Commissioning Questions

[SAR-EMT1]

I am on track to finish a BS by returning to school in the fall of 2012. I have made this decision based on the fact that recently I was informed that I have been medically cleared to resume my efforts to obtain a commission. ( I was AFROTC from 03-05 and put on a medical hold )

In paying a visit to my former Det I was told by the Maj in charge of admissions that I would be unlikely to be selected for Field Training - hence a commission if I attempted to reenter ROTC. Reasons being:

1) AFROTC reportedly only accepting 40-45 % of sophmores to FT . ( And the Active Duty OTS currently at a complete standstill) Due to an excess of applicants to the commissioning programs since 2009. Those who are accepted for a commission are almost all students in a technical or proffessional degree.

2) I am currently 26 and would be 28 when I finish a BS. Current AFROTC cut off is 29. (went down from 35 earlier this year) Hence my age would be a " strike" against me when my file would be reviewed by the selection board at the Holm center.

Now I talked with an Air Guard recruiter who informed me that at present they are only commissioning applicants (Via McGee-Tyson ) who have already completed a BA/BS. The Air Guard is currently offering NO financial support to those like me who wish to complete a degree and then commission.

Finally I have talked with an Army Guard recruiter who told me a program currently exists whereby I could enlist as an E-4, attend Basic and then proceed immediately into a state OCS program whereby I could complete a Bachelors while attending OCS in the state capital. on alternate weekends " in lieu of" drilling monthly at a local armory.  The cost of the Bachelors would be covered under the G.I Bill as I would be listed as an E-4 while in OCS ( much like ROTC) although ROTC Seniors are paid as E-5's.



I honestly never planned on going Army. However it looks as though my options to get a butter bar with the Air Force as nonexistent.
So I have two questions for those on the forum with experience as Officers or as recruiters:

1) Are there any USAF options  I am unaware of ? (That would offer financial assistance while completing a BS)

2) If I accepted the Army offer ( they would commission me into the Guard as an Infantry Platoon Leader)
Could I eventually work my way over the the active duty Air Force, The Air Force Reserve OR the IL Air Guard ?


Any help is appriciated.

PS: My initial plan back in 03-05 was to go active Air Force in Missiles for my initial obligation and then switch to the Air Guard and finish 20 years. I  Would still like to do 20 years, though not necessarily with an Active duty unit.

[MSG Mac]

1. No one is going to offer financial aid without a signed committment
2. The ARNG's offer of tuition assistance Is it State Tuition Waiver or the Reserve GI Bill?
3. What degree are you obtaining?
4. Have you talked to the Air National Guard about the possibility of transferring once you get the ARNG.

At 28 you're going to be at a disadvantage in an Infantry unit (In my opinion the only ones in an Infantry company over 25 should be the CO or the 1SG). Try to get an appointment in another field MI, AG, Supply, etc , Most of the Infantry officers will be looking for those slots when they are Captains, hoping to be Majors. Beat them to the slot. 

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Have you talked to the AFRES?

Is there an ANG unit in another state near you?  Each state has some flexibility in their admission standards.

Have you thought of going the Warrant Officer route (except that leaves out the USAF)?  A Warrant Officer is still an officer.

If you go the ArNG route to "get your foot in the door," you may be able to do a lateral transfer to the ANG, depending of course on the unit's staffing needs.

Have you checked your State Military Department directory for AGR positions?  Admittedly, those are not plentiful.

[sandman]

Don't forget to look at the NOAA corps (or US Public Health service).

www.noaa.gov

www.usphs.gov

[Al Sayre]

JMHO, but no matter what you choose, if it's one of those "enlist now commission later" deals, be absolutely 100% certain that you read and understand ALL of the fine print in your enlistment contract.  If there is something you are unsure of, it's better to pay a lawer a couple hundred dollars to go through it with you, than be locked into an enlisted contract because of "the needs of the service" when you joined to be an officer.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Don't forget to look at the NOAA corps (or US Public Health service).

www.noaa.gov

www.usphs.gov

The USPHS provides most medical care for the Coast Guard.

I once considered the NOAA Corps, but was ineligible.  I believe that once you are commissioned with them your first duty as a new Ensign is a year at sea.

I also don't believe either of those have reserve components, nor are either of them under the UCMJ, except when USPHS officers are attached to the USCG.

[coudano]

I agree, where in Illinois are you?

I am on track to finish a BS by returning to school in the fall of 2012.

You may need to wait until then to apply, particularly to the Air Guard.
Remember if you join the Army, you may be pushing your graduation back, unless you can coordinate your basic training over a summer.

I have made this decision based on the fact that recently I was informed that I have been medically cleared to resume my efforts to obtain a commission. ( I was AFROTC from 03-05 and put on a medical hold )

Congrats!

In paying a visit to my former Det I was told by the Maj in charge of admissions that I would be unlikely to be selected for Field Training - hence a commission if I attempted to reenter ROTC. Reasons being:

1) AFROTC reportedly only accepting 40-45 % of sophmores to FT . ( And the Active Duty OTS currently at a complete standstill) Due to an excess of applicants to the commissioning programs since 2009. Those who are accepted for a commission are almost all students in a technical or proffessional degree.

2) I am currently 26 and would be 28 when I finish a BS. Current AFROTC cut off is 29. (went down from 35 earlier this year) Hence my age would be a " strike" against me when my file would be reviewed by the selection board at the Holm center.

Probably, yes.  AFROTC is pretty ugly right now...

Now I talked with an Air Guard recruiter who informed me that at present they are only commissioning applicants (Via McGee-Tyson ) who have already completed a BA/BS. The Air Guard is currently offering NO financial support to those like me who wish to complete a degree and then commission.

Air Guard commissionees no longer go to McGhee Tyson...
AMS is now at Maxwell AFB along with OTS.

It's fairer to say that the Air Guard IN YOUR STATE is only accepting applicants who have already completed a BA/BS.  In reality, the units with officer positions posted will take applicants and board them, and hire whoever they pick from the board.  It is not unheard of for the Air Guard to commisison non prior service off the street.  However without the recruiter's help it's going to be difficult or impossible for you to see a list of available officer positions, and board dates.

I have even seen someone get picked for commissioning in the air guard who hadn't quite finished their degree yet.

It's going to be true about financial aid though, and you also aren't going to get GI bill or loan repayment.  those are 'enlistment' benefits, officers don't get such perks.  The best you (might) be able to do would be a cash bonus for stress career field, but even those are pretty much non existent at the moment.

Finally I have talked with an Army Guard recruiter who told me a program currently exists whereby I could enlist as an E-4, attend Basic and then proceed immediately into a state OCS program whereby I could complete a Bachelors while attending OCS in the state capital. on alternate weekends " in lieu of" drilling monthly at a local armory.  The cost of the Bachelors would be covered under the G.I Bill as I would be listed as an E-4 while in OCS ( much like ROTC) although ROTC Seniors are paid as E-5's.

Yeah and the catch here is:
1) if you fail to obtain your degree you are 'stuck' as a private in the Army
2) if you fail to complete Army guard OCS you are 'stuck' as a private in the Army

This includes injuries or any other lame excuse like family emergencies.

I honestly never planned on going Army. However it looks as though my options to get a butter bar with the Air Force as nonexistent.

Your chances will be better after you hold your degree.

So I have two questions for those on the forum with experience as Officers or as recruiters:

1) Are there any USAF options  I am unaware of ? (That would offer financial assistance while completing a BS)

Your commissioning paths for the USAF are:
-USAFA
-AFROTC
-OTS (active duty or reserves)
-AMS (air guard)

2) If I accepted the Army offer ( they would commission me into the Guard as an Infantry Platoon Leader)  Could I eventually work my way over the the active duty Air Force, The Air Force Reserve OR the IL Air Guard ?

You would be applying for an open billet just like anyone else.
Already being commissioned might work in your favor (the unit wouldn't have to pay to send you to commissioning school).  I've seen enlisted guys cross green to blue, but I can only think of one officer that I know who has done it, and he's a lawyer...

[sandman]

Don't forget to look at the NOAA corps (or US Public Health service).

www.noaa.gov

www.usphs.gov

The USPHS provides most medical care for the Coast Guard.

I once considered the NOAA Corps, but was ineligible.  I believe that once you are commissioned with them your first duty as a new Ensign is a year at sea.

I also don't believe either of those have reserve components, nor are either of them under the UCMJ, except when USPHS officers are attached to the USCG.

As you know, the US Public Health Service is a bit more than just a medical care service ( USPHS Professions ) and has student scholarship opportunities ( JR COSTEP/SR COSTEP ). The US Coast Guard is just one of the service opportunities for USPHS officers.

There is in the works a reserve component for the USPHS, part of the plan from the current President.
USPHS Ready Reserve
USPHS "Bling" for uniform buffs

Flight training in the NOAA Corps (P3's, Helos, etc) is a career progression step following your initial three year sea tour. Ships usually go out for a couple of months and head back to port...not like the extended sea tours in the Navy!
NOAA Career Fields
NOAA "Bling" for uniform buffs

Good luck!

[SAR-EMT1]

1. No one is going to offer financial aid without a signed committment
2. The ARNG's offer of tuition assistance Is it State Tuition Waiver or the Reserve GI Bill?
3. What degree are you obtaining?
4. Have you talked to the Air National Guard about the possibility of transferring once you get the ARNG.

At 28 you're going to be at a disadvantage in an Infantry unit (In my opinion the only ones in an Infantry company over 25 should be the CO or the 1SG). Try to get an appointment in another field MI, AG, Supply, etc , Most of the Infantry officers will be looking for those slots when they are Captains, hoping to be Majors. Beat them to the slot.

1. Understood.
2. A 50/50 mix.
3. A BS in Management.
4.  Transferring to the Air Guard is definitely something I would be interested in doing ( It isn't that I don't like the Army, but I have a lot of family ties to the Air Force) The Air Guard recruiter didn't mention transferring. He basically said, that I should come talk to him once my degree was done. I would like to know if transferring is even possible.

As to the Infantry... the ANG recruiter I spoke with strongly supported my going Infantry, based on my comment that I wanted to put in 20 years in the Guard. He left me with the strong impression that in the IL-ARNG officers in the combat arms had far better luck at getting Field Grade promotions / positions than did support types. ( The Recruiter was attached to a TRANS unit) Of course, I personally have no experience with this.
- If I can transfer into the Air Guard I would like to do so.

[SAR-EMT1]

Don't forget to look at the NOAA corps (or US Public Health service).

www.noaa.gov

www.usphs.gov

Although I am a paramedic, I would not be a candidate for PHS as they look specifically for those with an MD/PA/ or RN background, or one with experience with medical research aka Epidemiology...



t is my understanding that NOAA CORPS only accepts those who already have a degree, and that the degree need be in the sea sciences. - Zoology, marine engineering, meteorology etc...

My degree ( Management ) would not be a good fit.

[SAR-EMT1]

Have you talked to the AFRES?

Is there an ANG unit in another state near you?  Each state has some flexibility in their admission standards.

Have you thought of going the Warrant Officer route (except that leaves out the USAF)?  A Warrant Officer is still an officer.

If you go the ArNG route to "get your foot in the door," you may be able to do a lateral transfer to the ANG, depending of course on the unit's staffing needs.

Have you checked your State Military Department directory for AGR positions?  Admittedly, those are not plentiful.

As far as Warrant Officer- The only WO positions in my area are for Aviators. I do not meet the requirements given my vision. ( I wear glasses)... which is unfortunate as there is a VERY active blackhawk unit a stones throw down the road.

[sandman]

Don't forget to look at the NOAA corps (or US Public Health service).

www.noaa.gov

www.usphs.gov

Although I am a paramedic, I would not be a candidate for PHS as they look specifically for those with an MD/PA/ or RN background, or one with experience with medical research aka Epidemiology...



t is my understanding that NOAA CORPS only accepts those who already have a degree, and that the degree need be in the sea sciences. - Zoology, marine engineering, meteorology etc...

My degree ( Management ) would not be a good fit.

While a degree in a science field is "preferable", don't be too quick to count it out.
Eligibility Requirements

Maybe consider reaching for your graduate degree in Healthcare Administration, a follow on for the management field and a commission in the US Public Health Service. Consider the Jr COSTEP and Sr COSTEP program to help fund your graduate education.

Keep up the good work!

[SAR-EMT1]

I agree, where in Illinois are you?

I am on track to finish a BS by returning to school in the fall of 2012.

You may need to wait until then to apply, particularly to the Air Guard.
Remember if you join the Army, you may be pushing your graduation back, unless you can coordinate your basic training over a summer.

I have made this decision based on the fact that recently I was informed that I have been medically cleared to resume my efforts to obtain a commission. ( I was AFROTC from 03-05 and put on a medical hold )

Congrats!

In paying a visit to my former Det I was told by the Maj in charge of admissions that I would be unlikely to be selected for Field Training - hence a commission if I attempted to reenter ROTC. Reasons being:

1) AFROTC reportedly only accepting 40-45 % of sophomores to FT . ( And the Active Duty OTS currently at a complete standstill) Due to an excess of applicants to the commissioning programs since 2009. Those who are accepted for a commission are almost all students in a technical or professional degree.

2) I am currently 26 and would be 28 when I finish a BS. Current AFROTC cut off is 29. (went down from 35 earlier this year) Hence my age would be a " strike" against me when my file would be reviewed by the selection board at the Holm center.

Probably, yes.  AFROTC is pretty ugly right now...

Now I talked with an Air Guard recruiter who informed me that at present they are only commissioning applicants (Via McGee-Tyson ) who have already completed a BA/BS. The Air Guard is currently offering NO financial support to those like me who wish to complete a degree and then commission.

Air Guard commissionees no longer go to McGhee Tyson...
AMS is now at Maxwell AFB along with OTS.

It's fairer to say that the Air Guard IN YOUR STATE is only accepting applicants who have already completed a BA/BS.  In reality, the units with officer positions posted will take applicants and board them, and hire whoever they pick from the board.  It is not unheard of for the Air Guard to commission non prior service off the street.  However without the recruiter's help it's going to be difficult or impossible for you to see a list of available officer positions, and board dates.

I have even seen someone get picked for commissioning in the air guard who hadn't quite finished their degree yet.

It's going to be true about financial aid though, and you also aren't going to get GI bill or loan repayment.  those are 'enlistment' benefits, officers don't get such perks.  The best you (might) be able to do would be a cash bonus for stress career field, but even those are pretty much non existent at the moment.

Finally I have talked with an Army Guard recruiter who told me a program currently exists whereby I could enlist as an E-4, attend Basic and then proceed immediately into a state OCS program whereby I could complete a Bachelors while attending OCS in the state capital. on alternate weekends " in lieu of" drilling monthly at a local armory.  The cost of the Bachelors would be covered under the G.I Bill as I would be listed as an E-4 while in OCS ( much like ROTC) although ROTC Seniors are paid as E-5's.

Yeah and the catch here is:
1) if you fail to obtain your degree you are 'stuck' as a private in the Army
2) if you fail to complete Army guard OCS you are 'stuck' as a private in the Army

This includes injuries or any other lame excuse like family emergencies.

I honestly never planned on going Army. However it looks as though my options to get a butter bar with the Air Force as nonexistent.

Your chances will be better after you hold your degree.

So I have two questions for those on the forum with experience as Officers or as recruiters:

1) Are there any USAF options  I am unaware of ? (That would offer financial assistance while completing a BS)

Your commissioning paths for the USAF are:
-USAFA
-AFROTC
-OTS (active duty or reserves)
-AMS (air guard)

2) If I accepted the Army offer ( they would commission me into the Guard as an Infantry Platoon Leader)  Could I eventually work my way over the the active duty Air Force, The Air Force Reserve OR the IL Air Guard ?

You would be applying for an open billet just like anyone else.
Already being commissioned might work in your favor (the unit wouldn't have to pay to send you to commissioning school).  I've seen enlisted guys cross green to blue, but I can only think of one officer that I know who has done it, and he's a lawyer...

1. I live in Douglas County and work in Macon County.

2. If I went the Army route I have been told I could do BMT in June/ July of 2012 prior to returning to school.

3. The Air Guard NCO I spoke with specifically mentioned McGhee-Tyson, whether he was uninformed, lying or lazy I don't know. As to commissioning off the street, given what I was told about needing a complete BA/BS I would assume that wouldn't be possible. Again, I don't know if he was lazy, lying or uninformed...

The ILANG does list current openings for both officer and enlisted on the website for the individual wings ( 3 of them) An F-16 wing, a C-130 wing, and a KC-135 wing.

As for financial aid as an Officer: The IL Guard Education package is offered to enlisted members AND Company Grade Officers both.
This is separate from the GI Bill and covers 100% tuition for 8 semesters at any public school in the state. It would also retroactively cover 50% of any existing student loans. Room and board fees are not covered.

In the case of an officer ( assuming one already has a BA/BS ) the package would cover an MS/ MA / MBA   OR  LAW / MED SCHOOL

[RADIOMAN015]

3. A BS in Management.

It's a waste of taxpayer's money to sponsor anyone getting a very soft degree such as management.  Maybe certain languages, and selected technical degrees deserve support.  There's plenty of enlisted personnel who already know the ropes that can fill in quite readily with management degrees they have earned in company grade officer positions.

Unfortunately, the military services are going to have a large cut back in the future.  There will be much less need for new accessions either enlisted or officer.

Good luck!
RM   

[sandman]

Although I am a paramedic, I would not be a candidate for PHS as they look specifically for those with an MD/PA/ or RN background, or one with experience with medical research aka Epidemiology...

Again, I invite you to consider continuing your education in Healthcare Administration (MS) or look at altering course towards a BS degree as a Registered Health Information Administrator (RHIA) or Post-Bacc Certificate as RHIA, both commission-able in the USPHS (as well as other services).

The Junior COSTEP program will commission you as an Ensign while you are in school. You would serve on paid internships during school breaks in various service units. The Senior COSTEP program will allow you to finish your last year in school, in whatever program you've selected, as an active duty Ensign with full pay and benefits. Upon graduation, you are advanced to Lieutenant Junior Grade.

Also, don't be too afraid of developing student loan debt. There is relief for those willing to apply. Here is one example (yes, for RHIA too): Loan Repayment Program example.

"Hwa is thet mei thet hors wettrien the him self nule drinken" Old English Homily circ 1175
or
"You can lead a horticulture, but..." Dorothy Parker

Best wishes and Merry Christmas!

[coudano]

1. I live in Douglas County and work in Macon County.

Yeah so you could maybe check out Indiana as well
(although even if you get a job in the Indiana guard, you aren't going to get illinois state tuition assistance) you might get a job/commission though...

We have guys who come from across the country into our unit, it doesn't have to be in YOUR state.

//same goes for reserve units...  i know people who quite literally go across the country for their reserve unit.

2. If I went the Army route I have been told I could do BMT in June/ July of 2012 prior to returning to school.

Yah cool.  Enlisted basic and ait doesn't take very long (14 weeks?)
My state has a 1 year program where you do OCS (army) on 12 weekend drills and 2 weeks AT instead of your typical drill schedule.  You graduate at the end as a 2d Lt and get shoved into some infantry unit at an armory in the far corner of the state.

Air Guard doesn't do anything like that though, you gotta go do 6 weeks of AMS.

3. The Air Guard NCO I spoke with specifically mentioned McGhee-Tyson, whether he was uninformed, lying or lazy I don't know.

Yah maybe any of those things, or some combination of all of them.
Nevertheless, AMS is at Maxwell.  There is no question about that.
Guard AMS, and *NCOA are still at McGhee Tyson.

It makes me wonder if you are necessarily talking to the "right" person?
Maybe just some dude talking...  or maybe he MEANS the right thing and the wrong thing is just coming out of his mouth as a force of habit (it WAS at Mcghee Tyson for YEARS)

Each wing in the ILANG should have its own recruiting and retention office,
and each of those offices should have its own officer recruiting specialist.
I'd make sure you are approaching the recruiters in each of the wings.  approach them separately.
Make sure you are talking to the single correct person.
Don't just talk to "whoever answers the phone in the storefront" or whatever.


//Even better is if you know someone *IN* one of those units you want to join who knows of a vacancy and heads up you to apply.


You could go ahead and do some things, like go take the AFOQT.
And of course, make sure you can pass the AF PT test.


/IF/ you get selected, and get an AMS date, let me know, I can heads up you on some things

As to commissioning off the street, given what I was told about needing a complete BA/BS I would assume that wouldn't be possible. Again, I don't know if he was lazy, lying or uninformed...

Well in the guard we have a saying...
where there's a will there's a way (waiver?)
I can introduce you to someone (real life person) who just got selected for commissioning about 3 weeks ago who is still a couple semesters from finishing his degree.  Not from Illinois though   End of the day, the commanders hire who they want.  Actual qualification sometimes takes a second seat to that...

The ILANG does list current openings for both officer and enlisted on the website for the individual wings ( 3 of them) An F-16 wing, a C-130 wing, and a KC-135 wing.

Ok so a couple of different lists...
One list is the full time positions (AGR and Technician)
That's typically what you are going to find, when you go looking.

There is a different list that shows the vacancies on the unit manning documents, that probably only your recruiters are going to have, or the units themselves who might be hiring.  I doubt this is publicly available on the internet...

Also it's fairly atypical for the air guard to be "full up" on officers...  MOST states have empty officer billets.  They are usually professional officers (doctors, lawyers, nurses, clergy, pilots)

That F16 wing isn't really an F16 wing...  (not the way you think of it)

As for financial aid as an Officer: The IL Guard Education package is offered to enlisted members AND Company Grade Officers both.
This is separate from the GI Bill and covers 100% tuition for 8 semesters at any public school in the state. It would also retroactively cover 50% of any existing student loans. Room and board fees are not covered.

Wow that's a better package than we have here.  We just get state tuition assistance.
And even that is going away in a couple of months because of budget cuts.
But yeah "all guardsmen" will get that in their respective state.

In the case of an officer ( assuming one already has a BA/BS ) the package would cover an MS/ MA / MBA   OR  LAW / MED SCHOOL

In most cases it's only good for a BA though, and not for advanced degrees.  just depends on the laws in your state.  If that's the deal you get, then rock on!!!

[Spaceman3750]

The F16 wing lost its flying mission and the birds went to Indiana (I think?). Now there's an ABM component and an engineering squadron on base, as well as SF and an F16 engine repair shop. There's also a CAP squadron "on base". The fire department shut down in October.

We were very unhappy to lose the 183rd's flying mission. I miss those F16s flying over town.

[davidsinn]

The F16 wing lost its flying mission and the birds went to Indiana (I think?). Now there's an ABM component and an engineering squadron on base, as well as SF and an F16 engine repair shop. There's also a CAP squadron "on base". The fire department shut down in October.

We were very unhappy to lose the 183rd's flying mission. I miss those F16s flying over town.

And we lost the F-16's you sent us. Now the 181st in Terre Haute is an intel wing and the 122nd in Fort Wayne is transitioning from Vipers to Hawgs.

[PHall]

The F16 wing lost its flying mission and the birds went to Indiana (I think?). Now there's an ABM component and an engineering squadron on base, as well as SF and an F16 engine repair shop. There's also a CAP squadron "on base". The fire department shut down in October.

We were very unhappy to lose the 183rd's flying mission. I miss those F16s flying over town.

And we lost the F-16's you sent us. Now the 181st in Terre Haute is an intel wing and the 122nd in Fort Wayne is transitioning from Vipers to Hawgs.

Be happy you still have a manned aircraft mission. They could have gotten a UAV or even a non-flying mission!

[davidsinn]

Be happy you still have a manned aircraft mission. They could have gotten a UAV or even a non-flying mission!

It's too bad they lost the Vipers. They had an air defense role. They put a CAP over Chicago on 9-11. Flew right over my high school about 1430 that afternoon to get there. Scared the poop out of everyone until I pointed out that the sound was of Pratts in Vipers. Unfortunately, all but a handful of the 163rd FS/122nd TFW Vipers have been AMARC'd