The "Don't Hurt your feelings police"

[jb512]

I no longer recommend the forums to cadets.  CAP Officers are another matter.

Yeah, I would not necessarily direct a cadet to this forum unless there was a specific area made for cadets.  The older crowd and cadet officers would relate much better here.  Cadetstuff is much more appropriate.

I think many here lose sight of the fact that people come here for information and to some degree to belong.  There are many here, for what ever reason, that have appointed themselves some sort of DEFENDER of the FAITH.  There are also, as was pointed out to me, certain "cliques" of which it is hard to negotiate if one encounters a problem with fellow cohorts.  Thus, the dogpiles.

That's just human nature.  You can't barge into any group and expect to be one of the guys right off the bat.  When you join any new group of friends you have to work your way in and let people get to know you before you are accepted.  That is not just here, that's everywhere in life.

[JoeTomasone]

The base problem here is "Internet Forum" standards of behavior overriding "CAP Member" standards of behavior.   

I don't think it's intentional - it just is.

I'll be the first to admit that uniform discrepancies bother me.    I do my best each and every time I put on my uniform to have it 100% correct - or as correct as possible under whatever circumstances.   I do this not just to honor the uniform, but because the regulations require it and the oath I took commit me to it. 

So yes, it really bothers me to see people who ignore 39-1 or say they can't read it because it's "too big".    So yeah, I feel a strong urge to take these people to task. 

However, those who say we should correct in private are correct.   I just wish it would work, however we do it.


The two most ignored CAP publications:  CAPM 39-1 and CAPP 151.

[hatentx]

I know in the RM you show up jacked up you are going to hear it.  In CAP I am not going to call out a cadet or SM the same way I am going to one of my PVTs.  I do agree that the ''motovation poster'' may have been much but a simple comment like next time shave isn't that bad.  If you are going to show up to National with a jacked up uniform maybe you should be called out.  Same here if you are going to post a picture and you are not going to be corrected would be a failure by everyone else.  Yes could a PM work yes but if you don't make a fix to an infraction know then people can assume that is the standard.  I will call my troops out of formation or a job correct the uniform or infraction where people know I am looking and upholdong the standards.
As for the post about uniform question I have had a ton.  Just look up my post, and I haven't had one answered unprofessionaly.  I have had people point me to regs and such to encourage me to find the info on my own, which is what a real officer should do before posting a picture of oneself.
Me along with others  are goofy looking and nothing is said about that but what has been addressed is the uniform not the person.

[SarDragon]

Well, let me tell you something - PMs don't help a lot of the time, either. I have sent PMs to various posters about various issues, and the replies have gone from thankful to downright nasty.

Many of the differences we have on CS and CT are based on the priorities of the posters - what's important to each person. For me, on these forums (fora), writing skills are right up there. For many others, that gets a MEGO (My Eyes Glaze Over) reaction. For others uniforms are the hot button, but most of the time, the horse gets pulverized in short order. Then there are the ES wars - another pulverized horse.

The bottom line here is that we frequently need to agree to disagree. You're not going to change my opinion on certain issues, nor am I going to change yours on others. We should be able to present our points of view and receive civil responses. We should be able to address topics with candor, and not get a dogpile in return. Basically - "Lighten up, Francis."

[ol'fido]

Quit worrying about people who post a picture on the forum. Jeez, most of them probably threw something on on and grabbed a digital camera. If you see something at an activity, say something discreetly without being snobbish or smartalecky and then go on. We got work to do, people! Make sure your uniform is correct before you do this and make sure you are telling something that is actually in 39-1. Starching you BDU cap. Are you serious. Gimme a break. The cadet is right.  Put this stuff in perspective and get over it. I was an infantryman in the Desert Storm era and many is the time I came back from the field without having shaved for a day or so, with cammie paint all over my mug, wearing torn, ripped and filthy BDUs and gone over to the shopette for pogey bait and sodas. It was understood that you would not be parade ground polished all the time because we were working!So, stop the snarkey comments every time somebody posts a picture! For the love of mike!

[Stonewall]

I do agree that the ''motovation poster'' may have been much...

Wait...this started because of the motivational poster I threw out there?  Gimmie a break!  I've known that dude longer than a lot of you have been in CAP.  Get over it...he did.

It's kind of like a couple of buddies messin' with each other....gawd, you guys are....

If you have an issue, I have a tissue...

[jb512]

I do agree that the ''motovation poster'' may have been much...

Wait...this started because of the motivational poster I threw out there?  Gimmie a break!  I've known that dude longer than a lot of you have been in CAP.  Get over it...he did.

It's kind of like a couple of buddies messin' with each other....gawd, you guys are....

If you have an issue, I have a tissue...

You know what's sad is that we can't jack with each other here and laugh about it together.  Take the RM, the cop world, firefighers, EMTs, etc.... we all make fun of each other, play jokes on each other, and eventually everyone becomes the brunt of some joke at one time or another.  That builds camaraderie and the only ones who are worried about fitting in are the ones who never end up getting picked on.  I know I have been, and all of the guys on my shift have been at one time or another (some more than others).  If we talk s#$%#%@t about you, then you know you're loved.

If I post a picture on here and someone picks it apart, then I'll reply again and make a joke about it, maybe post an even worse picture, and make it fun.  It's all about being part of a team as weird as it may sound.

At our last choir practice we talked our new K9 handler into wearing his K9 shirt, some UDT shorts and his Navy cranial helmet.  He hauled ass as soon as the camera phones started coming out of pockets...  It's one of those "you had to be there" things, but it was funny...

[Stonewall]

Want to see how the Real Air Force acts on forums?  Go to www.afforums.com.

Post.  Go ahead.  Tell'em Stonewall sent you....

[jb512]

Want to see how the Real Air Force acts on forums?  Go to www.afforums.com.

Post.  Go ahead.  Tell'em Stonewall sent you....

And I haven't earned the right to post in many places there other than the DEPer area, but in a few months I'll be right there in the middle. 

[jb512]

Okay-I am a cadet, and I must say I am appalled by this thread. In our own leadership text it says to correct people privately when possible. If you won't do this out of decency, do it to follow your own organization's guidelines.


Senior Members, I mean this with the highest respect. I apologize in advance if you take offense to my comments.

No offense taken whatsoever, cadet.  I, and many of us in this discussion were once cadets too.  There is no need to be appalled, this is what happens when you get old and crusty; you develop opinions.  They're like... everybody has one... nevermind.

Rather than be taken aback by people speaking their mind, I'd concentrate on forming your own views on subjects and interjecting where you feel comfortable.  It's just a normal process of being old like us.

[CadetProgramGuy]

Hey folks!!

Ok so my "shave" comment wrinkled a few brows....  Get over it.

Let me share with you why I post little things like that.

I served in the Army. 4 Years.  Advanced Communications attached to a MP unit.

If I even thought of walking past my CO without saluting, there were ramifications.  A uniform violation? Unthinkable.

Your uniform is a direct relationship on how you live your life.  Attention to details is key. 

If you choose to let one little thing go by the wayside, and get away with it, then next time you will try harder to get away with more.

Shine your boots, iron your uniform.  Look like you give a crap, because in that uniform you don't just represent yourself.  You represent me and everyone that is a fellow member of CAP.

[SJFedor]

Okay-I am a cadet, and I must say I am appalled by this thread. In our own leadership text it says to correct people privately when possible. If you won't do this out of decency, do it to follow your own organization's guidelines.


Senior Members, I mean this with the highest respect. I apologize in advance if you take offense to my comments.

No offense taken whatsoever, cadet.  I, and many of us in this discussion were once cadets too.  There is no need to be appalled, this is what happens when you get old and crusty; you develop opinions.  They're like... everybody has one... nevermind.

Rather than be taken aback by people speaking their mind, I'd concentrate on forming your own views on subjects and interjecting where you feel comfortable.  It's just a normal process of being old like us.

I dunno, I think the cadet really has a point there.

By all means, those of us on the board that know each other, we do take shots at one another in the name of humor and fun. While this can look bad/mean to those outside the group, we should make efforts to make it blatently obvious that it is, in fact, in jest.

However, and we've ALL seen it before, when someone harshly calls someone out, and i'm not just talking about "hey, i think you might have some of the things in the wrong order. 39-1 says that CAP pilot's wings go above those ribbons, not below", but the "dude, you look like trash, you're a crappy human being, you should go home, burn your "uniforms" and ID card, and be gone" type remarks, which unfortunately do happen, really need to not. At least, they need to not happen in public view.  There's standards of conduct here, and not just because of what rules the Admins and Mods have set, but the fact that this is an open forum representing CAP, comprised of CAP members (and some lurkers), and when those comments get made, it A) makes the person saying them look like a horse's six, and B) makes us all look like a bunch of tools.

But YMMV. This is just my opinion at 3am. 

[jb512]

Hey folks!!

Ok so my "shave" comment wrinkled a few brows....  Get over it.

What's funny is that you said it, but I got beat down for backing you up.  Next time it's your turn to take one for the team. 

Okay-I am a cadet, and I must say I am appalled by this thread. In our own leadership text it says to correct people privately when possible. If you won't do this out of decency, do it to follow your own organization's guidelines.


Senior Members, I mean this with the highest respect. I apologize in advance if you take offense to my comments.

No offense taken whatsoever, cadet.  I, and many of us in this discussion were once cadets too.  There is no need to be appalled, this is what happens when you get old and crusty; you develop opinions.  They're like... everybody has one... nevermind.

Rather than be taken aback by people speaking their mind, I'd concentrate on forming your own views on subjects and interjecting where you feel comfortable.  It's just a normal process of being old like us.

I dunno, I think the cadet really has a point there.

By all means, those of us on the board that know each other, we do take shots at one another in the name of humor and fun. While this can look bad/mean to those outside the group, we should make efforts to make it blatently obvious that it is, in fact, in jest.

However, and we've ALL seen it before, when someone harshly calls someone out, and i'm not just talking about "hey, i think you might have some of the things in the wrong order. 39-1 says that CAP pilot's wings go above those ribbons, not below", but the "dude, you look like trash, you're a crappy human being, you should go home, burn your "uniforms" and ID card, and be gone" type remarks, which unfortunately do happen, really need to not. At least, they need to not happen in public view.  There's standards of conduct here, and not just because of what rules the Admins and Mods have set, but the fact that this is an open forum representing CAP, comprised of CAP members (and some lurkers), and when those comments get made, it A) makes the person saying them look like a horse's six, and B) makes us all look like a bunch of tools.

But YMMV. This is just my opinion at 3am. 

Nobody called anyone a crappy human.  Someone just asked for the decency of a shave before they put a uniform on.  People just need to relax.

[Hill CAP]

I do agree that the ''motovation poster'' may have been much...

Wait...this started because of the motivational poster I threw out there?  Gimmie a break!  I've known that dude longer than a lot of you have been in CAP.  Get over it...he did.

It's kind of like a couple of buddies messin' with each other....gawd, you guys are....

If you have an issue, I have a tissue...

If its the same poster that I am thinking of its of me in the TPU without a white V-Neck T-Shirt.  Yea I took it personally for all of about 2 minutes long enough to realize that Stonewall was joking around.

And that I needed to go buy some new V-Necks which I did problem fixed and no one got hurt.

[CadetProgramGuy]

Hey folks!!

Ok so my "shave" comment wrinkled a few brows....  Get over it.

What's funny is that you said it, but I got beat down for backing you up.  Next time it's your turn to take one for the team. 

Open for team taking.....

[jeders]

Call me unresourceful and lazy, (which I admit that I am a lot of times, especially when using the internet) but some of the topics that I've started and/or responded to got some real overreacted responses. I asked a question about shoulder cords, and got called off by not using the terminology "Class A and B" instead of "Service (Dress) Uniform..." and I ahve some pretty rude PMs to prove it    Also, I've learned to just busily read through the 39-1 despite its length to avoid some social rejection and (in my mind, immature) name-callings/making fun of from CAPTalk.

This is one of the best posts I've seen. This is exactly why some of us on here and CS react with the seemingly cruel responses. Because everyone needs to know that there are actual publications out there that tell you how to do things. Don't just take our word for things, go look it up so that 1.) you know the answer, 2.) you know where to find the answer, and 3.) you know where to point others to find the answer.

Once more, call me "thin skinned," but, and maybe it's just me, CAP members, both Cadet and Senior alike, should be stern and straight-foward with lazy people such as myself rather than rude and malevolent.

Avro   

One man's stern and straight-forward is another man's rude and malevolent.

Now, should we maybe use a little more tact at times, such as going to PM or such, maybe. But mostly, people in CAP need to just grow thicker skin. Which leads me to my next question for cadets, if you can't handle being told to look something up instead of being given an answer, then how are you surviving high school?

[Major Carrales]

This is one of the best posts I've seen. This is exactly why some of us on here and CS react with the seemingly cruel responses. Because everyone needs to know that there are actual publications out there that tell you how to do things. Don't just take our word for things, go look it up so that 1.) you know the answer, 2.) you know where to find the answer, and 3.) you know where to point others to find the answer.

I must disagree.  We are obligated to guide the new CAP Officers and Cadets.  There are some of us located in isolated places and that do not have the experience necessary (and many times local experienced personnel to guide them) to simply "look it up."  Sending people blindly to the regs and pubs is inviting misinterpretations.

Thus, be helpful and answer the questions...be a guide...or, if not, people need to shut the "collective pieholes" when those people misinterpret and go and do something that the simple answer would have prevented.

If you are all here to fight ignorance in CAP, then do your job and answer their questions.  If not, you risk being part of the problems that sparked this thread.   CAP Regs, after all, are full of inconstancies and are not clear.  That is why people are asking the questions to begin with.

[B.Kahuna]

I don't think a lot of you realize that your tone can be misinterpreted on the internet. For example, while Stonewall may have not meant any harm by his motivational poster, to somebody skimming through the forums, it looks like dogpiling.

[davedove]

This is one of the best posts I've seen. This is exactly why some of us on here and CS react with the seemingly cruel responses. Because everyone needs to know that there are actual publications out there that tell you how to do things. Don't just take our word for things, go look it up so that 1.) you know the answer, 2.) you know where to find the answer, and 3.) you know where to point others to find the answer.

I must disagree.  We are obligated to guide the new CAP Officers and Cadets.  There are some of us located in isolated places and that do not have the experience necessary (and many times local experienced personnel to guide them) to simply "look it up."  Sending people blindly to the regs and pubs is inviting misinterpretations.

Thus, be helpful and answer the questions...be a guide...or, if not, people need to shut the "collective pieholes" when those people misinterpret and go and do something that the simple answer would have prevented.

If you are all here to fight ignorance in CAP, then do your job and answer their questions.  If not, you risk being part of the problems that sparked this thread.   CAP Regs, after all, are full of inconstancies and are not clear.  That is why people are asking the questions to begin with.

I have to agree with the good Major here.  It's fine and dandy to say "check the regs" but for a lot of new CAP members, they have no idea where to look.

Gently guide those seeking advice.  Let them know the appropriate reg, then explain what it says.

[heliodoc]

Squadrons used to have 3 ring binders for ALLLLLLL those regs in the past

Not everyone has access to a computer or laptop and YES to all those CAP members that have said "go look it up"   Guess we'll all be carrying laptops including those cadets who may or may not have one

Pretty soon at Sqdn meetings... " everyone open up your laptops, we are going to interpret 39-1 for tonites meeting"

And YES  once and for all get that lousy 39-1 UPDATED with all the current ICL's Next thing you know we'll have an ICL on the wear of a mock turtle neck and how to wear that

Isn't there one of those in the inventory, yet???