Can't join the local unit

[MIKE]

Only one user account is permitted per individual.  Members of the same household may have separate accounts, however they should be kept clearly separate from each other.   Members found to have additional accounts may have those accounts deleted without warning, among other actions.

You can't fool everyone Johann.

[shorning]

That does strike me as having the appearrance of unfairness.

Whoever told you life was supposed to be "fair"?   

[tsrup]

You didn't come on here to ask for advice, you came on here to complain about the unit you went to without the ability for them to defend themselves.  It was just childish squadron bashing. 

Unfortunately for you the Squadron Commander called you out on it.

Usually there is a grain of salt to be had with each account of the evening's events, but your sly move of creating another account only destroyed your credibility.


Let us know how the squadron search turns out for you,  there aren't going to be very many Squadron Commanders happy to see you at their doorstep.

[capchiro]

I have never seen a Regulation that required a unit to have a membership committee..  Can someone point me in the right direction??

[RADIOMAN015]

I was going to let this go, but based on some (not so uncommon) comments here in Captalk, I feel I need to clarify a few things.

First of all, I'm the Unit Commander of the unit the original poster visited and the original poster didn't really clarify everything in his post, so allow me to do that:

2. The bar we went to is ON THE BASE! We meet at an Air National Guard Base and went to the base All Ranks Club after the meeting. We usually do that because it's a good way to get to know each other and discuss things that might not be of interest for the whole group and prolong the meeting.

3. Nobody was drunk. It just doesn't happen since again, we meet on a base and we all have to drive home afterwards.
However, we do have a good time and jokes and laughs are common wether we drink alcohol or not.

6. I never told him he had to drink alcohol. In fact, I bought him a soda myself since he's not a member of the club and I usually do as a courtesy to visitors. If he had paid attention, he would have noticed that several members drank nothing but soda.

7. One member had a 50th b-day coming up and the squadron wanted to honor this on that particular evening. This of course made the jokes and laughs louder than normal.



10. We are a senior squadron, meaning we don't "set any bad examples" for cadets.

14. When the original poster left, I told him he was welcome back next meeting. I assume I can cross him off that list now.

I wasn't going to say anything either BUT anyways  -- Perceptions are important, I'm not sure that CAP senior members meeting in a BAR in uniform after unit meetings, is really a good thing to do from a public relations standpoint for CAP as an organization.   In fact it can more dangerous overall especially on base -- to base relations & support, than stopping off base  

So I guess my question to you would be is one alcohol drink enough? Anyone buzzed (that's difficult to determine)   Do any of your members' stop anywhere else on the way home , surely a CAP senior member in uniform with alcohol on their breathe doesn't do much for the program as a whole.    

Got to also wonder why there's no composite squadron in your area, since there's such a long distance to the next squadron --- any attempts at that?     

Most companies now are discouraging their employees even at business meeting (lunch/supper) to drink alcohol.  AGAIN it's a VERY poor idea for CAP members in uniform to be doing this, regardless of regulation.   The world won't end if your "inner circle staff" doesn't have an alcoholic drink after such "intense" CAP meetings  -- your the leader who will set the pace on this. :angel:

Of course, if the prospective (now non) transferring member is upset enough I guess he/she could always just call security police and explain to them his/her concern about CAP'ers drinking at the club.   Perhaps security might do a random stop on some of the CAP'ers leaving the club.  Subsequent third party interventions/events in the end will separate the truth, half truths, & fiction from all these posts.     Good luck :angel:

RM   

[shorning]

I have never seen a Regulation that required a unit to have a membership committee..  Can someone point me in the right direction??

R39-2 says 'should' not 'will':  "1-5. Unit Membership Board (Applicable to cadets, cadet sponsors, and senior members only). All unit commanders should appoint a unit membership board comprised of a minimum of three members to assist the commander in determining the eligibility of new applicants and membership renewals."

[jimmydeanno]

In fact it can more dangerous overall especially on base -- to base relations & support, than stopping off base  

You're kidding right?  "The Base" loves it when the O'Club gets business because it's more money in the NAF account they can use for family support, etc.  Supporting base services with our members is a plus to the relationships between a CAP unit on the base and the base itself.

Every new person that comes to a base is "reminded" that the O'Club has memberships and benefits and it's "suggested" that you get a membership.  Patronizing the O'Club is not bad for relations.

Of course, getting yourself arrested while your there, etc could be bad.  However, the key here is acting responsibly.  Drinking itself does not constitute irresponsibility.

[Eclipse]

I have never seen a Regulation that required a unit to have a membership committee..  Can someone point me in the right direction??

Sorry, its a "should", not a "will".  Of course locally higher HQ is free to make it a "will".

CAPR 39-2

1-5. Unit Membership Board (Applicable to cadets, cadet sponsors, and senior members only). All unit commanders should appoint a unit membership board comprised of a minimum of three members to assist the commander in determining the eligibility of new applicants and membership renewals.

[Flying Pig]

Please re-read my post. I just did, and I stand by what I wrote.

Would not have happened in my unit.

. . .

We vet everyone....

. . .

Now.....if you feel you were/are being treated unfairly, that regulations and policies are not being followed then by all means make the effort to go up the chain of command and the IG to fix the situation.

But if it is just a case of "I don't like the way they operate...or their too tight knit for met....or I did not feel welcome" there is not a lot you can do about that.  I sure wish that those situations did not exist...but they do...and I am not in any position to make squadrons change their personality just because some new member did not like it.

The unit meets once a month. "Several meetings" before some informal membership committe (*cough*cough* GOBs) makes a decision - based (apparently) on how well you socialize at the bar - is several months of not being able to participate effectively in CAP. That does strike me as having the appearrance of unfairness. Thus, why I sought ou8t the advice of fellow CAP members - again I was *trying* to be anonymous with respect to the unit. 

And what about the claim by the CC that they don't want students in their squadron? The squadron is at the same airport of a well known and respected aviation college. I can't think of a better win - win scenario for CAP recruiting than to have new professionally trained pilots getting involved in CAP. It seems to me more like that the real issue is they don't want their beautiful G1000 to be worn out.
[/quote][/b]

I dont want my units G1000 worn out by flight school students.  I want experienced pilots capable of being mission pilots.  I have no use for "student pilots".  We have airplanes for Missions.  Not to supplement the local aviation college.  They are more than welcome to join, and become Observers or Scanners, learn from the more experienced pilots and when they have shown there are here for the entire program, work into TMP or MP status.  But student pilots at the local college building time in my units G1000 just because they completed Level 1?  No thanks.  I don't see it as a win for CAP.  I see it as a win for the students flying a G1000 for $36 p/hr.  And when they move on, the local unit is left with a worn out G1000 with LCD monitors covered in fingerprints and main gear struts covered in black boot scuffs.

[Major Lord]

Once again we have a member trying to create a new online identity and sell us a major load of BS. We have seen this before, with people trying to sell us everything from snake oil to non-existent emergency services gear. Eliminating anonymous posts would solve this neatly, but failing that, anonymous posters should always be met with the highest degree of skepticism. This one walked, talked, and quacked like a duck from moment-one. The fact that many are still bogged down in the posters original quagmire is proof of how successful these attacks can be;  A decent Squadron was nearly defamed as a bunch of drunken louts. "If these guys are drunks, then the poster must be right, right?" Not so much. People were getting their ropes out to hang (2b) these neer-do-wells for having the temerity to exercise their prerogative of a membership committee.

Major Lord

[a2capt]

A Tiger can't hide in the Daisy's forever.

Umm.. sir, they are drinking in there!
Son, thats what they do in the bar.

[Major Lord]

I think I will cancel our upcoming plans to hold a meeting at an opium den....

Major Lord

[raivo]

The threads I miss...

[RADIOMAN015]

In fact it can more dangerous overall especially on base -- to base relations & support, than stopping off base  

You're kidding right?  "The Base" loves it when the O'Club gets business because it's more money in the NAF account they can use for family support, etc.  Supporting base services with our members is a plus to the relationships between a CAP unit on the base and the base itself.

Every new person that comes to a base is "reminded" that the O'Club has memberships and benefits and it's "suggested" that you get a membership.  Patronizing the O'Club is not bad for relations.

Of course, getting yourself arrested while your there, etc could be bad.  However, the key here is acting responsibly.  Drinking itself does not constitute irresponsibility.

Yea, I'm sure all the guardmen/women really enjoy seeing those CAP'ers in their green wanna bee flight suits in the all ranks club.

Actually, I don't have a problem with CAP'ers joining the clubs where permitted by local policy.  Just do us all a favor in the CAP organization, and dress in an appropriate "civilian" attire --  IF you are in civilian clothes I have no issue with you even drinking responsibly, whatever that means, because depending upon circumstances even one alcoholic drink can impair you
RM

[shorning]

Yea, I'm sure all the guardmen/women really enjoy seeing those CAP'ers in their green wanna bee flight suits in the all ranks club.

  I'm sure they care less than you think they do....

[RADIOMAN015]

Yea, I'm sure all the guardmen/women really enjoy seeing those CAP'ers in their green wanna bee flight suits in the all ranks club.

  I'm sure they care less than you think they do....

I don't want to see any CAP'ers drinking in CAP uniform at the bar (especially the AF style uniforms) in my club!!!
and IF I do I will talk with the membership committee and get that changed, requring that associate members (which that is what CAP members are), be required to be in civilian clothes.
RM

[RADIOMAN015]

Maybe they thought this member would not be a good fit because he telegraphed his moral superiority as a non-drinker. ( There is no rule against drinking in CAP or CAP uniform......Period. Join the Mormon Boy Scouts if you can't live with that) Maybe they thought he was the kind of guy who would go around them and take it outside the Squadron, or maybe they just have policies and procedures ( Which are completely within their authority) to make sure new members are a good fit for their Squadron.

Hmm, I'm sure all are good Mormon CAP members appreciate your comments

IF they were in that military bar in CAP uniform and exceeded one hour, they are in violation of the uniform regulation.  This could easily have been avoided by just changing to civilian clothes.   What is this squadron commander and his fantastic staff trying to prove    

It's plain stupid to drink for the sake of drinking while in any CAP uniform.  IF a member is eating supper, perhaps ONE glass of wine or even ONE beer could be appropriate (but not lunch).    People closely observe anyone in uniform, and are likely to form a more negative opinion quicker when they see someone or groups drinking multiple drinks, being loud, etc.  Even if you are just drinking soda in a bar the observer may not know that.

As far as accepting a transferring member in good standing, surely some inquires should be made with the losing unit.   I think that not accepting someone based upon the "good fit for the unit criteria", is pretty lame, and the time that is going to be spent defending yourself on that lame excuse, isn't worth it. :angel:

I've found any transferring or new member that basically can't seem to identify/adapt to/with the organization's group dynamics, usually leave 3 to 6 months after arrival on their own.  Not a big deal, and most unit's do attempt to do followups, to find out why.   I don't think most of these folks that leave CAP really tell the real reason to the unit when they call anyways.
RM   
 

[RalphF]

Hi - where's this unit that has a bar and free beer at their meetings? Our unit stands around in a tiny unheated shack next to the airport for it's meetings.

[lordmonar]

RM,

How can it be okay for USAF members to drink in uniform but not the USAF Auxillary members to do the same?

When you close down the O Club and make everyone be in civilian clothes then maybe I would care what you think.

If you are not making a fool out of yourself it does not matter if you are in or out of uniform.

[RADIOMAN015]

RM,

How can it be okay for USAF members to drink in uniform but not the USAF Axillary members to do the same?

When you close down the O Club and make everyone be in civilian clothes then maybe I would care what you think.

If you are not making a fool out of yourself it does not matter if you are in or out of uniform.

CAP'ers are not in the military (although, there a propensity of many of them to live out their "fantasy" by going to the clubs and hanging out with the real AF guys & gals).    It is very likely they will stay more than 1 hour, thus violating the CAP policy on uniform wear after the official squadron meeting is over.  Any club membership is is privilege extended to the CAP members.   Likely wise as a military retiree IF I see an associate member doing something I don't like I have a right under the bylaws of the club to lodge a complaint about it.   That's what I will do IF I observe this behavior.  I would encourage others at other bases to do the same IF they observe that behavior by CAP personnel IN UNIFORM.

You see it really doesn't matter what CAP regulation says on this, active military personnel and retired personnel can still force some policy change at least within the respective military bases.  Frankly who really wants to go to the club to relax and have some wanna bee next to you

Hey if the CAP'ers want to change to civilian attire, I really don't care how long they stay at the military bar or even what they do.  Then they look like Joe or Jane plain guest, and not Joe or Jane 'wanna bee".   
RM