out Ground SAR.  To avoid confusion with AF/Air NG units, I could also live with adding in the state name to the squadron's title (like old time militia units), for example "99th Indiana Reconnaisance Squadron" or "99th Indiana Rescue Squadron".

[DC]

^That implies a limit to the capability of a squadron. If you are in the 99th Rescue Squadron, can you participate in Counter Drug missions, or are you limited exclusively to SAR?

[Eclipse]

We are not staffed for operational unit designation, nor do we have enough units left to artificially and unnecessarily limit participation.

Any unit can setup internal teams to do whatever they want, but every unit, including Senior Squadrons, is supposed to participate fully in all three missions.  The fact that this requirement is not enforced properly notwithstanding.

If I were king, they'ed all be composite units and required to operate as such.

The same club mentality which precipitates slacker uniform combinations like shorts for aircrew, or members who look commanders in the face and say "I'm just here to fly, not be bothered with paperwork or cadets..." needs to be quelled, not encouraged.

[RiverAux]

We're not going to find anything that is perfect due to the wide variety of activities we're engaged in.  However, military units are very often used for purposes other than that implied by their name, so its not like it would break any new ground.  

[RiverAux]

If I were king, they'ed all be composite units and required to operate as such.

The same club mentality which precipitates slacker uniform combinations like shorts for aircrew, or members who look commanders in the face and say "I'm just here to fly, not be bothered with paperwork or cadets..." needs to be quelled, not encouraged.

Our existing designations already do that by focusing on the type of member we have rather than what they're doing. 

However, lets face it, "composite" is an absolutely horrible description to go with a unit name.  It means nothing and offers nothing in terms of whatever public relations benefit we can get out of a unit name.  I'm open to a lot of other alternatives, but "composite" stinks worse than senior or cadet. 

[Eclipse]

The lose "senior" and "cadet" and call them all "Squadrons", with the included requirement that they operate that way.

The individual membership designation does not indicate anything about their role or mission.

[RiverAux]

The only problem I would have with them all being generic "Squadrons" or even something like "99th Civil Air Patrol Squadron" is that I really hate 4-digit numbers that go with military unit names and we would have to go into the low 1000s to accomodate all our units.  Who wants to be in the 1111th Squadron?  Also, the generic "squadron" doesn't help us any with public relations.  The current designations, which are mostly geographic-based at least help you link to the local community, which has its advantages, so if we change it at least has to be an improvement.   

[Major Carrales]

Can't say I would favor a "change for change's sake."

Get a load of this...
Corpus Christi Composite Squadron

1) Tells me where the unit is from
2) Tells me we have an active Senior and Cadet Program

What more is needed?  Seems like a person who reads about the Corpus Christi Comp Squadron would know more about the unit from the grography.  Making it some concotion on numbers will say even less than this.

SWR-TX-026

Or as it was before...

42026

That would tell us that we were the 26th Unit of the Southwest Region's Texas Wing.  All things that mean nothing to persons not involved in CAP.  The latter has no significance to anyone and would likely even have CAP Officers from other Wings trying to find out which wing "42" is (shades of D. Adams' Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy  )

Let's leave it as it is.

[Eclipse]

The only problem I would have with them all being generic "Squadrons" or even something like "99th Civil Air Patrol Squadron" is that I really hate 4-digit numbers that go with military unit names and we would have to go into the low 1000s to accommodate all our units.  Who wants to be in the 1111th Squadron?  Also, the generic "squadron" doesn't help us any with public relations.  The current designations, which are mostly geographic-based at least help you link to the local community, which has its advantages, so if we change it at least has to be an improvement.   

No one says you have to use the designator publicly, PCR-CA-001 doesn't mean much on a business card, but "California Wing HQ" does.

The designator is an internal thing, the unit name is external for signage, insignia, etc.

[RiverAux]

Carrales is right in that our current naming system is aimed primarily at telling other CAP members what your squadron does and where its from.  Thats fine as far as it goes, but it doesn't help us market our capabilities to other agencies upon which we depend so much.  I think we can get just a little more value out of our unit names.  

The designator is an internal thing, the unit name is external for signage, insignia, etc.

I couldn't care less about the charter number.  I thought we were talking about unit names. 

[SarDragon]

Just more professional sounding IMO

Depends on your point of view.  For most of American history many of our military units had geographically-based names.  It wasn't until World War I that we dropped that convention. 

Personally, I am in favor of a numeric system combined with a description of that squadron's primary mission.  Under that I think cadet squadrons would still be called cadet squadrons since the cadet program would still be their primary purpose.  However, composite and senior squadrons would be called something like "99th Rescue Squadron".  Yeah, yeah, I know there are those on this board who think any claim that we actually rescue anyone is invalid.  My alternative would be "99th Reconnaissance Squadron" which would cover SAR, DR, and HLS missions, but would leave out Ground SAR.  To avoid confusion with AF/Air NG units, I could also live with adding in the state name to the squadron's title (like old time militia units), for example "99th Indiana Reconnaisance Squadron" or "99th Indiana Rescue Squadron".

Check this out.

c. A proposed name for the unit. Unit names must include the following elements:

1) Identifying prefix - a short identifier, preferably associated with location (example: Shamrock, Dayton, Hot Springs, Midville, etc.). DO NOT use names such as "Black Sheep," "Flying Tigers," etc., or terms descriptive of major functions such as "Communications," "Jeep," or "Rescue," etc.

2) Type of unit (group, cadet squadron, senior squadron, composite squadron, or flight).

3) If the unit is to be named for an individual, the unit must obtain the individual's permission prior to submitting the charter application. If the individual is deceased, permission will be obtained from the nearest living relative. A statement will be typed on the reverse side of the CAPF 27 indicating that permission has been obtained.

4) In addition to the above, the sponsoring organization (if applicable) and a numerical suffix (if needed because of similarity of names) are permitted. Examples of acceptable names are: "Red Oak Composite Squadron," "Midvale Flight," "Miami Senior Squadron No. 2," "Manhattan Group IV," and "Bay City Optimist Cadet Squadron." NOTE: National Headquarters will edit names that are too long and/or contain undesirable elements.

I'm not sure how olde this rule is (at least since 1 May 1998), but it's there now.

[RiverAux]

Yep, thats the one we've been talking about that needs changing (IMHO). 

[MIKE]

Why? Nobody pays any attention to it anyway.

[RiverAux]

Actually, there doesn't appear to be any squadron chartered in about the last 10 years that doesn't follow the squadron naming regulation except for a handful that went with 99th Composite Squadron type names.  The other squadrons were most likely named before that rule was in effect.