Commissioning Questions

[PHall]

One of squadron members joined the Guard under a similar program as described by the OP (enlist, finish school, go to OCS).  Problem is, he never got to OCS.   The Guard is very political and, right wrong or other (I say wrong), they never got him there.   Now, he tried to push the issue as much as he could but keep in mind it's a delicate line to walk.  Once commissioned, those people you may've had to push or hurdle, may now be subordinates or elsewhere in your chain of command...and that can make for "interesting" dynamics, especially in the Guard. 

I didn't know we were in the same unit?!?

This is my story almost to a tee.  I joined the Guard with the purpose of going to their state OCS.  After I swore in, I found out how political the Guard was and because I was not there for a given period of time It wasnt fair to those who had dedicated more time in the Guard, The following year they didn't have money and didn't host an OCS.  I tried to get a conditional release to go back to the navy reserve and mobilize for deployment, my request went all the way to the TAG...My request was denied and a Colonel came to meet me in person and told me that "They were going to make me happy in the Guard"  So I finished my enlistment and would never recommend the guard to anyone.  The Guard effectively ended my military career.

How did they "end your military career"? Give you a bad RE code? Something is missing here...

And the Guard, even in a big state like California, is like a small town. Everybody knows your business...

[SARDOC]

How did they "end your military career"? Give you a bad RE code? Something is missing here...

Well, No.  I ETS'd with an RE-1.  I was incredibly amazed with how disorganized the guard was.  I knew my future wasn't in the Guard.  I switched to the Guard with the intent of their commissioning program, passed the Guard Commissioning Physical, then they selected with other candidates who had more time in the Guard.  They Wouldn't send me to MOS school because I was going to commission into a different branch and didn't want the expense of shipping me away to school.  Their plan was to send me to a mos school that they held in state the following fiscal year (the Same time of the next OCS) so they decided that I would attend the appropriate school after OCS...They cancelled that OCS due to budget concerns.  The same budget concerns cancelled the MOS school...So now Two years in the Guard Non MOSQ because they had no money for school, making me ineligible for promotions (they didn't accept either of my Navy NEC's)...Then my last year in the Guard, they told me that because I was not MOSQ that would make me not eligible for OCS...and because I was within my last year of my enlistment they could not send me to MOS school unless I extended or Reenlisted.   My Agitation meter was spinning.  My intent was to get out of the Guard and go back to the Navy.  In the Meantime the Navy changed their policy making all new members to the reserve even prior service go through and get a MEPS physical.  I had agreed to even drop a paygrade and go to MEPS...Did not make it through the Physical because of a Service Connected Disability.  MEPS doesn't have different standards for new entry or prior service.  Made the attempt for a Waiver and BUMED gave it a No Go.  I could have stayed miserable in the Guard or just get out....Therefore, the Guard effectively ended my career.

So Yes..there was more to the story.  I didn't think it was necessary in my other comment to go into such detail.

Got out RE1, they gave me the Army Reserve Component Achievement medal (Their version of Good Conduct)...and that's that.

[PHall]

The Guard giving priority to folks with more "seniority" is nothing new. It's their way of rewarding "loyality".
And I know that at least on the ANG side, you need at least 36 months of retainability before they can send you to a MOS/AFSC producing school.
They need to be able to get a return on their training dollars. It's that way in any school tour.

Trying to come in "off the street" and get the good deals just doesn't happen.

[JK657]

I can only speak for California but I came in "off the street" did the Officer Candidate program and had absolutely no issues. I was proactive during the entire process. I made sure all my documents were up to date, my PT score was high and I made contact with my Officer Liaison every week. If you want something bad enough you can make it happen.

[SARDOC]

See that's the Thing...I was already prior service and was recruited specifically for the officer candidate program.  It was in my enlistment contract, but that didn't keep them from disregarding it.  When I submitted the paperwork to be released from the Guard so that I can go back to the Navy reserve to my former unit.  I got a big lecture about my commitment to the Guard, and the Colonel got a lecture on the Guard's contractual commitment to me and I was told "That we are going to make you happy in the Guard"   The ARNG only required 12 months obligation for MOS schools.  But I was not going to reenlist or extend into an organization in to which I had absolutely no trust.  I wasn't "coming off the Street for a good Deal"  This was the deal I made to even come into the guard.  If it was their policy that someone had to a given amount of time before being considered for OCS I would have understood and did what I needed to do.  This was not the information provided by the Recruiter, Who also told me that my two Navy NEC's would convert to the Guard...Which they did not.  My experience with the guard is that they were disorganized and lacked integrity. 

[A.Member]

The moral of the story is, like anything else:  caveat emptor.

[SAR-EMT1]

Here's how it works:

You "enlist" in the Army Guard. When you sign your contract there will actually be a paragraph on your contract saying: "I am signing up as an Officer Candidate. If I fail to complete OCS I will have the option of discharge or staying in or going to AIT and being enlisted". (thats not word for word but you get the idea)

Your MOS will be: 09S-Commissioned Officer Candidate

Usually your branch of service (infantry, MP, etc) won't be confirmed until right before, during or after OCS. Each state does it different. I could be based on openings, abilities, etc.

Expect that if you want to be an Infantry Officer you will have to be Ranger qualified. That has pretty much become the standard. There are exceptions but that is what I am seeing.

Here is a great website run be experts on the topic:http://www.armyocsng.com/portal/index.php

Do not be afraid of "enlisting" to go to OCS. The program is already in place and there are checks and balances to ensure you aren't getting messed over by an shady recruiter. I entered this program at 28 years old. I was not thrilled that I had to go to Basic Training but in the end I was so glad I did. I was never truly "enlisted" but the experiences I got at BCT were amazing and definitely put me ahead of my ROTC peers.

I am currently wrapping up a deployment in the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan as a Military Police Platoon leader who 4 years ago was in your exact same shoes. It can be done!

I will take this info to the recruiter, I have another meeting Weds. If the MOS paperwork happens to say 11-B instead of 09-S should I run for the hills ?

[JK657]

Your primary MOS should read: 09S
There will be 2 "alternate" MOSs listed but that is because the system requires 3 choices. Do not get freaked out by that. Its just a computer thing. The main thing is that as part of enlisting as an 09S you will have that paragraph in your contract that I mentioned.

The website that I sent you has tons of information from people that are or were in your exact position. It is definitely worth it to check it out.

What state are you in?

[PHall]

See that's the Thing...I was already prior service and was recruited specifically for the officer candidate program.  It was in my enlistment contract, but that didn't keep them from disregarding it.  When I submitted the paperwork to be released from the Guard so that I can go back to the Navy reserve to my former unit.  I got a big lecture about my commitment to the Guard, and the Colonel got a lecture on the Guard's contractual commitment to me and I was told "That we are going to make you happy in the Guard"   The ARNG only required 12 months obligation for MOS schools.  But I was not going to reenlist or extend into an organization in to which I had absolutely no trust.  I wasn't "coming off the Street for a good Deal"  This was the deal I made to even come into the guard.  If it was their policy that someone had to a given amount of time before being considered for OCS I would have understood and did what I needed to do.  This was not the information provided by the Recruiter, Who also told me that my two Navy NEC's would convert to the Guard...Which they did not.  My experience with the guard is that they were disorganized and lacked integrity.

Well, if that's your attitude towards the Guard then staying away seems to be your best option.

The Guard is like many other things, it's what you make it.

[SARDOC]

Well, if that's your attitude towards the Guard then staying away seems to be your best option.

The Guard is like many other things, it's what you make it.

That was the same conclusion I reached.  The thing about the Guard, is that it varies from state to state and just like the Active duty military from Unit to Unit.   While I see Guard units that are every bit as good or better than their active duty counterparts, the units I were assigned to couldn't pour piss out of a boot if the directions were written on the heel.  They still owe my money for 12 drill periods...it's been over five years.  I get the feeling I will never see that money.    I showed up to Drill Weekend and was greeted with "Good Morning Sergeant, What are you doing here?" That required the interrogative..."Here for Drill Weekend...why do you ask?"  Apparently Since I was not MOSQ and they started a New infantry unit at a different armory they decided to transfer people into the unit to staff it up...without telling any of them.  I lived relatively close so it wasn't that big of a deal, but when I got there late, as well as other guys who had to drive completely across the state who showed up really late...There were more than a few upset people.  Communication was horrible I could go on and on.  But it's obvious it's not like that anywhere.  I'm glad your experience with the guard was better.  I had higher expectations, got great evaluations, the CO was pressuring me Heavily to reenlist. He was a disappointed and as frustrated as I was about my situation.  I would've gotten promoted and and a nice reenlistment bonus...If I was MOSQ.

[coudano]

They still owe my money for 12 drill periods...it's been over five years.  I get the feeling I will never see that money.    ... I would've gotten promoted and and a nice reenlistment bonus...If I was MOSQ.

so what was stopping you from getting yourself to school and getting qualified?
when i've seen that before, it seems like it's been on the soldier/airman, and not so much on the guard.

how many times have we seen a sharp troop who we wanted to promote, but COULDNT because they hadn't kept on top of their own box checking...

and yeah, dfas makes some stupid mistakes, but if its been 5 years, you're never going to see that money
statute of limitations probably even ran out by now if you wanted to try and make a case about it.
however, 12 drill periods (as in 3 months?)  yah that's probably not enough money to sweat on the long term.  make peace with that and move on with life.

[SARDOC]

so what was stopping you from getting yourself to school and getting qualified?
when i've seen that before, it seems like it's been on the soldier/airman, and not so much on the guard.

how many times have we seen a sharp troop who we wanted to promote, but COULDNT because they hadn't kept on top of their own box checking...

and yeah, dfas makes some stupid mistakes, but if its been 5 years, you're never going to see that money
statute of limitations probably even ran out by now if you wanted to try and make a case about it.
however, 12 drill periods (as in 3 months?)  yah that's probably not enough money to sweat on the long term.  make peace with that and move on with life.

Going to school wasn't me.  I was willing to go to any school they had.  If you read some of my posts above you can see some of the challenges that I faced.   Except for the last year of my enlistment...that was on me, because I knew I wanted out of this organization at that time.  I wasn't about to extend my enlistment to go to some BS school and I'm glad I didn't.  If I did extend I would have been caught by the Stop Loss order that was issued two weeks after my ETS.  I was trying to make it back to my Old Navy aviation unit so that I could deploy with them  and get my career back on track.

As far as the pay issue...I was being sarcastic...I wrote that pay off a long time ago,  Yes, it was three months of drill weekends after I was transferred.  They never changed my mustering/report location.  I was still showing up on the roster for my old unit who I think was marking me UA while I was actually drilling with my new assigned unit,  The problem was eventually corrected but not the back pay.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

The Guard is like many other things, it's what you make it.

The Guard has all kinds of people...and I encountered most of those types.

Some (most I encountered) are as squared-away and good-to-go as anyone on the Active or Reserve sides.  They just want to do their job and do it the best they can with a minimum of fuss and bother.

Some are frankly jerks...I'm thinking of a certain personnel TSgt of my acquaintance years ago...

The Guard has people who tend to serve in the same unit for a long time.  That has good and bad sides.  If they're good people, you look forward to seeing them.  If they're jerks, well...

[coudano]

Some are frankly jerks...

no, no jerks in the active duty...   ?

[RADIOMAN015]

The Guard is like many other things, it's what you make it.

The Guard has people who tend to serve in the same unit for a long time.  That has good and bad sides.  If they're good people, you look forward to seeing them.  If they're jerks, well...

Don't ya think that Civil Air Patrol is another perfect example of what you both say above
RM

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

no, no jerks in the active duty...   ?

That went flying right past me.

RM: CAP is sort of an example of that, except that you can quit anytime or switch units at will.  You can't do that in the Guard.  Also, if one of the proverbial "jerks" gets a bug in their bonnet about you and has the rank to make your life miserable, there's not a great deal you can do about it.