Unit Financial Liabilities to a Member?

[RADIOMAN015]

Here's a question:

You get authorized to buy something for your unit, that exceeds what is in your unit's bank account balance.   Can the unit set up the invoice to do a partial payment, and carry the rest as an accounts payable, and than pay off the member a bit every month as unit funds become available

RM

[lordmonar]

No.

Your unit cannot speak for the corporation in that sense.

The unit financial committee cannot commit more funds then it has in the wing banker.

They should go to wing and see if any wing funds can be used to make the purchase.

[Ed Bos]

Another option is to pass the hat around the squadron & get the money before the purchase is made.

[Eclipse]

No.

[EMT-83]

If you can't afford it, you don't need it.

[PHall]

Another option is to pass the hat around the squadron & get the money before the purchase is made.

Not an option under Wing Banker.

[cap235629]

Another option is to pass the hat around the squadron & get the money before the purchase is made.

Not an option under Wing Banker.

Seriously?

Hey I am going to get some pizza, everyone chip in.

NO, we have to request the funds through Wing Banker!

You are reading way to much into the Wing Banker Program.

How about this.

We need to purchase a new TV for the cadets to watch training videos on.  The TV costs $300.  The squadron passes the hat and the Finance Committee chair deposits the money in the bank and requests a check to purchase the TV.  All deposits and checks are tracked through Wing Banker.

Where is the problem exactly???

[lordmonar]

Well....properly in all cases.....you would donate the money to CAP and get a receipt for any personal funds you give to CAP.

Sure you can go out and buy anything and then get Wing Banker to pay for it afterwards.

In this case you can't because CAP will be paying for half and you would be paying the other half....and expecting CAP to pay you back from unit funds that don't exist.  That is the part that you can't do.


Now you can always donate your half to CAP.....get a receipt. 

[MSG Mac]

These are just some of the minor problems with the WB program.

[Eclipse]

^ That's unacceptblae and not typical.  My wing processes WBP checks within a week, holidays or other personnel issues notwithstanding.

In a lot of cases the delay is because of Units that take forever to process paperwork, or wait until meetings for wet signatures.

[Ed Bos]

There is nothing in the Wing Banker program that prohibits an individual from donating either money or equipment to CAP. There is also nothing that prohibits several people joining together to donate funds or equipment to CAP.

Ergo, if the members of a squadron decide their unit needs a new projector, they can purchase one and then donate it to CAP.

That has less to do with Wing Banker, or the 173-1, more to do with donations and the 173-4.

[Patterson]

One simple way around Wing Banker (as in not using it at all) is to have a wife or husband or patent chair a "friends of Squadron xx" booster club.

Let every single financial matter go through that group. It is like the system before WB, and is legal as long as the Members themselves don't serve on the booster club. 

We create a zero balance budget at the Squadron, and complete all the required paperwork as per Finance Regulations, but not a single penny is ever deposited into the "units" wing banker account.

For CYA purposes, make sure a simple one page incorporation statement is created by your booster club and the people listed as running it are not CAP!!

Your Squadron needs a new television, send a written letter to your booster club asking for a television (make sure everything you do is in writing as verbal conversations can be contested by Wing Commanders if they do not like you!!). Then your booster club buys a television, gives it to the Squadron with a letter stating "no receipt required, donation will not be used for tax purposes".

To be honest Wing Banker does not benefit the average Member or Squadron, just the opposite!  It is impracticle to expect a member to front the responsibility to pay for materials and equipment then wait for reimbursement.  It does not matter if reimbursement takes five days or five weeks.  The only advantage of Wing Banker is to the Corporation so that they may recieve better accounting/fiscal responsibility ratings and get better rates on investments and operating lines of credit if needed. 

Also, if running a "coffee fund", always place a sign on the donation can that says "please donate to the Friends of Squadron xx Booster Club". Then you can legally charge for coffee!

[Ned]

The only advantage of Wing Banker is to the Corporation so that they may recieve better accounting/fiscal responsibility ratings and get better rates on investments and operating lines of credit if needed. 

Really?  Is that the only advantage?

Well, since failure to be able to adequately account for the taxpayer funds provided by Congress to the CAP would mean the end of the funding and CAP itself, I suppose I will just have to struggle through the requirments to account for corporate funds.  (Which, BTW, are pretty much the same requirements used by every other non-profit that receives significant federal funding.)

Personally, I think of as (roughly) 20,000,000 good reasons to have Wing Banker.

BTW, the land of Booster Clubs is not all that rosy.  Donations made to such clubs are normally not tax-deductable and filing that "one page incorporation statement" you describe creates a whole host of problems.  Corporations have to file tax returns, have regular meetings with minutes, etc.  Failure to file required tax returns or comply with corporate laws ususally results in personal liability for corporate officers and directors for significant fines even if the corporation would not have owed any taxes in the first place.  And of course, the IRS has been know to get fairly nasty with corporations, directors, and officers for unpaid taxes and/or false claims of "deductability", etc.

Your Squadron needs a new television, send a written letter to your booster club asking for a television (make sure everything you do is in writing as verbal conversations can be contested by Wing Commanders if they do not like you!!). Then your booster club buys a television, gives it to the Squadron with a letter stating "no receipt required, donation will not be used for tax purposes".

Umm, not quite.  As generous and kind as that donation of a television would be, no donation of property over $250 can become CAP property until and unless it is accepted by the Wing Commander (as a CAP corporate officer), an official receipt is issued, and gets put on the unit's official inventory so it can be safeguarded and accounted for like all other corporate property.  See CAPR 173-4 for additional guidance.

[Eclipse]

The mental hoops people will go through just to avoid imaginary problems never ceases to amaze me.

[a2capt]

Wing Banker isn't anything different than a bank, except that it makes the Corporation happy. It's still deposited in a bank, it's still the unit's funds. If someone has absolute solid proof, with all the documents to support it from both sides, that Group, Wing, Region or National invaded someones account and just took the money, without any supporting reason then cough it up. Otherwise it's all he-said-she-said imagination.

[Spaceman3750]

My unit recently ordered squadron T-shirts. We had the company give us an estimate and put in a check request written to that company for the amount quoted. With a minimal amount of foresight we avoided having a member front $500.

[Eclipse]

My unit recently ordered squadron T-shirts. We had the company give us an estimate and put in a check request written to that company for the amount quoted. With a minimal amount of foresight we avoided having a member front $500.

Wait.

Are you suggesting a little planning and maybe, oh... management is a viable solution vs. brute forcing everything at the last minute?

No way.  Much better to do everything in the least resistant way possible and then complain when things don't go as expected.

[NIN]

Wait.

Are you suggesting a little planning and maybe, oh... management is a viable solution vs. brute forcing everything at the last minute?

No way.  Much better to do everything in the least resistant way possible and then complain when things don't go as expected.

Funny how that works.

WBP came in during my last tour as a squadron commander.  Everybody complained mightily, but we never had a problem with it as long as we planned in advance.

And that was the thing: the people who had the biggest issue with WBP seemed to be the ones who planned about to their fingertips.

[Fubar]

If my squadron put it's funds in a bank, we'd earn interest. Do we earn interest with the WBP? Or does the wing earn interest on all the squadron's balances (which might be a decent amount).

[SarDragon]

Typically, the olde squadron accounts were business/organizational accounts, which did/do not earn interest. I'm sure the WBP accounts are similar. As a 501(c)3, interest bearing accounts complicate things in the IRS arena, requiring much more reporting. I went through similar issues as a treasurer in a 501(c)4, and the paperwork got so cumbersome that we switched accounts to bus/org.