Commissioning Questions

[SAR-EMT1]

I am on track to finish a BS by returning to school in the fall of 2012. I have made this decision based on the fact that recently I was informed that I have been medically cleared to resume my efforts to obtain a commission. ( I was AFROTC from 03-05 and put on a medical hold )

In paying a visit to my former Det I was told by the Maj in charge of admissions that I would be unlikely to be selected for Field Training - hence a commission if I attempted to reenter ROTC. Reasons being:

1) AFROTC reportedly only accepting 40-45 % of sophmores to FT . ( And the Active Duty OTS currently at a complete standstill) Due to an excess of applicants to the commissioning programs since 2009. Those who are accepted for a commission are almost all students in a technical or proffessional degree.

2) I am currently 26 and would be 28 when I finish a BS. Current AFROTC cut off is 29. (went down from 35 earlier this year) Hence my age would be a " strike" against me when my file would be reviewed by the selection board at the Holm center.

Now I talked with an Air Guard recruiter who informed me that at present they are only commissioning applicants (Via McGee-Tyson ) who have already completed a BA/BS. The Air Guard is currently offering NO financial support to those like me who wish to complete a degree and then commission.

Finally I have talked with an Army Guard recruiter who told me a program currently exists whereby I could enlist as an E-4, attend Basic and then proceed immediately into a state OCS program whereby I could complete a Bachelors while attending OCS in the state capital. on alternate weekends " in lieu of" drilling monthly at a local armory.  The cost of the Bachelors would be covered under the G.I Bill as I would be listed as an E-4 while in OCS ( much like ROTC) although ROTC Seniors are paid as E-5's.



I honestly never planned on going Army. However it looks as though my options to get a butter bar with the Air Force as nonexistent.
So I have two questions for those on the forum with experience as Officers or as recruiters:

1) Are there any USAF options  I am unaware of ? (That would offer financial assistance while completing a BS)

2) If I accepted the Army offer ( they would commission me into the Guard as an Infantry Platoon Leader)
Could I eventually work my way over the the active duty Air Force, The Air Force Reserve OR the IL Air Guard ?


Any help is appriciated.

PS: My initial plan back in 03-05 was to go active Air Force in Missiles for my initial obligation and then switch to the Air Guard and finish 20 years. I  Would still like to do 20 years, though not necessarily with an Active duty unit.

[MSG Mac]

1. No one is going to offer financial aid without a signed committment
2. The ARNG's offer of tuition assistance Is it State Tuition Waiver or the Reserve GI Bill?
3. What degree are you obtaining?
4. Have you talked to the Air National Guard about the possibility of transferring once you get the ARNG.

At 28 you're going to be at a disadvantage in an Infantry unit (In my opinion the only ones in an Infantry company over 25 should be the CO or the 1SG). Try to get an appointment in another field MI, AG, Supply, etc , Most of the Infantry officers will be looking for those slots when they are Captains, hoping to be Majors. Beat them to the slot. 

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Have you talked to the AFRES?

Is there an ANG unit in another state near you?  Each state has some flexibility in their admission standards.

Have you thought of going the Warrant Officer route (except that leaves out the USAF)?  A Warrant Officer is still an officer.

If you go the ArNG route to "get your foot in the door," you may be able to do a lateral transfer to the ANG, depending of course on the unit's staffing needs.

Have you checked your State Military Department directory for AGR positions?  Admittedly, those are not plentiful.

[sandman]

Don't forget to look at the NOAA corps (or US Public Health service).

www.noaa.gov

www.usphs.gov

[Al Sayre]

JMHO, but no matter what you choose, if it's one of those "enlist now commission later" deals, be absolutely 100% certain that you read and understand ALL of the fine print in your enlistment contract.  If there is something you are unsure of, it's better to pay a lawer a couple hundred dollars to go through it with you, than be locked into an enlisted contract because of "the needs of the service" when you joined to be an officer.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Don't forget to look at the NOAA corps (or US Public Health service).

www.noaa.gov

www.usphs.gov

The USPHS provides most medical care for the Coast Guard.

I once considered the NOAA Corps, but was ineligible.  I believe that once you are commissioned with them your first duty as a new Ensign is a year at sea.

I also don't believe either of those have reserve components, nor are either of them under the UCMJ, except when USPHS officers are attached to the USCG.

[coudano]

I agree, where in Illinois are you?

I am on track to finish a BS by returning to school in the fall of 2012.

You may need to wait until then to apply, particularly to the Air Guard.
Remember if you join the Army, you may be pushing your graduation back, unless you can coordinate your basic training over a summer.

I have made this decision based on the fact that recently I was informed that I have been medically cleared to resume my efforts to obtain a commission. ( I was AFROTC from 03-05 and put on a medical hold )

Congrats!

In paying a visit to my former Det I was told by the Maj in charge of admissions that I would be unlikely to be selected for Field Training - hence a commission if I attempted to reenter ROTC. Reasons being:

1) AFROTC reportedly only accepting 40-45 % of sophmores to FT . ( And the Active Duty OTS currently at a complete standstill) Due to an excess of applicants to the commissioning programs since 2009. Those who are accepted for a commission are almost all students in a technical or proffessional degree.

2) I am currently 26 and would be 28 when I finish a BS. Current AFROTC cut off is 29. (went down from 35 earlier this year) Hence my age would be a " strike" against me when my file would be reviewed by the selection board at the Holm center.

Probably, yes.  AFROTC is pretty ugly right now...

Now I talked with an Air Guard recruiter who informed me that at present they are only commissioning applicants (Via McGee-Tyson ) who have already completed a BA/BS. The Air Guard is currently offering NO financial support to those like me who wish to complete a degree and then commission.

Air Guard commissionees no longer go to McGhee Tyson...
AMS is now at Maxwell AFB along with OTS.

It's fairer to say that the Air Guard IN YOUR STATE is only accepting applicants who have already completed a BA/BS.  In reality, the units with officer positions posted will take applicants and board them, and hire whoever they pick from the board.  It is not unheard of for the Air Guard to commisison non prior service off the street.  However without the recruiter's help it's going to be difficult or impossible for you to see a list of available officer positions, and board dates.

I have even seen someone get picked for commissioning in the air guard who hadn't quite finished their degree yet.

It's going to be true about financial aid though, and you also aren't going to get GI bill or loan repayment.  those are 'enlistment' benefits, officers don't get such perks.  The best you (might) be able to do would be a cash bonus for stress career field, but even those are pretty much non existent at the moment.

Finally I have talked with an Army Guard recruiter who told me a program currently exists whereby I could enlist as an E-4, attend Basic and then proceed immediately into a state OCS program whereby I could complete a Bachelors while attending OCS in the state capital. on alternate weekends " in lieu of" drilling monthly at a local armory.  The cost of the Bachelors would be covered under the G.I Bill as I would be listed as an E-4 while in OCS ( much like ROTC) although ROTC Seniors are paid as E-5's.

Yeah and the catch here is:
1) if you fail to obtain your degree you are 'stuck' as a private in the Army
2) if you fail to complete Army guard OCS you are 'stuck' as a private in the Army

This includes injuries or any other lame excuse like family emergencies.

I honestly never planned on going Army. However it looks as though my options to get a butter bar with the Air Force as nonexistent.

Your chances will be better after you hold your degree.

So I have two questions for those on the forum with experience as Officers or as recruiters:

1) Are there any USAF options  I am unaware of ? (That would offer financial assistance while completing a BS)

Your commissioning paths for the USAF are:
-USAFA
-AFROTC
-OTS (active duty or reserves)
-AMS (air guard)

2) If I accepted the Army offer ( they would commission me into the Guard as an Infantry Platoon Leader)  Could I eventually work my way over the the active duty Air Force, The Air Force Reserve OR the IL Air Guard ?

You would be applying for an open billet just like anyone else.
Already being commissioned might work in your favor (the unit wouldn't have to pay to send you to commissioning school).  I've seen enlisted guys cross green to blue, but I can only think of one officer that I know who has done it, and he's a lawyer...

[sandman]

Don't forget to look at the NOAA corps (or US Public Health service).

www.noaa.gov

www.usphs.gov

The USPHS provides most medical care for the Coast Guard.

I once considered the NOAA Corps, but was ineligible.  I believe that once you are commissioned with them your first duty as a new Ensign is a year at sea.

I also don't believe either of those have reserve components, nor are either of them under the UCMJ, except when USPHS officers are attached to the USCG.

As you know, the US Public Health Service is a bit more than just a medical care service ( USPHS Professions ) and has student scholarship opportunities ( JR COSTEP/SR COSTEP ). The US Coast Guard is just one of the service opportunities for USPHS officers.

There is in the works a reserve component for the USPHS, part of the plan from the current President.
USPHS Ready Reserve
USPHS "Bling" for uniform buffs

Flight training in the NOAA Corps (P3's, Helos, etc) is a career progression step following your initial three year sea tour. Ships usually go out for a couple of months and head back to port...not like the extended sea tours in the Navy!
NOAA Career Fields
NOAA "Bling" for uniform buffs

Good luck!

[SAR-EMT1]

1. No one is going to offer financial aid without a signed committment
2. The ARNG's offer of tuition assistance Is it State Tuition Waiver or the Reserve GI Bill?
3. What degree are you obtaining?
4. Have you talked to the Air National Guard about the possibility of transferring once you get the ARNG.

At 28 you're going to be at a disadvantage in an Infantry unit (In my opinion the only ones in an Infantry company over 25 should be the CO or the 1SG). Try to get an appointment in another field MI, AG, Supply, etc , Most of the Infantry officers will be looking for those slots when they are Captains, hoping to be Majors. Beat them to the slot.

1. Understood.
2. A 50/50 mix.
3. A BS in Management.
4.  Transferring to the Air Guard is definitely something I would be interested in doing ( It isn't that I don't like the Army, but I have a lot of family ties to the Air Force) The Air Guard recruiter didn't mention transferring. He basically said, that I should come talk to him once my degree was done. I would like to know if transferring is even possible.

As to the Infantry... the ANG recruiter I spoke with strongly supported my going Infantry, based on my comment that I wanted to put in 20 years in the Guard. He left me with the strong impression that in the IL-ARNG officers in the combat arms had far better luck at getting Field Grade promotions / positions than did support types. ( The Recruiter was attached to a TRANS unit) Of course, I personally have no experience with this.
- If I can transfer into the Air Guard I would like to do so.

[SAR-EMT1]

Don't forget to look at the NOAA corps (or US Public Health service).

www.noaa.gov

www.usphs.gov

Although I am a paramedic, I would not be a candidate for PHS as they look specifically for those with an MD/PA/ or RN background, or one with experience with medical research aka Epidemiology...



t is my understanding that NOAA CORPS only accepts those who already have a degree, and that the degree need be in the sea sciences. - Zoology, marine engineering, meteorology etc...

My degree ( Management ) would not be a good fit.

[SAR-EMT1]

Have you talked to the AFRES?

Is there an ANG unit in another state near you?  Each state has some flexibility in their admission standards.

Have you thought of going the Warrant Officer route (except that leaves out the USAF)?  A Warrant Officer is still an officer.

If you go the ArNG route to "get your foot in the door," you may be able to do a lateral transfer to the ANG, depending of course on the unit's staffing needs.

Have you checked your State Military Department directory for AGR positions?  Admittedly, those are not plentiful.

As far as Warrant Officer- The only WO positions in my area are for Aviators. I do not meet the requirements given my vision. ( I wear glasses)... which is unfortunate as there is a VERY active blackhawk unit a stones throw down the road.

[sandman]

Don't forget to look at the NOAA corps (or US Public Health service).

www.noaa.gov

www.usphs.gov

Although I am a paramedic, I would not be a candidate for PHS as they look specifically for those with an MD/PA/ or RN background, or one with experience with medical research aka Epidemiology...



t is my understanding that NOAA CORPS only accepts those who already have a degree, and that the degree need be in the sea sciences. - Zoology, marine engineering, meteorology etc...

My degree ( Management ) would not be a good fit.

While a degree in a science field is "preferable", don't be too quick to count it out.
Eligibility Requirements

Maybe consider reaching for your graduate degree in Healthcare Administration, a follow on for the management field and a commission in the US Public Health Service. Consider the Jr COSTEP and Sr COSTEP program to help fund your graduate education.

Keep up the good work!

[SAR-EMT1]

I agree, where in Illinois are you?

I am on track to finish a BS by returning to school in the fall of 2012.

You may need to wait until then to apply, particularly to the Air Guard.
Remember if you join the Army, you may be pushing your graduation back, unless you can coordinate your basic training over a summer.

I have made this decision based on the fact that recently I was informed that I have been medically cleared to resume my efforts to obtain a commission. ( I was AFROTC from 03-05 and put on a medical hold )

Congrats!

In paying a visit to my former Det I was told by the Maj in charge of admissions that I would be unlikely to be selected for Field Training - hence a commission if I attempted to reenter ROTC. Reasons being:

1) AFROTC reportedly only accepting 40-45 % of sophomores to FT . ( And the Active Duty OTS currently at a complete standstill) Due to an excess of applicants to the commissioning programs since 2009. Those who are accepted for a commission are almost all students in a technical or professional degree.

2) I am currently 26 and would be 28 when I finish a BS. Current AFROTC cut off is 29. (went down from 35 earlier this year) Hence my age would be a " strike" against me when my file would be reviewed by the selection board at the Holm center.

Probably, yes.  AFROTC is pretty ugly right now...

Now I talked with an Air Guard recruiter who informed me that at present they are only commissioning applicants (Via McGee-Tyson ) who have already completed a BA/BS. The Air Guard is currently offering NO financial support to those like me who wish to complete a degree and then commission.

Air Guard commissionees no longer go to McGhee Tyson...
AMS is now at Maxwell AFB along with OTS.

It's fairer to say that the Air Guard IN YOUR STATE is only accepting applicants who have already completed a BA/BS.  In reality, the units with officer positions posted will take applicants and board them, and hire whoever they pick from the board.  It is not unheard of for the Air Guard to commission non prior service off the street.  However without the recruiter's help it's going to be difficult or impossible for you to see a list of available officer positions, and board dates.

I have even seen someone get picked for commissioning in the air guard who hadn't quite finished their degree yet.

It's going to be true about financial aid though, and you also aren't going to get GI bill or loan repayment.  those are 'enlistment' benefits, officers don't get such perks.  The best you (might) be able to do would be a cash bonus for stress career field, but even those are pretty much non existent at the moment.

Finally I have talked with an Army Guard recruiter who told me a program currently exists whereby I could enlist as an E-4, attend Basic and then proceed immediately into a state OCS program whereby I could complete a Bachelors while attending OCS in the state capital. on alternate weekends " in lieu of" drilling monthly at a local armory.  The cost of the Bachelors would be covered under the G.I Bill as I would be listed as an E-4 while in OCS ( much like ROTC) although ROTC Seniors are paid as E-5's.

Yeah and the catch here is:
1) if you fail to obtain your degree you are 'stuck' as a private in the Army
2) if you fail to complete Army guard OCS you are 'stuck' as a private in the Army

This includes injuries or any other lame excuse like family emergencies.

I honestly never planned on going Army. However it looks as though my options to get a butter bar with the Air Force as nonexistent.

Your chances will be better after you hold your degree.

So I have two questions for those on the forum with experience as Officers or as recruiters:

1) Are there any USAF options  I am unaware of ? (That would offer financial assistance while completing a BS)

Your commissioning paths for the USAF are:
-USAFA
-AFROTC
-OTS (active duty or reserves)
-AMS (air guard)

2) If I accepted the Army offer ( they would commission me into the Guard as an Infantry Platoon Leader)  Could I eventually work my way over the the active duty Air Force, The Air Force Reserve OR the IL Air Guard ?

You would be applying for an open billet just like anyone else.
Already being commissioned might work in your favor (the unit wouldn't have to pay to send you to commissioning school).  I've seen enlisted guys cross green to blue, but I can only think of one officer that I know who has done it, and he's a lawyer...

1. I live in Douglas County and work in Macon County.

2. If I went the Army route I have been told I could do BMT in June/ July of 2012 prior to returning to school.

3. The Air Guard NCO I spoke with specifically mentioned McGhee-Tyson, whether he was uninformed, lying or lazy I don't know. As to commissioning off the street, given what I was told about needing a complete BA/BS I would assume that wouldn't be possible. Again, I don't know if he was lazy, lying or uninformed...

The ILANG does list current openings for both officer and enlisted on the website for the individual wings ( 3 of them) An F-16 wing, a C-130 wing, and a KC-135 wing.

As for financial aid as an Officer: The IL Guard Education package is offered to enlisted members AND Company Grade Officers both.
This is separate from the GI Bill and covers 100% tuition for 8 semesters at any public school in the state. It would also retroactively cover 50% of any existing student loans. Room and board fees are not covered.

In the case of an officer ( assuming one already has a BA/BS ) the package would cover an MS/ MA / MBA   OR  LAW / MED SCHOOL

[RADIOMAN015]

3. A BS in Management.

It's a waste of taxpayer's money to sponsor anyone getting a very soft degree such as management.  Maybe certain languages, and selected technical degrees deserve support.  There's plenty of enlisted personnel who already know the ropes that can fill in quite readily with management degrees they have earned in company grade officer positions.

Unfortunately, the military services are going to have a large cut back in the future.  There will be much less need for new accessions either enlisted or officer.

Good luck!
RM   

[sandman]

Although I am a paramedic, I would not be a candidate for PHS as they look specifically for those with an MD/PA/ or RN background, or one with experience with medical research aka Epidemiology...

Again, I invite you to consider continuing your education in Healthcare Administration (MS) or look at altering course towards a BS degree as a Registered Health Information Administrator (RHIA) or Post-Bacc Certificate as RHIA, both commission-able in the USPHS (as well as other services).

The Junior COSTEP program will commission you as an Ensign while you are in school. You would serve on paid internships during school breaks in various service units. The Senior COSTEP program will allow you to finish your last year in school, in whatever program you've selected, as an active duty Ensign with full pay and benefits. Upon graduation, you are advanced to Lieutenant Junior Grade.

Also, don't be too afraid of developing student loan debt. There is relief for those willing to apply. Here is one example (yes, for RHIA too): Loan Repayment Program example.

"Hwa is thet mei thet hors wettrien the him self nule drinken" Old English Homily circ 1175
or
"You can lead a horticulture, but..." Dorothy Parker

Best wishes and Merry Christmas!

[coudano]

1. I live in Douglas County and work in Macon County.

Yeah so you could maybe check out Indiana as well
(although even if you get a job in the Indiana guard, you aren't going to get illinois state tuition assistance) you might get a job/commission though...

We have guys who come from across the country into our unit, it doesn't have to be in YOUR state.

//same goes for reserve units...  i know people who quite literally go across the country for their reserve unit.

2. If I went the Army route I have been told I could do BMT in June/ July of 2012 prior to returning to school.

Yah cool.  Enlisted basic and ait doesn't take very long (14 weeks?)
My state has a 1 year program where you do OCS (army) on 12 weekend drills and 2 weeks AT instead of your typical drill schedule.  You graduate at the end as a 2d Lt and get shoved into some infantry unit at an armory in the far corner of the state.

Air Guard doesn't do anything like that though, you gotta go do 6 weeks of AMS.

3. The Air Guard NCO I spoke with specifically mentioned McGhee-Tyson, whether he was uninformed, lying or lazy I don't know.

Yah maybe any of those things, or some combination of all of them.
Nevertheless, AMS is at Maxwell.  There is no question about that.
Guard AMS, and *NCOA are still at McGhee Tyson.

It makes me wonder if you are necessarily talking to the "right" person?
Maybe just some dude talking...  or maybe he MEANS the right thing and the wrong thing is just coming out of his mouth as a force of habit (it WAS at Mcghee Tyson for YEARS)

Each wing in the ILANG should have its own recruiting and retention office,
and each of those offices should have its own officer recruiting specialist.
I'd make sure you are approaching the recruiters in each of the wings.  approach them separately.
Make sure you are talking to the single correct person.
Don't just talk to "whoever answers the phone in the storefront" or whatever.


//Even better is if you know someone *IN* one of those units you want to join who knows of a vacancy and heads up you to apply.


You could go ahead and do some things, like go take the AFOQT.
And of course, make sure you can pass the AF PT test.


/IF/ you get selected, and get an AMS date, let me know, I can heads up you on some things

As to commissioning off the street, given what I was told about needing a complete BA/BS I would assume that wouldn't be possible. Again, I don't know if he was lazy, lying or uninformed...

Well in the guard we have a saying...
where there's a will there's a way (waiver?)
I can introduce you to someone (real life person) who just got selected for commissioning about 3 weeks ago who is still a couple semesters from finishing his degree.  Not from Illinois though   End of the day, the commanders hire who they want.  Actual qualification sometimes takes a second seat to that...

The ILANG does list current openings for both officer and enlisted on the website for the individual wings ( 3 of them) An F-16 wing, a C-130 wing, and a KC-135 wing.

Ok so a couple of different lists...
One list is the full time positions (AGR and Technician)
That's typically what you are going to find, when you go looking.

There is a different list that shows the vacancies on the unit manning documents, that probably only your recruiters are going to have, or the units themselves who might be hiring.  I doubt this is publicly available on the internet...

Also it's fairly atypical for the air guard to be "full up" on officers...  MOST states have empty officer billets.  They are usually professional officers (doctors, lawyers, nurses, clergy, pilots)

That F16 wing isn't really an F16 wing...  (not the way you think of it)

As for financial aid as an Officer: The IL Guard Education package is offered to enlisted members AND Company Grade Officers both.
This is separate from the GI Bill and covers 100% tuition for 8 semesters at any public school in the state. It would also retroactively cover 50% of any existing student loans. Room and board fees are not covered.

Wow that's a better package than we have here.  We just get state tuition assistance.
And even that is going away in a couple of months because of budget cuts.
But yeah "all guardsmen" will get that in their respective state.

In the case of an officer ( assuming one already has a BA/BS ) the package would cover an MS/ MA / MBA   OR  LAW / MED SCHOOL

In most cases it's only good for a BA though, and not for advanced degrees.  just depends on the laws in your state.  If that's the deal you get, then rock on!!!

[Spaceman3750]

The F16 wing lost its flying mission and the birds went to Indiana (I think?). Now there's an ABM component and an engineering squadron on base, as well as SF and an F16 engine repair shop. There's also a CAP squadron "on base". The fire department shut down in October.

We were very unhappy to lose the 183rd's flying mission. I miss those F16s flying over town.

[davidsinn]

The F16 wing lost its flying mission and the birds went to Indiana (I think?). Now there's an ABM component and an engineering squadron on base, as well as SF and an F16 engine repair shop. There's also a CAP squadron "on base". The fire department shut down in October.

We were very unhappy to lose the 183rd's flying mission. I miss those F16s flying over town.

And we lost the F-16's you sent us. Now the 181st in Terre Haute is an intel wing and the 122nd in Fort Wayne is transitioning from Vipers to Hawgs.

[PHall]

The F16 wing lost its flying mission and the birds went to Indiana (I think?). Now there's an ABM component and an engineering squadron on base, as well as SF and an F16 engine repair shop. There's also a CAP squadron "on base". The fire department shut down in October.

We were very unhappy to lose the 183rd's flying mission. I miss those F16s flying over town.

And we lost the F-16's you sent us. Now the 181st in Terre Haute is an intel wing and the 122nd in Fort Wayne is transitioning from Vipers to Hawgs.

Be happy you still have a manned aircraft mission. They could have gotten a UAV or even a non-flying mission!

[davidsinn]

Be happy you still have a manned aircraft mission. They could have gotten a UAV or even a non-flying mission!

It's too bad they lost the Vipers. They had an air defense role. They put a CAP over Chicago on 9-11. Flew right over my high school about 1430 that afternoon to get there. Scared the poop out of everyone until I pointed out that the sound was of Pratts in Vipers. Unfortunately, all but a handful of the 163rd FS/122nd TFW Vipers have been AMARC'd

[PHall]

Be happy you still have a manned aircraft mission. They could have gotten a UAV or even a non-flying mission!

It's too bad they lost the Vipers. They had an air defense role. They put a CAP over Chicago on 9-11. Flew right over my high school about 1430 that afternoon to get there. Scared the poop out of everyone until I pointed out that the sound was of Pratts in Vipers. Unfortunately, all but a handful of the 163rd FS/122nd TFW Vipers have been AMARC'd

Soon to be QF-16 Targets.

[flyboy53]

It's been 1994 since I wore a recruiter hubcap, so my advice to you may be a little skewed because some criteria has most certainly changed, but here it goes.

First, you never said what type of degree you are working toward, so I'm not sure why some of the guys offered things like NOAA or USPHS. Those commissioning opportunities are very limited and relate to health/medical or science career fields.

Second, the advice that you received is correct about the Army, because the Army -- espcially the National Guard -- will commission officers with associate degrees. Then you have to complete a bachelors degree while still a lieutenant in order to be promoted beyond the rank of captain. Most of the people in this program are infantry or special forces officers.

The Air Force Reserve used to commission nurses with associate degrees and chaplains with a total of 120 sememster hours of college credit. The reason why the difference is because chaplains were recommended from by asponsoring faith conference, hold a grade of second or first lieutenant while in seminary, and then are appointed to captain when they graduate from seminary.

You may not know that nurses, doctors, physician assistants, nurse practitioners, and lawyers are not commissioned in the Air Force, they're appointed.

That said, the last time I heard a cut off age of 29 was for those candidates who were seeking rated or missile duty. You may want to go back to the recruiter and see if that is the general age cut off for everything or just rated duty. You may want to select non-rated, and go for something like Security Forces, SERE, TACP, or Combat Comptroller, if those opportunities exist and you are thinking about something combat related.

Third, any program that you chose -- with the exception of the Army National Guard -- is going to require you to enlist in the grade of E-3 or E-4, and serve as an enlisted man. complete the degree, and then apply for commissioning. Things like direct to OTS or OCS are going to require a degree first. The Air Force Reserve would take enlisted applicants from the field and grant commissions once they have completed the AFR/ANG Officer Preparatory Course (which by the way was almost the same exact course as the old ECI CAP Officer Course) and met all of the other commissioning requirements.

No one mentioned the Marine Corps. The USMC used to have the Platoon Leader Program were you were enlisted as a Reseve E-4/E-5, continued in college but served during summer, and were commissioned a second lieutenant

So, at this stage of the game, things like ROTC are out of the picture and you are left with those opportunities like OTS or OCS which are going to require a degree first; a state National Guard Military Academy; or things like Marion Military Academy were you attend a junior college and are actually commissioned a National Guard second lieutenant.

One other thing to know is that all of the military services can be very selective and you will need to ask yourself the question of what is your ultiamte goal. In my own case, I turned down an Army commission and entered the Air Force as an enlisted man. I was actually a slick sleeve with a bachelor's degree and I found myself first in security forces (which I never regretted). I applied for commissioning three times. The first time, I was turned down because I had a non-technical degree. The second time, I was turned down because I was returning from overseas after a tour that involved exposure to top secret and extremely sensitive information (the real Cold War) and was actually barred from pograms like OTS because of some sort of security regulation that I can't quote now. By the third time, I was simply too old.

I left active duty, entered the Air Force Reserve as a Palace Front assignment, completed a masters degree, and was actually recalled to active duty for another seven and a half years, ending my career as a master sergeant. Do I regret never being commissioned, not really. There's a lot more prestige among the senior NCO Corps; and at that stage of the game, I found myself having to babysit brand new second lieuteants (I can tell you some interesting stories), and I began to resent that those same junior officers started their careers with an attitude that looked down upon even senior NCOs...especially a senior NCO with more education and experience.

That was personal and not meant to disuade you from your goals. I'm just trying to be realistic with you, so you may need to re-evaluate your goals and shop around for that program that best fits your goals...then be prepared, it may not be the Air Force, and you may be required to consider a really gutsy program that will test you to your limits in order to achieve that "butter bar."

[Cliff_Chambliss]

Over the last few years (and Safety Officer /Asst Chief Instructor Pilot at the Maxwell AFB Aero Club), I have talked with more than a few USAF types being given a choice between Blue to Green (transferring to the Army) or hitting the street.  However, I have met very few Army types that were able to transfer into the USAF.
In my 24 years active duty (Army), I recall a section in the enlistment contract that clearly states that the needs of the service must be met and all promises or guarantees can be waived to meet the needs of the service.  Important enough that we were aked to initial that line and state we understood it.

[coudano]

Guard AMS, and *NCOA are still at McGhee Tyson.

So what I meant to say here was Guard ALS (airman leadership school)
Simple typo.
but it could also be the same mistake your recruiter made.

[lordmonar]

This is all a sign of the time.

The USAF is downsizing.....
The Economy sucks......
Recruiters are meeting their quotas....

This all means that they are closing up the window of accessions.

I have a Cadet who graduated last year...he tried to join the Marines....the recruiter told him they are ONLY allowed to recruit from high school seniors and prior enlisted.

It sucks...but that's the way it is.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

The USAF is downsizing.....

In some ways...in terms of fighter-interceptor units, which is a bad thing.  The F-22 has been capped, and the F-35 seems like the airplane that is always just out of reach.  Stripping so many Guard units of their fighter-interceptor role (Illinois, Missouri, Indiana, Michigan, New York) and either re-roling them to attack units with upgraded A-10's (Indiana's 122nd, Michigan's 127th), nonflying missions (Indiana's 181st, Kansas' 184th) or RPV (New York's 174th) is a very bad idea.  There may be no more USSR, but that does not mean we don't need air defence.  Emphasis seems to be on the A-10 because of Afghanistan, and as much as I like the bird (a buddy of mine bent wrenches on them at DMAFB for several years), it is not a fighter (I don't understand calling units flying the Hog "fighter" units; there used to be A/OA-10 units called Tactical Air Support Squadrons, which is much more accurate) and would not be capable of NORAD operations.  The F-16 is still being built for overseas operators (up to Block 60 now) and can still match or beat most of what the "bad guys" would have.  There are F-16ADF's mothballed at AMARC designed for air defence that have relatively few flying hours and could be put back into service.

There is an increasing emphasis on airlift; hey, ya gotta have it, so no gripes there.

The Economy sucks......

No argument there.

Recruiters are meeting their quotas....

A lot of the waivers that the military put in (mostly the Army, I think?) for recruits have now been rescinded, which makes it not at all easy to get in.  I would think the Marines and Coast Guard to be especially hard, since they are so small.

I have a Cadet who graduated last year...he tried to join the Marines....the recruiter told him they are ONLY allowed to recruit from high school seniors and prior enlisted.

High school seniors and not graduates?  Maketh no sense whatsoever, since there is no guarantee that a HS senior will complete that senior year and obtain a diploma.

Are the Marines the only service taking prior enlisted?  I've heard that the other ones have pretty much ruled that out, though of course I don't know for sure.

In any case, no matter how much prior service you have, you still have to go to Marine Boot Camp.

It sucks...but that's the way it is.

A word of truth.

[sandman]

It's been 1994 since I wore a recruiter hubcap, so my advice to you may be a little skewed because some criteria has most certainly changed, but here it goes.

First, you never said what type of degree you are working toward, so I'm not sure why some of the guys offered things like NOAA or USPHS. Those commissioning opportunities are very limited and relate to health/medical or science career fields.

Please read the discussions on page one. Hint: BS in management.

Second, the advice that you received is correct about the Army, because the Army -- espcially the National Guard -- will commission officers with associate degrees. Then you have to complete a bachelors degree while still a lieutenant in order to be promoted beyond the rank of captain. Most of the people in this program are infantry or special forces officers.

True for some job specialties. For example, Reserve Registered Nurse, Check it out here

The Air Force Reserve used to commission nurses with associate degrees and chaplains with a total of 120 sememster hours of college credit. The reason why the difference is because chaplains were recommended from by asponsoring faith conference, hold a grade of second or first lieutenant while in seminary, and then are appointed to captain when they graduate from seminary.

You may not know that nurses, doctors, physician assistants, nurse practitioners, and lawyers are not commissioned in the Air Force, they're appointed.

Wait....what?
So all of us officers who received appointments to staff positions, command billets, appointments as general officers (see article: LTG Horoho, Army Nurse, appointed as Army's 43rd Surgeon General ) are somehow not really commissioned? Explain please.

No one mentioned the Marine Corps. The USMC used to have the Platoon Leader Program were you were enlisted as a Reseve E-4/E-5, continued in college but served during summer, and were commissioned a second lieutenant

Well said. A very good choice indeed. The Warrant Officer program ("Gunner" vs. E-7 "Gunny") is a great commissioning route to consider as well.

I left active duty, entered the Air Force Reserve as a Palace Front assignment, completed a masters degree, and was actually recalled to active duty for another seven and a half years, ending my career as a master sergeant. Do I regret never being commissioned, not really. There's a lot more prestige among the senior NCO Corps; and at that stage of the game, I found myself having to babysit brand new second lieuteants (I can tell you some interesting stories), and I began to resent that those same junior officers started their careers with an attitude that looked down upon even senior NCOs...especially a senior NCO with more education and experience.

That was personal and not meant to disuade you from your goals. I'm just trying to be realistic with you, so you may need to re-evaluate your goals and shop around for that program that best fits your goals...then be prepared, it may not be the Air Force, and you may be required to consider a really gutsy program that will test you to your limits in order to achieve that "butter bar."

Thanks for your service Master Sergeant. Please review the commissioning requirements for the NOAA Corps and the USPHS so that you might offer a more informed opinion to individuals seeking service opportunities. There are more opportunities than you might think.

[JK657]

If you have questions about the Army National Guard route I'd be happy to answer them either here or via PM. I enlisted in the Guard, finished my BA and then went to OCS. There are some good websites that can give you a lot of information.

[SAR-EMT1]

Well, the first question I have is related to my degree - BS in Management- I will be minoring in healthcare admin and was wondering about the commissioning process:

The recruiter is spoke with currently plans on my doing 8-10 week BMT first (prior to attending classes for the BS)  followed by State OCS during college- 1 weekend a month for 18 months, followed by OBC - Infantry- after graduation.

But as mentioned here... I am kind of old to be an Infantry platoon leader (will be 28 when I graduate/commission)

Now I know the guard has positions in the Medical Corps for Healthcare Admin. Would this be an eligible alternative to the Infantry track or would it even be possible for me to directly commission into the Medical Corps upon graduation? - Without needing BMT before I return to school...

I am aware some folks here have suggested UPHS and NOAA Corps. Those are attractive programs, however at present I am focused on getting into a military service.

[bosshawk]

SAR EMT1: just a minor point of correction.  In the Army, you would commission into the Medical Service Corps, not the Medical Corps.  Only MDs and other sorts of doctors can commission in the Medical Corps.  Dentists into the Dental Corps, Veterarians into the Vetinary Corps(any I missed?).

MSC is the support arm of the Army medical endeavor.  In fact, MSC used to have helicopter pilots who flew the Dustoff mission.  I suspect that those folks are now branched Aviation.  A good friend of mine, MG Patrick Brady, MOH VN, was an MSC pilot.

[sandman]

SAR EMT1: just a minor point of correction.  In the Army, you would commission into the Medical Service Corps, not the Medical Corps.  Only MDs and other sorts of doctors can commission in the Medical Corps.  Dentists into the Dental Corps, Veterarians into the Vetinary Corps(any I missed?).

MSC is the support arm of the Army medical endeavor.  In fact, MSC used to have helicopter pilots who flew the Dustoff mission.  I suspect that those folks are now branched Aviation.  A good friend of mine, MG Patrick Brady, MOH VN, was an MSC pilot.

Army MEDEVAC pilots are still MSC (67J Aeromedical Evacuation) officers: See this link and this link.

Other medical corps branches: Army Nurse Corps and Army Medical Specialist Corps.

I still say stay with your education and go for Masters in Healthcare Administration. Sure you want military service, I understand. Just be aware that fellow officers in the US Public Health Service are serving downrange with various military branches and are augmenting many stateside units. There are service opportunities in the USPHS that work alongside the military.

A BS with a focus in healthcare management brings to mind another suggestion: apply to the Interservice Physician's Assistant Program through the Active, Reserve, National Guard (Army or Air Force) or Active or Reserve Navy and US Coast Guard. You'll certainly be downrange directly integrated with combat units including SF/Ranger support. Just throwing it out there...

In any case, good luck with your career choice and thanks for your continued interest in military service.

Cheers!

[A.Member]

JMHO, but no matter what you choose, if it's one of those "enlist now commission later" deals, be absolutely 100% certain that you read and understand ALL of the fine print in your enlistment contract.  If there is something you are unsure of, it's better to pay a lawer a couple hundred dollars to go through it with you, than be locked into an enlisted contract because of "the needs of the service" when you joined to be an officer.

QFT...and let me be blunt and one up, Al, if he doesn't mind...

If you want to be an officer, go in as an officer.  Period. 

Do not go in thinking you'll transition up or holding on to some other story.  Start at OTS/OCS.

One of squadron members joined the Guard under a similar program as described by the OP (enlist, finish school, go to OCS).  Problem is, he never got to OCS.   The Guard is very political and, right wrong or other (I say wrong), they never got him there.   Now, he tried to push the issue as much as he could but keep in mind it's a delicate line to walk.  Once commissioned, those people you may've had to push or hurdle, may now be subordinates or elsewhere in your chain of command...and that can make for "interesting" dynamics, especially in the Guard. 

Just something to keep in mind.

[coudano]

Soon to be QF-16 Targets.

I wonder how recoverable a viper will be, after taking a hit and a splash...

[SARDOC]

One of squadron members joined the Guard under a similar program as described by the OP (enlist, finish school, go to OCS).  Problem is, he never got to OCS.   The Guard is very political and, right wrong or other (I say wrong), they never got him there.   Now, he tried to push the issue as much as he could but keep in mind it's a delicate line to walk.  Once commissioned, those people you may've had to push or hurdle, may now be subordinates or elsewhere in your chain of command...and that can make for "interesting" dynamics, especially in the Guard. 

I didn't know we were in the same unit?!?

This is my story almost to a tee.  I joined the Guard with the purpose of going to their state OCS.  After I swore in, I found out how political the Guard was and because I was not there for a given period of time It wasnt fair to those who had dedicated more time in the Guard, The following year they didn't have money and didn't host an OCS.  I tried to get a conditional release to go back to the navy reserve and mobilize for deployment, my request went all the way to the TAG...My request was denied and a Colonel came to meet me in person and told me that "They were going to make me happy in the Guard"  So I finished my enlistment and would never recommend the guard to anyone.  The Guard effectively ended my military career.

[PHall]

Soon to be QF-16 Targets.

I wonder how recoverable a viper will be, after taking a hit and a splash...

Usually they get pretty good number of sorties out of the airframes before they put it on a sortie where live missiles are used.

Most missions are flown against training missiles. Live seeker, no explosives. The AQMI pods score the kills.

[tsrup]

Well said. A very good choice indeed. The Warrant Officer program ("Gunner" vs. E-7 "Gunny") is a great commissioning route to consider as well.

Marine Warrants require at a minimum 8 years enlistment and E-5.

Administrative warrants are more restrictive.

[sandman]

Well said. A very good choice indeed. The Warrant Officer program ("Gunner" vs. E-7 "Gunny") is a great commissioning route to consider as well.

Marine Warrants require at a minimum 8 years enlistment and E-5.

Administrative warrants are more restrictive.

Correct. Only suggested this as an initial enlistment followed by seeking a commission was alluded to. Similar circumstances for WO commission in Navy and Coast Guard. Interestingly, the USPHS is working on a WO program as well. Haven't heard much from OCCO about that recently though, hmmm...

[tsrup]

I still stand by the advice:

If you want a commission, go for the commission.

Anybody who says, "enlist first..."  or "enlisting first will make you a better officer.." doesn't have your best interests in mind.

Plus nobody wants the Private/Airman/Seaman that's constantly on about being at OCS in four years (not saying that's you) because you will have a job to do and remain qualified in.

[JK657]

Here's how it works:

You "enlist" in the Army Guard. When you sign your contract there will actually be a paragraph on your contract saying: "I am signing up as an Officer Candidate. If I fail to complete OCS I will have the option of discharge or staying in or going to AIT and being enlisted". (thats not word for word but you get the idea)

Your MOS will be: 09S-Commissioned Officer Candidate

Usually your branch of service (infantry, MP, etc) won't be confirmed until right before, during or after OCS. Each state does it different. I could be based on openings, abilities, etc.

Expect that if you want to be an Infantry Officer you will have to be Ranger qualified. That has pretty much become the standard. There are exceptions but that is what I am seeing.

Here is a great website run be experts on the topic:http://www.armyocsng.com/portal/index.php

Do not be afraid of "enlisting" to go to OCS. The program is already in place and there are checks and balances to ensure you aren't getting messed over by an shady recruiter. I entered this program at 28 years old. I was not thrilled that I had to go to Basic Training but in the end I was so glad I did. I was never truly "enlisted" but the experiences I got at BCT were amazing and definitely put me ahead of my ROTC peers.

I am currently wrapping up a deployment in the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan as a Military Police Platoon leader who 4 years ago was in your exact same shoes. It can be done!

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Just be aware that fellow officers in the US Public Health Service are serving downrange with various military branches and are augmenting many stateside units. There are service opportunities in the USPHS that work alongside the military.

Especially the U.S. Coast Guard.  I think the USPHS provides all of the medical care for the USCG, and they wear "hybrid" uniforms when attached to the CG: CG uniform with USPHS insignia (Navy Chaplains do the same thing).  What else they do with the military I don't know, but I know they also provide personnel for Federal Prisons, Native American Reservations, CDC and NOAA.

The USPHS Warrant Officer corps is something that they've been talking about for a long time, but to my knowledge no-one has been appointed.  That was/is something they were looking at for people with two-year associate degrees in a health/science field; i.e., LPNs, psych technicians, health care administration, etc., from what I read a few years ago.  I'm  not sure what the current status of that is.

[PHall]

One of squadron members joined the Guard under a similar program as described by the OP (enlist, finish school, go to OCS).  Problem is, he never got to OCS.   The Guard is very political and, right wrong or other (I say wrong), they never got him there.   Now, he tried to push the issue as much as he could but keep in mind it's a delicate line to walk.  Once commissioned, those people you may've had to push or hurdle, may now be subordinates or elsewhere in your chain of command...and that can make for "interesting" dynamics, especially in the Guard. 

I didn't know we were in the same unit?!?

This is my story almost to a tee.  I joined the Guard with the purpose of going to their state OCS.  After I swore in, I found out how political the Guard was and because I was not there for a given period of time It wasnt fair to those who had dedicated more time in the Guard, The following year they didn't have money and didn't host an OCS.  I tried to get a conditional release to go back to the navy reserve and mobilize for deployment, my request went all the way to the TAG...My request was denied and a Colonel came to meet me in person and told me that "They were going to make me happy in the Guard"  So I finished my enlistment and would never recommend the guard to anyone.  The Guard effectively ended my military career.

How did they "end your military career"? Give you a bad RE code? Something is missing here...

And the Guard, even in a big state like California, is like a small town. Everybody knows your business...

[SARDOC]

How did they "end your military career"? Give you a bad RE code? Something is missing here...

Well, No.  I ETS'd with an RE-1.  I was incredibly amazed with how disorganized the guard was.  I knew my future wasn't in the Guard.  I switched to the Guard with the intent of their commissioning program, passed the Guard Commissioning Physical, then they selected with other candidates who had more time in the Guard.  They Wouldn't send me to MOS school because I was going to commission into a different branch and didn't want the expense of shipping me away to school.  Their plan was to send me to a mos school that they held in state the following fiscal year (the Same time of the next OCS) so they decided that I would attend the appropriate school after OCS...They cancelled that OCS due to budget concerns.  The same budget concerns cancelled the MOS school...So now Two years in the Guard Non MOSQ because they had no money for school, making me ineligible for promotions (they didn't accept either of my Navy NEC's)...Then my last year in the Guard, they told me that because I was not MOSQ that would make me not eligible for OCS...and because I was within my last year of my enlistment they could not send me to MOS school unless I extended or Reenlisted.   My Agitation meter was spinning.  My intent was to get out of the Guard and go back to the Navy.  In the Meantime the Navy changed their policy making all new members to the reserve even prior service go through and get a MEPS physical.  I had agreed to even drop a paygrade and go to MEPS...Did not make it through the Physical because of a Service Connected Disability.  MEPS doesn't have different standards for new entry or prior service.  Made the attempt for a Waiver and BUMED gave it a No Go.  I could have stayed miserable in the Guard or just get out....Therefore, the Guard effectively ended my career.

So Yes..there was more to the story.  I didn't think it was necessary in my other comment to go into such detail.

Got out RE1, they gave me the Army Reserve Component Achievement medal (Their version of Good Conduct)...and that's that.

[PHall]

The Guard giving priority to folks with more "seniority" is nothing new. It's their way of rewarding "loyality".
And I know that at least on the ANG side, you need at least 36 months of retainability before they can send you to a MOS/AFSC producing school.
They need to be able to get a return on their training dollars. It's that way in any school tour.

Trying to come in "off the street" and get the good deals just doesn't happen.

[JK657]

I can only speak for California but I came in "off the street" did the Officer Candidate program and had absolutely no issues. I was proactive during the entire process. I made sure all my documents were up to date, my PT score was high and I made contact with my Officer Liaison every week. If you want something bad enough you can make it happen.

[SARDOC]

See that's the Thing...I was already prior service and was recruited specifically for the officer candidate program.  It was in my enlistment contract, but that didn't keep them from disregarding it.  When I submitted the paperwork to be released from the Guard so that I can go back to the Navy reserve to my former unit.  I got a big lecture about my commitment to the Guard, and the Colonel got a lecture on the Guard's contractual commitment to me and I was told "That we are going to make you happy in the Guard"   The ARNG only required 12 months obligation for MOS schools.  But I was not going to reenlist or extend into an organization in to which I had absolutely no trust.  I wasn't "coming off the Street for a good Deal"  This was the deal I made to even come into the guard.  If it was their policy that someone had to a given amount of time before being considered for OCS I would have understood and did what I needed to do.  This was not the information provided by the Recruiter, Who also told me that my two Navy NEC's would convert to the Guard...Which they did not.  My experience with the guard is that they were disorganized and lacked integrity. 

[A.Member]

The moral of the story is, like anything else:  caveat emptor.

[SAR-EMT1]

Here's how it works:

You "enlist" in the Army Guard. When you sign your contract there will actually be a paragraph on your contract saying: "I am signing up as an Officer Candidate. If I fail to complete OCS I will have the option of discharge or staying in or going to AIT and being enlisted". (thats not word for word but you get the idea)

Your MOS will be: 09S-Commissioned Officer Candidate

Usually your branch of service (infantry, MP, etc) won't be confirmed until right before, during or after OCS. Each state does it different. I could be based on openings, abilities, etc.

Expect that if you want to be an Infantry Officer you will have to be Ranger qualified. That has pretty much become the standard. There are exceptions but that is what I am seeing.

Here is a great website run be experts on the topic:http://www.armyocsng.com/portal/index.php

Do not be afraid of "enlisting" to go to OCS. The program is already in place and there are checks and balances to ensure you aren't getting messed over by an shady recruiter. I entered this program at 28 years old. I was not thrilled that I had to go to Basic Training but in the end I was so glad I did. I was never truly "enlisted" but the experiences I got at BCT were amazing and definitely put me ahead of my ROTC peers.

I am currently wrapping up a deployment in the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan as a Military Police Platoon leader who 4 years ago was in your exact same shoes. It can be done!

I will take this info to the recruiter, I have another meeting Weds. If the MOS paperwork happens to say 11-B instead of 09-S should I run for the hills ?

[JK657]

Your primary MOS should read: 09S
There will be 2 "alternate" MOSs listed but that is because the system requires 3 choices. Do not get freaked out by that. Its just a computer thing. The main thing is that as part of enlisting as an 09S you will have that paragraph in your contract that I mentioned.

The website that I sent you has tons of information from people that are or were in your exact position. It is definitely worth it to check it out.

What state are you in?

[PHall]

See that's the Thing...I was already prior service and was recruited specifically for the officer candidate program.  It was in my enlistment contract, but that didn't keep them from disregarding it.  When I submitted the paperwork to be released from the Guard so that I can go back to the Navy reserve to my former unit.  I got a big lecture about my commitment to the Guard, and the Colonel got a lecture on the Guard's contractual commitment to me and I was told "That we are going to make you happy in the Guard"   The ARNG only required 12 months obligation for MOS schools.  But I was not going to reenlist or extend into an organization in to which I had absolutely no trust.  I wasn't "coming off the Street for a good Deal"  This was the deal I made to even come into the guard.  If it was their policy that someone had to a given amount of time before being considered for OCS I would have understood and did what I needed to do.  This was not the information provided by the Recruiter, Who also told me that my two Navy NEC's would convert to the Guard...Which they did not.  My experience with the guard is that they were disorganized and lacked integrity.

Well, if that's your attitude towards the Guard then staying away seems to be your best option.

The Guard is like many other things, it's what you make it.

[SARDOC]

Well, if that's your attitude towards the Guard then staying away seems to be your best option.

The Guard is like many other things, it's what you make it.

That was the same conclusion I reached.  The thing about the Guard, is that it varies from state to state and just like the Active duty military from Unit to Unit.   While I see Guard units that are every bit as good or better than their active duty counterparts, the units I were assigned to couldn't pour piss out of a boot if the directions were written on the heel.  They still owe my money for 12 drill periods...it's been over five years.  I get the feeling I will never see that money.    I showed up to Drill Weekend and was greeted with "Good Morning Sergeant, What are you doing here?" That required the interrogative..."Here for Drill Weekend...why do you ask?"  Apparently Since I was not MOSQ and they started a New infantry unit at a different armory they decided to transfer people into the unit to staff it up...without telling any of them.  I lived relatively close so it wasn't that big of a deal, but when I got there late, as well as other guys who had to drive completely across the state who showed up really late...There were more than a few upset people.  Communication was horrible I could go on and on.  But it's obvious it's not like that anywhere.  I'm glad your experience with the guard was better.  I had higher expectations, got great evaluations, the CO was pressuring me Heavily to reenlist. He was a disappointed and as frustrated as I was about my situation.  I would've gotten promoted and and a nice reenlistment bonus...If I was MOSQ.

[coudano]

They still owe my money for 12 drill periods...it's been over five years.  I get the feeling I will never see that money.    ... I would've gotten promoted and and a nice reenlistment bonus...If I was MOSQ.

so what was stopping you from getting yourself to school and getting qualified?
when i've seen that before, it seems like it's been on the soldier/airman, and not so much on the guard.

how many times have we seen a sharp troop who we wanted to promote, but COULDNT because they hadn't kept on top of their own box checking...

and yeah, dfas makes some stupid mistakes, but if its been 5 years, you're never going to see that money
statute of limitations probably even ran out by now if you wanted to try and make a case about it.
however, 12 drill periods (as in 3 months?)  yah that's probably not enough money to sweat on the long term.  make peace with that and move on with life.

[SARDOC]

so what was stopping you from getting yourself to school and getting qualified?
when i've seen that before, it seems like it's been on the soldier/airman, and not so much on the guard.

how many times have we seen a sharp troop who we wanted to promote, but COULDNT because they hadn't kept on top of their own box checking...

and yeah, dfas makes some stupid mistakes, but if its been 5 years, you're never going to see that money
statute of limitations probably even ran out by now if you wanted to try and make a case about it.
however, 12 drill periods (as in 3 months?)  yah that's probably not enough money to sweat on the long term.  make peace with that and move on with life.

Going to school wasn't me.  I was willing to go to any school they had.  If you read some of my posts above you can see some of the challenges that I faced.   Except for the last year of my enlistment...that was on me, because I knew I wanted out of this organization at that time.  I wasn't about to extend my enlistment to go to some BS school and I'm glad I didn't.  If I did extend I would have been caught by the Stop Loss order that was issued two weeks after my ETS.  I was trying to make it back to my Old Navy aviation unit so that I could deploy with them  and get my career back on track.

As far as the pay issue...I was being sarcastic...I wrote that pay off a long time ago,  Yes, it was three months of drill weekends after I was transferred.  They never changed my mustering/report location.  I was still showing up on the roster for my old unit who I think was marking me UA while I was actually drilling with my new assigned unit,  The problem was eventually corrected but not the back pay.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

The Guard is like many other things, it's what you make it.

The Guard has all kinds of people...and I encountered most of those types.

Some (most I encountered) are as squared-away and good-to-go as anyone on the Active or Reserve sides.  They just want to do their job and do it the best they can with a minimum of fuss and bother.

Some are frankly jerks...I'm thinking of a certain personnel TSgt of my acquaintance years ago...

The Guard has people who tend to serve in the same unit for a long time.  That has good and bad sides.  If they're good people, you look forward to seeing them.  If they're jerks, well...

[coudano]

Some are frankly jerks...

no, no jerks in the active duty...   ?

[RADIOMAN015]

The Guard is like many other things, it's what you make it.

The Guard has people who tend to serve in the same unit for a long time.  That has good and bad sides.  If they're good people, you look forward to seeing them.  If they're jerks, well...

Don't ya think that Civil Air Patrol is another perfect example of what you both say above
RM

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

no, no jerks in the active duty...   ?

That went flying right past me.

RM: CAP is sort of an example of that, except that you can quit anytime or switch units at will.  You can't do that in the Guard.  Also, if one of the proverbial "jerks" gets a bug in their bonnet about you and has the rank to make your life miserable, there's not a great deal you can do about it.