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ES missions

Started by 754837, April 14, 2012, 10:47:24 PM

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754837

In your opinion, do you see CAP as a true provider of emergency services outside of the search for lost aircraft?  In a CAP role, have you ever participated in a true emergency response?  Do you think CAP needs to find an additional primary mission and if so, what would that be?

Eclipse

Yes.

Yes.

No.

For clarity I would suggest you define "ES" because we are already involved most aspects that meet the general definition.

"That Others May Zoom"

manfredvonrichthofen

Yes,
Yes,
No. When we are called, we are a vital asset, I have seen it too many times to think that we are obsolete in ES.

RADIOMAN015

Quote from: 754837 on April 14, 2012, 10:47:24 PM
In your opinion, do you see CAP as a true provider of emergency services outside of the search for lost aircraft?  In a CAP role, have you ever participated in a true emergency response?  Do you think CAP needs to find an additional primary mission and if so, what would that be?
1.  Maybe, depends upon the wing and motivation to look at other ES missions.
2.  No, (yes if you count ELT responses) but on active Duty AF, KC135 Crash in Michigan
3.  Maybe; however it is likely to be more aircraft/aero related than ground forces.  The aircraft are truly an effective/efficient tool e.g. photo recon, real time video recon (likely the best opportunity), transportation of officials/emergency supplies, etc.      Ground might work with more of a CERT "adopt a community" type program.
RM

Major Carrales

QuoteDo you see CAP as a true provider of emergency services outside of the search for lost aircraft? 
Yes, the "minuteman" style of community service has an old tradition in the United States.  We operate CAP professionally and based on tried and true methods that greatly enhance the ES establishment.  Disaster Relief, searching for missing purpose and aerial recon of dams, floods and the like are other missions we find CAP working.

In a CAP role, have you ever participated in a true emergency response? 
Yes....and both were significant.

Do you think CAP needs to find an additional primary mission and if so, what would that be?
I think we should bolster our work in Disaster Relief and Preparedness.  But, so long as the USAF is tasked with inland SAR, CAP will have SAR responsibilities.
"We have been given the power to change CAP, let's keep the momentum going!"

Major Joe Ely "Sparky" Carrales, CAP
Commander
Coastal Bend Cadet Squadron
SWR-TX-454

skipperdan

Several flight crews from my Group were tasked to fly Photo Recon for Deep Water Horizon.

Woodsy

1. Yes.  In fact, I've never been personally involved in a missing aircraft search.
2. Yes.  Most recently, a 16 year old swimmer that was sucked out to sea by a rip current.
3. Yes.  Aerial Photography, infrastructure assessments, real-time video, and disaster response are quickly becoming primary missions. 

Critical AOA

I think that with the ever increasing proliferation of various agency helicopters with advanced technologies as well as the 406 MHz ELTs and PLBs that CAP's role as a first or early responder for SAR ops has been greatly reduced.  Most of the missing aircraft finds these days seem to be by sheriff departments and the Coast Guard. That statement is based more or anecdotal evidence than any data by the way. 

These agencies just have better equipment as well as full time employees always ready to go on a moment's notice.  Hard to match.  So I would say our future lies away from missing aircraft SAR and more towards other tasks.  This would include aerial photography as some have already noted.   Oil spills, floods, wildfires, earthquakes, etc. are all disasters that often require aerial photography or just an eye in the sky providing vital intel.

So my belief is less first responder / SAR / urgency type situations and more support function is where our future will be.
 
Regardless we would still be contributing, still serving, still involved, still a factor.  Still proud.
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."   - George Bernard Shaw

sarmed1

I think CAP's status as a "true provider" of Emergency Services varies from local to local.... some places have a bigger and/or immediate response mission than others, so it is hard to identify the whole organization in a yes or no sort of answer.  FL wing and its ground recon mission for hurricaine damage assesment comes to mind.  PA where I currently am has always had a much bigger involvement in missing person searches than I have seen in many other states I have lived in (back in the 90's the squadron I was a member of was identified as the county's primary search and rescue agency)

I have been involved in a number of "real world" CAP emergency missions, most have been missing aircraft searches (one was technically an ELT search, but that was to silence what plotted an obvious "accidental activation" becaue there was an active overdue aircraft mission....oh all in the middle of a blizzard)

I think that the AC platform missions are still technically the bread and butter, and with some local level exceptions, its the asset that CAP brings to the table that most no one else has.  As far as non ELT/EPIRB/PLB ground searches I think there are other agencies out there that do it faster and more effecient (ie the right kinds of equipment/personnel...especially "specialized" assets, that CAP crrently doesnt provide...ropes/helos/atv's, medics). 

Where CAP could "find" new missions:  improve our existing ones:  train GTM personnel to act more as liasons to outside GSAR units on utilizing CAP air assets to enhance their mission. 
Better communications capability, most poeple are good at put on channel 1, push to talk...and thats where there radio expertise ends,and the ones that are good at it are not likely to venture to far away from the building, comfy chairs and airconditioning
I think there is a nitch out there for DR that isnt USAR,but isnt handing out water, for GTM types.  I am very impressed with the RECON mission that FLWG does, especially the air/ground integration; I can see that as mission area of possible expansion to other regions.


mk 
Capt.  Mark "K12" Kleibscheidel

cap235629

Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on April 15, 2012, 12:25:40 AM
Quote from: 754837 on April 14, 2012, 10:47:24 PM
In your opinion, do you see CAP as a true provider of emergency services outside of the search for lost aircraft?  In a CAP role, have you ever participated in a true emergency response?  Do you think CAP needs to find an additional primary mission and if so, what would that be?
1.  Maybe, depends upon the wing and motivation to look at other ES missions.
2.  No, (yes if you count ELT responses) but on active Duty AF, KC135 Crash in Michigan
3.  Maybe; however it is likely to be more aircraft/aero related than ground forces.  The aircraft are truly an effective/efficient tool e.g. photo recon, real time video recon (likely the best opportunity), transportation of officials/emergency supplies, etc.      Ground might work with more of a CERT "adopt a community" type program.
RM

Once again RM your view of CAP is too narrow.  In other parts of the country ground SAR is alive and well:

A RECENT THREAD ON THIS SUBJECT
Bill Hobbs, Major, CAP
Arkansas Certified Emergency Manager
Tabhair 'om póg, is Éireannach mé

Stonewall

#10
I have personally been involved with numerous missing aircraft and people (see 2 attached flyers) searches.  1 from when I was a cadet in FLWG in April 1991 and another from DCWG (support VAWG) in October 1996.  There have been many more over the past 25 years, but I happen to have the "MISSING" flyers saved in my CAP historical files.
Serving since 1987.

jimmydeanno

I've been involved in CAP ES stuff for about 15 years, on the ground side, mostly.  I have about 30 non-distress finds, and have participated in one actual downed aircraft search.

Every year, my current wing participates in disaster relief because of flooding in the region.  Come spring time, I just wait for the e-mail saying that there's flooding and that they need people to respond. 

I don't think that CAP needs to assume another mission, but I think they could refocus their eye on our current mission set.  Wings today still press to get ground teams and UDF teams, when I think that the larger mission for most wings is DR, and that ground qualifications they really need is CERT, as it would be a far more useful skillset. 

GTM, UDF, etc., make SAREX planning and participation a bit more "fun," but in reality, we've been responding to more disasters lately.  We aren't hunting ELTs, we're taking photos, and aiding other primary responders on the ground. YMMV.
If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law. - Winston Churchill

sardak

At the NTSB forum on General Aviation SAR earlier this month, John Desmarais from NHQ presented a chart showing that only 11% of FY 11 mission activity was SAR. Since SAR was the purpose of the forum, the specific breakdown of the other 89% of mission activity wasn't given.

Of the 11% SAR, 17% was missing aircraft, 16% missing person and 67% ELT/EPIRB/PLB.

Mike

Eclipse

That sounds about right, with the rest probably being training, DR and CN.

I'd be willing to bet that percentage-wise that stacks up against most departments and other similar agencies.  There's only so many hours in a week, especially for volunteers. 

I know the fire trucks in my town sit idle more then they are used, but few would suggest we get rid of them, since when they are needed
they are needed.

Just like the military, in a perfect world, all our time would be spent on training and readiness, and you pray you never need to be called.

"That Others May Zoom"

sardak

I attached John's presentation. Scaling the chart shows:

Drug Interdiction 43%
Homeland Security 28%
SAR  11%
DR 11%
Base Support 7%

Mike

sarmed1

I wonder since it was an aviation specific presentation, if that 11% was just aircraft ops or all ES ops;  as I know that many of the missing person searches I have been on have not involved a CAP aircraft.

Quote...and that ground qualifications they really need is CERT, as it would be a far more useful skillset.

I have said it in the past and most pro-rescuers agree; CERT is more of a lay person qualifiaction than a skill set for people who's "job:" it is to respond to disaster.  For CAP purposes I can see it as a familiarization or pre-req but not as the "qualification".  There still needs to be some identified skill/task/knowledge that meets the mission specific needs that CAP is generally providing

mk
Capt.  Mark "K12" Kleibscheidel

LTC Don

#16
Quote from: sarmed1 on August 08, 2012, 12:55:35 PM
I wonder since it was an aviation specific presentation, if that 11% was just aircraft ops or all ES ops;  as I know that many of the missing person searches I have been on have not involved a CAP aircraft.

Quote...and that ground qualifications they really need is CERT, as it would be a far more useful skillset.

I have said it in the past and most pro-rescuers agree; CERT is more of a lay person qualifiaction than a skill set for people who's "job:" it is to respond to disaster.  For CAP purposes I can see it as a familiarization or pre-req but not as the "qualification".  There still needs to be some identified skill/task/knowledge that meets the mission specific needs that CAP is generally providing

mk

Agreed.  CERT is a great starting point but in and of itself, CERT has problems structurely with CAP as a national organization and Citizencorps.  CERT does not scale well at all for CAP, but unfortunately, it's the only game in town in terms of a structured training program in the urban DR environment.

NC CAP is taking a regional approach with CERT, but it's very slow going trying to get the squadrons out of their respective sandboxes.
Donald A. Beckett, Lt Col, CAP
Commander
MER-NC-143
Gill Rob Wilson #1891