Winter 2008 National Board Agenda

Started by JC004, February 07, 2008, 05:50:52 AM

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NEBoom

#40
Quote from: NERMA002 Safety on February 07, 2008, 09:35:22 PM
Quote from: DNall on February 07, 2008, 09:32:36 PM


And what's up with 187k for a GT comp? Did I read they're actually considering that? That's a waste in a big way.

Why is a competition a big waste?  It gives us a chance to learn how other people are doing the job at the same time as we try and see who's the best.  A little competition never hurt anyone.

I was a Cadet back in the '80s, and a young S'Member in the early '90s, and remember SARCOMP well.  Was all for it when it first came about.  Figured just like you do.  Sharpens everyone up, etc.  I found that the opposite actually occurs.  You don't get to see how anyone else does things because you're working through all the various problems yourself all weekend.  At the same time other teams are going through other problems, and "never the twain shall meet."  It's just a function of how the schedule has to be set up to get everyone through all the problems.

I also noticed that everyone gets very tight-lipped about their tips, tricks, techniques, etc because they want to keep whatever advantage they might have for competition.  So it actually stifles the free flow of information and ideas.  

Along this same line, people also had trouble understanding where competition between units began, and more importantly where it ended.  "Competition mentality" constantly crept into the other non-comp SAREXes and even operational ("real") missions!  Issues with the comp itself (fairness, judging, rules, etc.) led to a lot of bad blood between some of us that took years to rectify.  I know it sounds all over-dramatic but yes, all this and more actually happened between units and individuals in my Wing back in the day.

Bottom line, "SARCOMP suck" (think Superbowl ad, "Wheel suck.  Bottle opener suck."  :D).  They were fun to go through, but the issues they caused were not worth it.  All this is IMVHO, of course.

I did actually like the idea of putting a team through a set of problems over the course of the weekend, and I even don't object to being scored on how well you do.  That part of it was very instructive to me as a SQ/DOS back then.  Gave me a great reading on where I needed to put emphasis on training for the next year.  But I do feel that any scores tallied should be for the team's use only.  We got into trouble when we started trying to determine who was "best."  ES isn't a game afterall.

As for the $187k, IMHO it could be better spend on almost anything else (if we even have the $187k to blow).  Like funding for training to get us all NIMS compliant maybe?  Everyone seems to think this will cost next to $0, but the skeptic in me doubts that.  If not for initial NIMS training, how about funding a large-scale exercise or two so we can get some experience using the full Incident Command System?  Both would be far more beneficial than a SARCOMP.

Again all this is IMHO and YMMV and all the other caveats and disclaimers people use to avoid being flamed.  Just want to share some hard-won experience, that's all.
Lt Col Dan Kirwan, CAP
Nebraska Wing

Smokey

As I recall hearing while listening to the NB when the SARCOMP was proposed, they seemed to have likened it to the Air Force's RED FLAG which is held at Nellis AFB.

Well, although there is a bit of competition attitude, it's really about training....to quote the Nellis website....414th Combat Training Squadron (Red Flag): The 414th CTS conducts exercise scenarios that maximize the combat readiness and survivability of participants by providing a realistic training environment. Since combat is no place to train aircrews, Red Flag provides a peacetime "battlefield" within which our combat air forces can train. Inside this battlefield, aircrews train to fight together, survive together and win together.

Transferring that to CAP....we should conduct exercise scenarios that maximize SAR readiness and survivability  of participants by providing a realistic training environment.  Sounds like a SAREX but it would be on a bigger scale involving numerous Wings and each exercise progressively more difficult in the same vein as Red Flag.
If you stand for nothing, you will fall for anything.
To err is human, to blame someone else shows good management skills.

FW

I also agree it would be better to spend our limited funds on large scale guided training exercises than a national SARCOMP.  

We could use the lessons learned from previous large scale missions and experiment with new techniques and technologies without the pressures of evaluations or compitions with other "teams".  

It would probably cost less to send our best trainers/educators to sites than sending everyone to a single site.  However, even if the cost were similar, we're looking at an average expense of $3600 per wing or $23,000 per region.

I think the NB will be spending some time on this issue.  

JohnKachenmeister

Quote from: jkalemis on February 07, 2008, 06:55:56 PM
Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on February 07, 2008, 06:02:04 PM
The new patch is worse then the last one.  Can't we go back to the old one that said "US Air Force Auxiliary?"  I plan to wear mine as long as I can get away with it.  If the PAO in Nevada can show up on National TV with the old round patch on her flight suit, I can keep the old command patch until I lapse into senility.  That's only a few years away, anyhow.

She also had gawdy large earingas the first day.  Are you going to wear those too?

;D

Only on Saturday Night.  Besides, don't ask, don't tell!
Another former CAP officer

cnitas

Does anyone have the 'attached copy' of the auditor's memo for agenda item #7?

I am an accountant and Col Weiss's recommendation has merit.  I am not sure how it would jepordize an unqualified audit.

The memo would perhaps help enlighten me.
Mark A. Piersall, Lt Col, CAP
Frederick Composite Squadron
MER-MD-003

sarmed1

LT Col Abegg discusseed this "SARCOMP" idea when we were getting spun up for the SARSCENE games in Canada.  The theory was that each wing would hold its own competeition, then each region, and the region winners would go to the national SARCOMP, the winning team going onto the SARSCENE games and conference as the CAP representitive.  I dont know if that $187,000 is supposed to involve the cost of teams going from the Wing level up through the National level, including the SARSCENE games.

mk
Capt.  Mark "K12" Kleibscheidel

mikeylikey

^ Lets take that $187,000 and split it up between everyone and lower membership dues! 

Everyone would save just around $4.00 per year!

OR lets use that money to buy every member one new patch from Vanguard.

OR lets use that money to get every Corporate vehicle inspected.

Or lets use that money to buy every SQD 4 orange safety vest

The possibilities are endless. 

WHAT would you DO with $187,000
What's up monkeys?

RiverAux

$4 each, eh?  How about send us all the fancy new ID card for free?

mikeylikey

What's up monkeys?

JohnKachenmeister

I don't want a photo ID.  I got plenty of photo ID.  Put my $4 toward a beer after a mission. 

THAT would improve my morale and attitude!
Another former CAP officer

Tubacap

William Schlosser, Major CAP
NER-PA-001

FW

Quote from: mikeylikey on February 09, 2008, 03:29:32 AM
^
WHAT would you DO with $187,000

That kind of cash would go pretty far.  Maybe an RV or a M20J, a nice winter palace in Florida,  A garage in California....   You're right the options are endless... ;D
Unfortunately, since the money is part of our annual "grant", the Air Force won't allow it.
neither will they allow the photo id's, the beer (well, maybe the beer), or patches from Vanguard.  But we can dream now, can't we?

JAFO78

How about using some of that money to help start new squadron's around the country, sort of seed money. It could be used to off set costs of membership and uniforms for kids who could use a little help.

Just my .2
JAFO

ColonelJack

Quote from: RobG on February 12, 2008, 07:58:02 AM
How about using some of that money to help start new squadron's around the country, sort of seed money. It could be used to off set costs of membership and uniforms for kids who could use a little help.

Just my .2

It'll never happen that way.  The idea makes sense, therefore, it'll never fly.

Jack
Jack Bagley, Ed. D.
Lt. Col., CAP (now inactive)
Gill Robb Wilson Award No. 1366, 29 Nov 1991
Admiral, Great Navy of the State of Nebraska
Honorary Admiral, Navy of the Republic of Molossia

mikeylikey

Has anyone sent up proposals directly to their Wing Kings for inclusion in "New Business"?  I sent a freaking ass huge list.  I will see what kind of lame commander he really is. 

Some things I suggested......

1)allow "other than black" boots to be worn with BDU's and BBDU's
2)all of the uniform suggestions in the now defunct NHQ uniform committee thread
3)getting rid of all Hawk MTN bling except for the school patch (and mandate its wear on the pocket, not the sleeve)

I hope others do the same!  If we get enough pressure on OUR leadership perhaps they will do what we want for a change!
What's up monkeys?

John Bryan

WOW.....all this issues facing CAP and so many people want to focus on hats, boots and hawk mtn patches. I hope the wing commander and national leadership will focus on the real problems facing CAP

Dragoon

Quote from: mikeylikey on February 12, 2008, 04:41:12 PM
Has anyone sent up proposals directly to their Wing Kings for inclusion in "New Business"?  I sent a freaking ass huge list.  I will see what kind of lame commander he really is. 

Some things I suggested......

1)allow "other than black" boots to be worn with BDU's and BBDU's
2)all of the uniform suggestions in the now defunct NHQ uniform committee thread
3)getting rid of all Hawk MTN bling except for the school patch (and mandate its wear on the pocket, not the sleeve)

I hope others do the same!  If we get enough pressure on OUR leadership perhaps they will do what we want for a change!

Not sure what you mean by "lame commander."  I hope you don't mean that if he disagrees with you, then he's automatically "lame."

arajca

Quote from: John Bryan on February 12, 2008, 08:42:30 PM
WOW.....all this issues facing CAP and so many people want to focus on hats, boots and hawk mtn patches. I hope the wing commander and national leadership will focus on the real problems facing CAP
Amen.
Here's a crazy idea - a blanket approval on regulation updatesNOT involving policy changes e.i. laws change so the regs need to be updated, or updates incorporating policy changes made by the NB/NEC. The new CAPR 35-5 is being changed to incorporate the cahnges made at previous NB/NEC meetings. Why should it have to be approved? This approval would probably cut down on 30+% of the NB routine stuff.

Here's another one: Electronic approvals for other routine stuff. Picture a special website restricted to NB and NEC members. They receive a monthly email or snail mail packet of proposed simple changes. For the four week period following the mailing, the changes are up for comment. After that period ends, the changes are up for a vote for one week. This could easily cover the routine, administrative type stuff. Majorpolicy decisions would be reserved for the in-person meetings.

mikeylikey

Quote from: Dragoon on February 12, 2008, 09:05:41 PM
Quote from: mikeylikey on February 12, 2008, 04:41:12 PM
Has anyone sent up proposals directly to their Wing Kings for inclusion in "New Business"?  I sent a freaking ass huge list.  I will see what kind of lame commander he really is. 

Some things I suggested......

1)allow "other than black" boots to be worn with BDU's and BBDU's
2)all of the uniform suggestions in the now defunct NHQ uniform committee thread
3)getting rid of all Hawk MTN bling except for the school patch (and mandate its wear on the pocket, not the sleeve)

I hope others do the same!  If we get enough pressure on OUR leadership perhaps they will do what we want for a change!

Not sure what you mean by "lame commander."  I hope you don't mean that if he disagrees with you, then he's automatically "lame."

YOu don't know the situation in PAWG so I will let your comments slide  ;D
The guy has not sent one email,  held one open meeting, or visited any SQG or GRP.  He is lame in terms of he does NOTHING. 
What's up monkeys?

DNall

One of the key suggestions in that uniform cme thread was to extract the uniform process from NB/NEC to a seperate appointed uniform board. The NB/NEC would just have to vote up or down on one package every 4 years. Chgs to the AF reg would tranistion automatically with admin of wear out dates & such taken care of at NHQ.

That takes the issue off the table so they are forced to focus on other things.