Velcro shoulder pocket blouse

Started by 800bestofcap, February 21, 2013, 04:36:48 AM

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

800bestofcap

Quote from: Eclipse on February 21, 2013, 05:39:06 AM
Quote from: 800bestofcap on February 21, 2013, 05:26:48 AM
Why has this become an issue of uniform regulations and not what the topic was started for?

What was the topic started for?

Quote from: 800bestofcap on February 21, 2013, 05:39:06 AM
I wasn't ever meaning to get 20 rants on the 39-1, I just wanted info.

The info you "wanted", was "Where can I get the stuff to make my own homemade tactikewl field uniform?"

The info you needed, was "Don't waste your money, it's not authorized."
Wow, did really need that? If you've seen the thread that's all I've gotten.
C/MSgt

800bestofcap

Quote from: Eclipse on February 21, 2013, 05:42:24 AM
Why don't you ask all the other people in your area who are wearing it where they got it? 

Or better still send a note to your commander about creating a homemade uniform and see what he says.
Our XO wore one to the meeting on Tuesday. Just saying that no one outside of captalk goes crazy about those blouses (but he gave an excuse).
C/MSgt

800bestofcap

Quote from: Eclipse on February 21, 2013, 05:42:24 AM
Why don't you ask all the other people in your area who are wearing it where they got it? 

Or better still send a note to your commander about creating a homemade uniform and see what he says.
Two officers in our unit have them. He is fine with them as long as they are worn to ES functions. And the store that used to sell them stopped selling them.
C/MSgt

Eclipse

Cadet Officers or Senior Members?  Neither has the authority to "be fine with them".

Quote from: 800bestofcap on February 21, 2013, 05:45:03 AMOur XO wore one to the meeting on Tuesday. Just saying that no one outside of captalk goes crazy about those blouses (but he gave an excuse).

You'd be surprised what happens when you move outside a closed circle of members.   The light of day on these sorts of things tends to initiate change.

"That Others May Zoom"

800bestofcap

Quote from: Eclipse on February 21, 2013, 05:50:19 AM
Cadet Officers or Senior Members?  Neither has the authority to "be fine with them".
His uniform was being mended and he couldn't wear his blues because we had staff applicants wearing blues. But also I've seen many senior members (ecspecially at encampment) yell at a cadet because his pocket is unbuttoned and they are wearing an AF uniform weighing 50 pounds over the weight limit. I'm just saying. And I also do know the 39-1 well ( I am my unit's SET officer) but I also realize the importance of having flexibility when it comes to ES gear.
C/MSgt

Eclipse

So this is another cadet who dropped a lame excuse why he couldn't war a proper uniform and you think that
justifies you doing it too?

Cadet,  you should pick an attack angle and go with it.  You started this saying that this was necessary because it's "better",
now you're saying someone wore this because their proper uniform was not wearable.

Seeing others in bad uniforms, especially unrelated variants, does not give you license to make things up yourself.
If anything, seeing other members in improper uniforms should give you more inititive to do things right.
Set the example, don't be the example.

In regards to field uniforms, there is no need for "flexibility" in this case, especially for CAP members, however even if you want to
valiantly argue the necessity for sleeve pockets, it's irrelevant because they are not allowed. Period. If you have enough
people around you really wearing something like this, you should be addressing their inability to follow simple instructions,
not using that as your own justification for the same unacceptable behavior.

Field expediency is what you do in an emergency where life or property is at stake. It is not a justification for just doing whatever
you went because "I know better", or "I saw another guy do it."

A cadet NCO should know better

"That Others May Zoom"

800bestofcap

Quote from: Eclipse on February 21, 2013, 06:06:43 AM
So this is another cadet who dropped a lame excuse why he couldn't war a proper uniform and you think that
justifies you doing it too?

Cadet,  you should pick an attack angle and go with it.  You started this saying that this was necessary because it's "better",
now you're saying someone wore this because their proper uniform was not wearable.

Seeing others in bad uniforms, especially unrelated variants, does not give you license to make things up yourself.

In regards to field uniforms, there is no need for "flexibility" in this case, especially for CAP members, however even if you want to
valiantly argue the necessity for sleeve pockets, it's irrelevant because they are not allowed.

Field expediency is what you do in an emergency where life or property is at stake. It is not a justification for just doing whatever
you went because "I know better", or "I saw another guy do it."

A cadet NCO should know better
The reason I want these is (like I've said) is so that my missions run quicker because I don't need to spend an extra minute to get my compass and map out of my pack just so I don't have a pocket on a sleeve. In the field seconds count.
C/MSgt

a2capt

NC-800, .. if the trend to use 800's for school enrichment unit charters like in CAWG is a national thing, then that tactikewl observation has a lot more merit ;-)

Welcome to CAPTalk.

Maybe this is explains the "renegade" attitude .. ;)


High school Pirates? ;)

800bestofcap

Quote from: a2capt on February 21, 2013, 06:10:34 AM
NC-800, .. if the trend to use 800's for school enrichment unit charters like in CAWG is a national thing, then that tactikewl observation has a lot more merit ;-)

Welcome to CAPTalk.

Maybe this is explains the "renegade" attitude .. ;)


High school Pirates? ;)
I don't go to that school. And where did you get that picture. Also we were given that by the school board for our dedicated room.
C/MSgt

Eclipse

Quote from: 800bestofcap on February 21, 2013, 06:10:04 AM
The reason I want these is (like I've said) is so that my missions run quicker because I don't need to spend an extra minute to get my compass and map out of my pack just so I don't have a pocket on a sleeve. In the field seconds count.

I'm sure we would all be very interested in the details of the real-world missions you've participated in where this was relevant.


"That Others May Zoom"

800bestofcap

Quote from: Eclipse on February 21, 2013, 06:14:26 AM
Quote from: 800bestofcap on February 21, 2013, 06:10:04 AM
The reason I want these is (like I've said) is so that my missions run quicker because I don't need to spend an extra minute to get my compass and map out of my pack just so I don't have a pocket on a sleeve. In the field seconds count.

I'm sure we would all be very interested in the details of the real-world missions you've participated in where this was relevant.
Group 1 ES training school, we took at least 2 extra minutes to get out a compass and map.
C/MSgt

Eclipse

Quote from: 800bestofcap on February 21, 2013, 06:15:55 AM
Group 1 ES training school, we took at least 2 extra minutes to get out a compass and map.

I asked for real world, not training.
Regardless, if it takes you 2 minutes to find your compass and a map, you need to rearrange your gear.

Land nav is not a quick-draw competition.

"That Others May Zoom"

vento

Quote from: 800bestofcap on February 21, 2013, 06:10:04 AM
The reason I want these is (like I've said) is so that my missions run quicker because I don't need to spend an extra minute to get my compass and map out of my pack just so I don't have a pocket on a sleeve. In the field seconds count.

It is irrelevant. If you show up in an unauthorized uniform, any CAP IC with integrity will simply send you home.
An uniform is NOT an ES gear. It is our identity. Do not confuse it with the backpack or the flashlight.

800bestofcap

Quote from: Eclipse on February 21, 2013, 06:19:16 AM
Quote from: 800bestofcap on February 21, 2013, 06:15:55 AM
Group 1 ES training school, we took at least 2 extra minutes to get out a compass and map.

I asked for real world, not training.
Regardless, if it takes you 2 minutes to find your compass and a map, you need to rearrange your gear.
I'm sorry that I live in a town where no one goes in the woods and no one is a Pilot.
C/MSgt

800bestofcap

Quote from: vento on February 21, 2013, 06:21:00 AM
Quote from: 800bestofcap on February 21, 2013, 06:10:04 AM
The reason I want these is (like I've said) is so that my missions run quicker because I don't need to spend an extra minute to get my compass and map out of my pack just so I don't have a pocket on a sleeve. In the field seconds count.

It is irrelevant. If you show up in an unauthorized uniform, any CAP IC with integrity will simply send you home.
An uniform is NOT an ES gear. It is our identity. Do not confuse it with the backpack or the flashlight.
Why is it listed as gear in the ground team bible?
C/MSgt

800bestofcap

Quote from: 800bestofcap on February 21, 2013, 06:21:44 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on February 21, 2013, 06:19:16 AM
Quote from: 800bestofcap on February 21, 2013, 06:15:55 AM
Group 1 ES training school, we took at least 2 extra minutes to get out a compass and map.

I asked for real world, not training.
Regardless, if it takes you 2 minutes to find your compass and a map, you need to rearrange your gear.
I'm sorry that I live in a town where no one goes in the woods and no one is a Pilot.
I wasn't the compass man either. It was a senior member.
C/MSgt

vento

Quote from: 800bestofcap on February 21, 2013, 06:22:35 AM
Quote from: vento on February 21, 2013, 06:21:00 AM
Quote from: 800bestofcap on February 21, 2013, 06:10:04 AM
The reason I want these is (like I've said) is so that my missions run quicker because I don't need to spend an extra minute to get my compass and map out of my pack just so I don't have a pocket on a sleeve. In the field seconds count.

It is irrelevant. If you show up in an unauthorized uniform, any CAP IC with integrity will simply send you home.
An uniform is NOT an ES gear. It is our identity. Do not confuse it with the backpack or the flashlight.
Why is it listed as gear in the ground team bible?

Ok, if you insist on citing regulations. Uniforms are to be worn in accordance to CAPM 39-1. Generic gear does not have a CAPM or CAPR attached to it, at least there is none for my backpack or flashlight. You tell me where in the reg does it say that you can wear an unauthorized uniform item? Members of this board had been trying to tell you that and you simply won't listen.  ???

Eclipse

So based on one senior member who took 2 minutes to get his compass out, you feel justified in creating
your own homemade uniform?

"That Others May Zoom"

800bestofcap

Quote from: Eclipse on February 21, 2013, 06:31:11 AM
So based on one senior member who took 2 minutes to get his compass out, you feel justified in creating
your own homemade uniform?
I feel justified not letting that happen to me.
C/MSgt

JoeTomasone

This is very simple - I don't see why it eludes you.   You have two choices:


1. Accept the fact that what you want to do is not authorized - no matter who has done it or says that it's OK - and find another way to get the job done (maybe get a SAR vest to keep crucial items handy?)

(Edit) Incidentally, my 24 hour pack includes a web belt with ammo pouches that hold my compass, flashlight, whistle, signal mirror, and other "I might need this quick" items.   The problem is not insurmountable.

2. Write up the proposed changes to CAPM 39-1 that would make your preferred uniform authorized and send it up through your chain of command to NHQ so that the uniform committee can consider it.


If your commander is permitting you or others to wear uniforms in a manner inconsistent with regulations, then that is a leadership problem that higher HQ should be looking into.    Don't contribute to the problem by trying to rationalize violations of regulations in the name of convenience. 

</soapbox>