Lack of ES response

[arajca]

It really doesn't matter what CAP calls it (although it would be nice to get on the same page as the rest of the nation!), if you are able to translate CAP talk into FEMA speak, your unit has a much better chance at getting the call when the balloon goes up.

Head, wall. Wall, head. Play nice.

[Eclipse]

Lack of response to local issues has nothing to do with the terminology of our resources and everything to do with lack of contacts and relationships locally.

Everything else is an excuse or a reach - and the nonsense about the charter isn't even relevant.

Many complain about "not being called...", but few talk about the "6-months to 1-year of meetings, conferences, MOUs, and joint training we did
with our local EMA and Sheriff's department, and then they didn't even call us to help when it was needed."

We speak all the FEMA we need to, we just don't want to actually do the leg work to foster the relationships.  It's much easier to "blame wing" and then just flip through the DVR queue, then actually take more nights in the month to attend EMA meetings, or use a personal day to visit a local Sheriff during business hours.  Bottom line: those units and wings that take the time are on the call sheets, those that don't, aren't.

There's plenty we could be doing at higher levels to help foster those local relationships and expand the expectations with national agencies, but it's difficult to market a resource that feels free to come and go as it pleases with no ramifications when golf is more attractive than training. 

Every unit ESO is charged with creating and growing local relationships.  If you want to help more, make it happen.

[CAP_Marine]

It really doesn't matter what CAP calls it (although it would be nice to get on the same page as the rest of the nation!), if you are able to translate CAP talk into FEMA speak, your unit has a much better chance at getting the call when the balloon goes up.

Head, wall. Wall, head. Play nice.

I was definitely playing nice. My intention was to point out that no matter what WE call it, it is recognized by other agencies in a far better defined way. Whether or not CAP decides to use FEMA speak or not, it is fairly easy to translate into it for the purpose of clear communication. It doesn't require a total revamp of our current system to use the terminology that others do.

[Eclipse]

I was definitely playing nice. My intention was to point out that no matter what WE call it, it is recognized by other agencies in a far better defined way. Whether or not CAP decides to use FEMA speak or not, it is fairly easy to translate into it for the purpose of clear communication. It doesn't require a total revamp of our current system to use the terminology that others do.

And that's not something that can be done on the fly during the meetings...

...locally?

[CAP_Marine]

I agree with the "not on the fly" comment, as it takes some preparation to make sure you are typing the asset correctly and not overstating your capability. As for "locally" why not? It constitutes no change to how we operate. It is simply a more accurate descriptor of our capabilites. If we said we had fixed wing capability, C182's with glass cockpits, or a Type II Air Search team, we are saying the same thing with varying levels of descriptiveness. Using the proper terminology when speaking with people always helps to get the point across better, whether we are talking about incident typing or anything else in general. Potatoe, Potahtoe.

I couldn't agree more that the leg work and meetings with local EMAs are thebread and butter to getting called up during a response. I mentioned that in my post but perhaps without enough enthusiasm. My purpose of bringing up the FEMA typing was 1- to dispel the notion that CAP doesn't have a role to play in DR, and 2- to provide an example of a tool that can be used to better describe our capabilities in a language that most of the EMAs understand. Certainly not the be all to end all, but it might help some make a break through when they do go to these meetings.

[Larry Mangum]

I agree with the "not on the fly" comment, as it takes some preparation to make sure you are typing the asset correctly and not overstating your capability. As for "locally" why not? It constitutes no change to how we operate. It is simply a more accurate descriptor of our capabilites. If we said we had fixed wing capability, C182's with glass cockpits, or a Type II Air Search team, we are saying the same thing with varying levels of descriptiveness. Using the proper terminology when speaking with people always helps to get the point across better, whether we are talking about incident typing or anything else in general. Potatoe, Potahtoe.

I couldn't agree more that the leg work and meetings with local EMAs are thebread and butter to getting called up during a response. I mentioned that in my post but perhaps without enough enthusiasm. My purpose of bringing up the FEMA typing was 1- to dispel the notion that CAP doesn't have a role to play in DR, and 2- to provide an example of a tool that can be used to better describe our capabilities in a language that most of the EMAs understand. Certainly not the be all to end all, but it might help some make a break through when they do go to these meetings.

CAP does not have FEMA typed Aircrews. CAP HHQ DO shop has been working on this for awhile and even sets on some of the FEMA typing committees, which are still working on defining Typing. 

[754837]

I would like to see our ES participation expand in a useful way.  The ES mission is what justifies the use of aircraft, uniforms, radios, etc.  Without it, we are just pretending.

I don't think we have an ES management role outside of our own organization.

No doubt many more experienced people on this site will disagree with most if not all of my opinions but I truly believe the ES component is fading fast.  When it goes, the need for aicraft, uniforms, radios, special activities like "Ranger Training" goes away and we become a program like the Boy/Girl Scouts, Sea Scouts, JROTC & the like.   

[Eclipse]

I would like to see our ES participation expand in a useful way.

Such as?

[Major Lord]

If your Squadron, or some members therein, want to do DR, they could conceivably or independently establish a charter as a BSA venturing crew. I think that it would be great to establish a Co-charted "Venturing Crew" ( kind of like a task specific Explorer Post) to train to NASAR standards, medical training, military specialty skills as local units can be brought into the fold. To turn this, like all other threads into a Uniform Thread, venturing crews can create their own uniforms, boonies hats, Shootin' iron,  berets, Ho chi min sandals, almost whatever you want. Imagine turning a group of young people into GSAR professionals, ready to bring a higher industry standard to CAP's future! You still can't wear your Scout uniform to CAP meetings though, sorry day campers!

Major Lord

[Private Investigator]

Even when duly authorized, CAP members sometimes don't help themselves.  Once upon a time I was an airport patrol officer and threatened to arrest some CAP members who were driving recklessly on an airport ramp while searching for an ELT.  I threw a nice warning their way before they displayed continuing stupidity that required a more direct approach.  I was a CAP member at the time so it was a little awkward.

Eric, roger that! I have those awkward moments too. Actually some are very embrassing.

[Private Investigator]

I think we need to remember being a national forum what works in PA might be illegal in CA. Some states give their Wings zero ($0) and may not expect anything. PAWG gets $500,000 annually from the state. Big difference, HUGH DIFFERENCE.   

[754837]

LE can go wherever they want in their jurisdiction, because they are LE - a first responder agency, and one which is likely fully funded with people on call and on site when the sirens go off.

LE aircraft can go where they need to go and are often outside of their jurisdiction.  LE agencys usually have mutual aid argeements in place to address jurisdictional issues.  Many states also have laws that specifically permit LEO's from working outside of their traditional geographic jurisdiction in times of emergency.

[754837]

I think the underlying issue that I want to emphasize up is that our ES mission is going the way of bombing German U-Boats off of the east coast during WW2.  Maybe DR is a place where we want to help & maybe it is not. I don't know.  There is plenty of work to be done in DR & I don't think that we are too good to do it but that may be a topic for a different thread.   What I am suggesting is that if CAP is to thrive, the ES mission needs to evolve.
   
I have some but admittedly limited lobbying experience with a state legislature on LE issues unrelated to CAP.  If asked, I could not in good conscious ask for public funds for CAP especially in such trying economic times.  The money would be better spent on block grants to volunteer fire departments (no, I am not a fire fighter & I have no desire to become one).  I don't see CAP delivering the biggest bang for the public buck.  I am sure that moments after I post this it will be pointed out to me how wrong I am. 

Look at the "bragging rights" post – 16 pages of conversation mainly by people preparing to and having a serious desire to serve.  Without providing a viable, useful emergency service (whatever that is) the organization will fade away.  I am definitely not Anti-CAP.  That is not the case.  Many good things in my life came directly through my CAP experience, mainly with the cadet program.  I have left the senior program on two occasions because of job complications and my frustration with the CAP bureaucracy.

I want to see CAP not just survive but to thrive. Just one man's opinion...

[Eclipse]

OK, fine.

But you've made the same assertion several times with no suggestion as to the fix.

DR is ES, and we're heavily involved all over the country, where we aren't, it's generally because of local failings or local politics.
The AFRCC told us that in Washington the state does their own DF'ing for missing aircraft.  Bad for WAWG, but that's only 1/52 of our total organization.

What aren't we doing that we are supposed to?

[bflynn]

What aren't we doing that we are supposed to?

A serious answer -

I don't feel like the leadership is leading toward a solution that involves CAP being a critical part of the future of EM services in this country.  I'd welcome being proven wrong on that because it would mean that I'm missing a big part of the activity.

What I'd like to see is guidance from a national, regional and wing level about how individual squadrons can identify, approach and work with state and local Emergency Management officials to help them understand what CAP can and cannot do for them.  I think that doesn't get done because nobody has a clue how to begin it.

I feel like a lot of CAP's energy is spent on compliance...look at the thread here, 90% of them are about following the rules.

[lordmonar]

What aren't we doing that we are supposed to?

A serious answer -

I don't feel like the leadership is leading toward a solution that involves CAP being a critical part of the future of EM services in this country.  I'd welcome being proven wrong on that because it would mean that I'm missing a big part of the activity.

What I'd like to see is guidance from a national, regional and wing level about how individual squadrons can identify, approach and work with state and local Emergency Management officials to help them understand what CAP can and cannot do for them.  I think that doesn't get done because nobody has a clue how to begin it.

I feel like a lot of CAP's energy is spent on compliance...look at the thread here, 90% of them are about following the rules.

That guidance already exists in the form of the ES Officer's Specialty Track Guide.

It is mainly about meeting with the county ES managers and finding out what they need from CAP, what CAP can bring to the table and keeping those relationships healthy through frequent joint training and cooperation.

[Spaceman3750]

What aren't we doing that we are supposed to?

A serious answer -

I don't feel like the leadership is leading toward a solution that involves CAP being a critical part of the future of EM services in this country.  I'd welcome being proven wrong on that because it would mean that I'm missing a big part of the activity.

What I'd like to see is guidance from a national, regional and wing level about how individual squadrons can identify, approach and work with state and local Emergency Management officials to help them understand what CAP can and cannot do for them.  I think that doesn't get done because nobody has a clue how to begin it.

I feel like a lot of CAP's energy is spent on compliance...look at the thread here, 90% of them are about following the rules.

Hello, EMA Director, my name is John Bagodoughnuts and I would like to meet with you about an organization called CAP.

That said, I'm not doing a stellar job in this area right now either. The bottom line is that it takes work and the folks at wing, region, and national can't do it all. The SQ/Group ESOs and CCs need to arrange meetings with EMA directors, sherriff departments, and the like for their local area.

I will agree with you on the compliance bit.

[Woodsy]

What aren't we doing that we are supposed to?

A serious answer -

I don't feel like the leadership is leading toward a solution that involves CAP being a critical part of the future of EM services in this country.  I'd welcome being proven wrong on that because it would mean that I'm missing a big part of the activity.

What I'd like to see is guidance from a national, regional and wing level about how individual squadrons can identify, approach and work with state and local Emergency Management officials to help them understand what CAP can and cannot do for them.  I think that doesn't get done because nobody has a clue how to begin it.

I feel like a lot of CAP's energy is spent on compliance...look at the thread here, 90% of them are about following the rules.

Hello, EMA Director, my name is John Bagodoughnuts and I would like to meet with you about an organization called CAP.

That said, I'm not doing a stellar job in this area right now either. The bottom line is that it takes work and the folks at wing, region, and national can't do it all. The SQ/Group ESOs and CCs need to arrange meetings with EMA directors, sherriff departments, and the like for their local area.

I will agree with you on the compliance bit.

We have found here locally that a great way of nurturing that relationship is to attend training classes and events ran by the EMA.  For example, ICS 300 and 400 classes, position specific ICS classes (like PIO, branch directors, etc.)  Also things like annual hurricane or mass trauma exercises (cadets make great "bodies.")

I am in a major metro area, where the full time paid emergency responders number around 8K between sworn LEO and fire, so it's hard to get a face to face with the EMA director, who here happens to be the chief of the fire/rescue dept.  However, he always makes an appearance at ICS classes and usually teaches at least one of the days personally.  With a class size of 30 or so, it's easy to walk up to him on one of the breaks and chat a bit.  I was actually surprised to find out he knew as much as he did about CAP when I talked to him during my ICS 300 and 400 classes last December.  I exchanged business cards with him and several other chiefs who were teaching the class, as well as many of the students, who were mostly captains and above from police and fire.  We also had a couple Marine fleet protection guys, CG, Navy, and more.  I've kept in touch with many of them and our relationship with the EMA has grown because of it.  We've been invited to participate in more events now.

My point is that these training classes and events are a good way to have your uniform seen.  They see it enough times, and are impressed with your actions, and they will come looking for you.  It also gives you a chance to network on the peer-to-peer level with fellow classmates, who often will find themselves in high level roles a year or 2 after the ICS 300-400 classes.  Here, most of them are taking it because it's a pre-req to take the chief's test. 

[bflynn]

That guidance already exists in the form of the ES Officer's Specialty Track Guide.

It is mainly about meeting with the county ES managers and finding out what they need from CAP, what CAP can bring to the table and keeping those relationships healthy through frequent joint training and cooperation.

I must still be missing it...can you give a link?  When I put ES Officer's Specialty Track Guide into Google, everything points back to CAPP-213 which doesn't cover what you're suggesting.

[johnnyb47]

The materials for presentation are here:
http://www.capmembers.com/emergency_services/capabilities-handbooks--briefing/

Specific guidance on how to initiate contact with local agencies doesn't seem to prevelant though I suspect it differs so much from state to state that the suggestion is to start by contacting the Wing ES officer for guidance on who to contact.