Considering RSC

[UWONGO2]

So I'm being pressured by a couple of different folks to take RSC. It's a bit of a tough sell, I've done the college thing already and that's a lot of money and vacation time to burn for a volunteer gig. To put off making a decision, I engaged in my typical paralysis by analysis and over the past month did some website checking. Except for the Great Lakes and Rocky Mountain Regions, all the websites were still showing 2018 information (which is understandable).

I looked at what's important to me. Obviously cost hits the list, but also what is on the itinerary (all classroom vs field trips)? What is the "culture" of the college, meaning is it a hut-hut shine your boots or an adult learning environment (I used the polo uniform being allowed or not as a barometer for this). I also accept this is silly, but if I'm going to spend the money, vacation time, and time away from family, I don't want to get stuck doing something I loathe and for me that's "formal" dining ins or outs or whatever direction you're supposed to be going. I some people love them, it's just I'm not one of those people.

This is what I was able to glean from their websites. I'm hoping folks that attended one recently and chime in if I got something wrong or perhaps the marketing didn't quite match up to the user experience.

Region	Date	Course Fee	Lodging	Total Cost	Location	Notes
Great Lakes	June 2 - 7 (2019)	$50	$300	$350	Wright-Patterson AFB, OH	Housing can be cheaper if you take a roomie. Photos suggest a tour of the USAF museum. Polos authorized.
Middle East	July 12 - 18 (2018)	$105	$240	$345	Joint Base Andrews, MD	Limited course information, no information on tours or activities. Formal banquet requiring formal wear. Military formation each day. Strict uniform policy which includes dismissal.
North Central	June 12 - 16 (2018)	$50	$152	$202	Army Regional Training Institute, SD	No information online, just one flyer found at NHQ. Lodging to $40 if willing to stay in open-bay barracks. Banquet at a restaurant. No polos.
Northeast						No information. Website suggests there hasn't been on since 2011, NHQ shows dates for one in 2018 but no information.
Pacific	May 12 - 18 (2018)	$115	$289	$404	Nellis AFB, NV	Billeting is at a casino. Luncheon and BBQ, otherwise all other meals on your own. States grey/white preferred over blues, polos authorized. College polo provided. Includes a base tour.
Rocky Mountain	June 16-22 (2019)	$200		$200	Air Force Academy Prep School	Course fee includes lodging & meals. Tour of WWII aviation museum. College polo provided. Limited information otherwise.
Southeast	June 10 - 16 (2018)	$125		$125	McGhee Tyson ANGB, TN	Only found an old guide online. No other information online. Link from NHQ is to a blank page. No charge for billeting. Social and formal banquet. No polos. Formation each morning.
Southwest	July 14-21 (2018)	$115	$420	$535	Kirtland AFB, NM	Includes formal dining out after graduation (attendance is required). No polos. Emphasis on using rank titles and uniforms. Pre-work required.

I really found the Rocky Mountain and Pacific regions interesting. RMR is a little light on the details, but being around the Air Force Academy campus sounds interesting. The pictures from the PCR show some great tours. For those that are really into military environments, there looks to be a couple of regions that would be a perfect fit (just not for me).

I don't know that you can say one region is "better" than another when it comes to RSC, just more what fits personally for what you want to get out of the experience. What I'm trying to say is I'm not trying to start a gang war among the RSCs

[Eclipse]

PCR has the best rep hands down.

[jeders]

All of the RSCs are going to function in a similar manner. They all have a focus on academic learning, not marching around in circles, and everything will revolve around the academics. Also, all of them are going to have some sort of social networking event at the end in the form of a banquet or dining out (quite honestly more people need to learn how to handle themselves in formal settings). And all of them should provide you with knowledge, skills, and contacts to help you for years to come.

As for boots on the ground knowledge, I can only speak from my experiences at the 2012 SWR Staff College. The pre-course homework was pretty simple and took about 30 minutes, though I could see it taking an hour if you don't already know how to write (format) a memo. At the beginning of each day we would stand for the pledge of allegiance before beginning classes, which was the sum total of our "formation". After the last class of the day, we changed out of our regular uniform into our RSC t-shirt and did seminars for a couple more hours followed by homework. Once that's all done, we got to hang out with the instructors and other students for a little bit before going to bed and repeating it all the next day. Also, if you buy a couple cases of beer on the first day to share with other students as well as staff, your seminar may become the most popular.

What is the "culture" of the college, meaning is it a hut-hut shine your boots or an adult learning environment (I used the polo uniform being allowed or not as a barometer for this).

Honestly, I think that by using the wear of the optional polo uniform instead of the required minimum basic uniform as a measure of culture, you are doing yourself a massive disfavor. SWR RSC was (and still is) a professional learning environment and is one of the best things I've done in CAP. If anything, I would think that you would want to avoid the schools that allow performance at a level below the minimum, but that's me.

[TheSkyHornet]

Honestly, I think that by using the wear of the optional polo uniform instead of the required minimum basic uniform as a measure of culture, you are doing yourself a massive disfavor. SWR RSC was (and still is) a professional learning environment and is one of the best things I've done in CAP. If anything, I would think that you would want to avoid the schools that allow performance at a level below the minimum, but that's me.

In what way does wearing the polo destroy the learning environment? It's an official CAP working uniform.

[Eclipse]

So now wearing the golf shirt, in and of itself, is "performance below minimum"?

[ßτε]

Note that PCRSC is not at Nellis/LV this year:


https://pcr.cap.gov/region-staff-college/

[Ozzy]

Additional SER Details can be found here... https://sercap.us/information/events/region-staff-college.aspx
Additional NER Details can be found here... https://ner.cap.gov/rsc
Additional GLR Details can be found here... http://glrcap.usafaux.us/region-staff-college/

[jeders]

Honestly, I think that by using the wear of the optional polo uniform instead of the required minimum basic uniform as a measure of culture, you are doing yourself a massive disfavor. SWR RSC was (and still is) a professional learning environment and is one of the best things I've done in CAP. If anything, I would think that you would want to avoid the schools that allow performance at a level below the minimum, but that's me.

In what way does wearing the polo destroy the learning environment? It's an official CAP working uniform.

It doesn't; likewise, not allowing the polo does not indicate a bad culture at an RSC.

So now wearing the golf shirt, in and of itself, is "performance below minimum"?

No, but you yourself (I believe, it's early and I haven't had caffeine yet) have made the case many times on this forum that the polo is often worn by members who don't own or active refuse to wear the minimum required uniform. Many PD leaders will then allow the wear of the polo simply because that's the only uniform that participants have rather than requiring the wear of the minimum basic uniform.

Further, the polo uniform, or Corporate Working Uniform, is designed for just that, working. The appropriate uniform, per 39-1, for a PD event is a service uniform. If you would not wear a flight suit or utility uniform to a PD event, why would you wear their casual corporate alternative?

[TheSkyHornet]

Honestly, I think that by using the wear of the optional polo uniform instead of the required minimum basic uniform as a measure of culture, you are doing yourself a massive disfavor. SWR RSC was (and still is) a professional learning environment and is one of the best things I've done in CAP. If anything, I would think that you would want to avoid the schools that allow performance at a level below the minimum, but that's me.

In what way does wearing the polo destroy the learning environment? It's an official CAP working uniform.

It doesn't; likewise, not allowing the polo does not indicate a bad culture at an RSC.

So now wearing the golf shirt, in and of itself, is "performance below minimum"?

No, but you yourself (I believe, it's early and I haven't had caffeine yet) have made the case many times on this forum that the polo is often worn by members who don't own or active refuse to wear the minimum required uniform. Many PD leaders will then allow the wear of the polo simply because that's the only uniform that participants have rather than requiring the wear of the minimum basic uniform.

Further, the polo uniform, or Corporate Working Uniform, is designed for just that, working. The appropriate uniform, per 39-1, for a PD event is a service uniform. If you would not wear a flight suit or utility uniform to a PD event, why would you wear their casual corporate alternative?

I think it depends on the activity at-hand.

Some activities are deemed inappropriate for wearing a polo shirt, whereas others not so much a big deal. If you're spending your afternoon sorting personnel records, I don't see the need to slap on fatigues or a service uniform.

Granted, it also depends on the culture of the hosting organization, and the image those in charge want to portray. I think walking into a room where there are six different uniforms being worn looks odd; it looks jumbled together and unorganized. If everyone sat in a classroom wearing polos, not so much a big deal. Then again, if I walked into a classroom and everyone is wearing Class As, I'd be a bit confused.


Anyway...didn't mean to sidetrack this so much.

[Slim]

Not really current gouge on GLRSC as the college is going through a regime change after last year.

I finally broke down and went in 2017.  For the most part, it was energetic instructors and advisors, lessons were well presented, did a lot of networking that led me to attend an encampment outside my wing last year, and to command it this year.

The school fee was very reasonable at $50.  Meals were on our own dime, but reimbursed by GLR after the school.  Upside was that we ate in the base DFAC (walking distance from the school site).  I ate two meals a day (not much of a breakfast person), and spent less than $50 on meals.

Lodging options were all off base and on your own.  You could choose to stay in a hotel (some took advantage of the CAP discount at the local Red Roof, others more pricey options), or in a dorm room at Wright State University a couple miles away.  I stayed in the dorm with a roommate from my squadron for $110 each.  Wasn't very fancy, but we weren't there for much more than sleeping anyway, and they had free laundry facilities available.

Uniform expectation was blues or grey/white aviator sans ribbons for the week.  They made a couple of exceptions though; we were asked to wear polos for the tour of the AF museum (lest the public think we were museum staff or-in a few cases-exhibits), and we were allowed to wear them to class a couple of the days for comfort due to the high temps (low to mid 90s) and the fact that the A/C in the WP USO building was broken.

Wasn't a lot of spit and polish.  The expectation was for a group of adult officers to treat each other as such.

[Stonewall]

Not really current gouge on GLRSC as the college is going through a regime change after last year.

I finally broke down and went in 2017.

Too bad you didn't wait a year, couldbhave crashed in my basement. I'm <10 min from WSU dorms and 20-ish min from the USO building.

[TheSkyHornet]

Not really current gouge on GLRSC as the college is going through a regime change after last year.

I finally broke down and went in 2017.

Too bad you didn't wait a year, couldbhave crashed in my basement. I'm <10 min from WSU dorms and 20-ish min from the USO building.

Yeah, but rumor has it you're one who will initiate wake up by beating on the door, followed by a snap to attention, playing of "Reveille," followed by "To the Color."

[Stonewall]

Not really current gouge on GLRSC as the college is going through a regime change after last year.

I finally broke down and went in 2017.

Too bad you didn't wait a year, could have crashed in my basement. I'm <10 min from WSU dorms and 20-ish min from the USO building.

Yeah, but rumor has it you're one who will initiate wake up by beating on the door, followed by a snap to attention, playing of "Reveille," followed by "To the Color."

Lies. All lies.

[edit to fix quote]

[Eclipse]

Honestly, I think that by using the wear of the optional polo uniform instead of the required minimum basic uniform as a measure of culture, you are doing yourself a massive disfavor. SWR RSC was (and still is) a professional learning environment and is one of the best things I've done in CAP. If anything, I would think that you would want to avoid the schools that allow performance at a level below the minimum, but that's me.

In what way does wearing the polo destroy the learning environment? It's an official CAP working uniform.

It doesn't; likewise, not allowing the polo does not indicate a bad culture at an RSC.

So now wearing the golf shirt, in and of itself, is "performance below minimum"?

No, but you yourself (I believe, it's early and I haven't had caffeine yet) have made the case many times on this forum that the polo is often worn by members who don't own or active refuse to wear the minimum required uniform. Many PD leaders will then allow the wear of the polo simply because that's the only uniform that participants have rather than requiring the wear of the minimum basic uniform.

Further, the polo uniform, or Corporate Working Uniform, is designed for just that, working. The appropriate uniform, per 39-1, for a PD event is a service uniform. If you would not wear a flight suit or utility uniform to a PD event, why would you wear their casual corporate alternative?

Yes, I have, but in this case, RSC, at least during the classroom sessions, is the definition of a "working environment."

Are you a director or an instructor?  So be it, look the part, but what's the point of being in a dress shirt and tie
sitting in a room with a bunch of other FGOs while you argue about the cost of the beverages and lodging  for the capstone project?

This is fellow members, well out of the public's eye...

...working.

The banquet?  The best of what you own. Public tours? Sure. Maybe even for sign-in and the first general session, then go to lunch and change, but the whole week?

Is it just to make a point about a CAP that doesn't actually exist outside those walls?

[Eclipse]

Not really current gouge on GLRSC as the college is going through a regime change after last year.

I finally broke down and went in 2017.  For the most part, it was energetic instructors and advisors, lessons were well presented, did a lot of networking that led me to attend an encampment outside my wing last year, and to command it this year.

The school fee was very reasonable at $50.  Meals were on our own dime, but reimbursed by GLR after the school.  Upside was that we ate in the base DFAC (walking distance from the school site).  I ate two meals a day (not much of a breakfast person), and spent less than $50 on meals.

Lodging options were all off base and on your own.  You could choose to stay in a hotel (some took advantage of the CAP discount at the local Red Roof, others more pricey options), or in a dorm room at Wright State University a couple miles away.  I stayed in the dorm with a roommate from my squadron for $110 each.  Wasn't very fancy, but we weren't there for much more than sleeping anyway, and they had free laundry facilities available.

Uniform expectation was blues or grey/white aviator sans ribbons for the week.  They made a couple of exceptions though; we were asked to wear polos for the tour of the AF museum (lest the public think we were museum staff or-in a few cases-exhibits), and we were allowed to wear them to class a couple of the days for comfort due to the high temps (low to mid 90s) and the fact that the A/C in the WP USO building was broken.

Wasn't a lot of spit and polish.  The expectation was for a group of adult officers to treat each other as such.

When did you go to the circus?

[NIN]

I have slept in Stonewall's basement more than once. Can confirm reville and a full standby inspection, with junk on the bunk.

[Slim]

I have slept in Stonewall's basement more than once. Can confirm reville and a full standby inspection, with junk on the bunk.

Did he make you square away your personal area and shave with a rusty Bic too?

When did you go to the circus?

Too bad you didn't wait a year, couldbhave crashed in my basement. I'm <10 min from WSU dorms and 20-ish min from the USO building.

Had to go in 2017, needed to punch that last ticket to make Lt Col before the grandfather period expired.

[NIN]

I have slept in Stonewall's basement more than once. Can confirm reville and a full standby inspection, with junk on the bunk.

Did he make you square away your personal area and shave with a rusty Bic too?

Yup. Complete with half-Nelson body slam.

[jeders]

Yes, I have, but in this case, RSC, at least during the classroom sessions, is the definition of a "working environment."

I don't know what RSC you went to, but at mine we spent 90% of our class time sitting and taking notes. About as far from any definition of working that I'm familiar with. Now the evening seminar sessions did involve a lot of discussion and some moving around, hence the reason we wore our RSC t-shirts for that portion.

[TheSkyHornet]

I have slept in Stonewall's basement more than once. Can confirm reville and a full standby inspection, with junk on the bunk.

I knew it!

[Eclipse]

I have slept in Stonewall's basement more than once. Can confirm reville and a full standby inspection, with junk on the bunk.

Did he make you square away your personal area and shave with a rusty Bic too?

When did you go to the circus?

Too bad you didn't wait a year, couldbhave crashed in my basement. I'm <10 min from WSU dorms and 20-ish min from the USO building.

Had to go in 2017, needed to punch that last ticket to make Lt Col before the grandfather period expired.

I wasn't kidding about the circus.  GLR used to require attendance.

[Mitchell 1969]

I have slept in Stonewall's basement more than once. Can confirm reville and a full standby inspection, with junk on the bunk.

Did he make you square away your personal area and shave with a rusty Bic too?

When did you go to the circus?

Too bad you didn't wait a year, couldbhave crashed in my basement. I'm <10 min from WSU dorms and 20-ish min from the USO building.

Had to go in 2017, needed to punch that last ticket to make Lt Col before the grandfather period expired.

I wasn't kidding about the circus.  GLR used to require attendance.

Region CC had the popcorn and cotton candy concessions, did he?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Eclipse]

In abstract ways, that is not far from the truth.

At the time (2009) the RSC was held at Grissom, near Peru, IN which apparently is the "Circus Capitol of the World",
because circus shows inexplicable wintered there
back in the day.

They have an amateur circus that is touted as being run completely by kids under 18.
https://www.perucircus.com/

The RSC staff were very enamored of this place, and it was all they could talk about.
Attendance was mandatory as one of the "tours". I, and others, were sure it had to be that
we would be getting a backstage tour and to be shown how amazing adolescents could
be in managing such a complex business.

That made at least some sense as a Circus has a lot of moving pieces and could be compared to
a large cadet activity like an encampment, etc.

Um.  No.

We just went to the circus.

And not in any uniform (UOD was expressly civilian), and not even as a coherent group.
Just members who happened to drive together.

The result was random groups of middle-aged men going to a children's circus, without
families or kids of their own.

Yep.

Edit:  A re-read of this thread: http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=8393.0 reminded me
that Stonewall and I share a distinction, as well as the experience...

[Capt_Redfox30]

In abstract ways, that is not far from the truth.

At the time (2009) the RSC was held at Grissom, near Peru, IN which apparently is the "Circus Capitol of the World",
because circus shows inexplicable wintered there
back in the day.

They have an amateur circus that is touted as being run completely by kids under 18.
https://www.perucircus.com/

The RSC staff were very enamored of this place, and it was all they could talk about.
Attendance was mandatory as one of the "tours". I, and others, were sure it had to be that
we would be getting a backstage tour and to be shown how amazing adolescents could
be in managing such a complex business.

That made at least some sense as a Circus has a lot of moving pieces and could be compared to
a large cadet activity like an encampment, etc.

Um.  No.

We just went to the circus.

And not in any uniform (UOD was expressly civilian), and not even as a coherent group.
Just members who happened to drive together.

The result was random groups of middle-aged men going to a children's circus, without
families or kids of their own.

Yep.

Edit:  A re-read of this thread: http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=8393.0 reminded me
that Stonewall and I share a distinction, as well as the experience...

Eclipse yes that entire thing was a cluster the year you and I went! 

Not to mention to rest of the week, glad it was revised as it needed some major overhauls.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[West MI-CAP-Ret]

Honestly, I think that by using the wear of the optional polo uniform instead of the required minimum basic uniform as a measure of culture, you are doing yourself a massive disfavor. SWR RSC was (and still is) a professional learning environment and is one of the best things I've done in CAP. If anything, I would think that you would want to avoid the schools that allow performance at a level below the minimum, but that's me.

In what way does wearing the polo destroy the learning environment? It's an official CAP working uniform.

Good and honest question.

[Stonewall]

Edit:  A re-read of this thread: http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=8393.0 reminded me
that Stonewall and I share a distinction, as well as the experience...

Ha. I remember.  Hard to believe I went to RSC more than 15 years ago. I remember being the youngest person there by 10 years (I was 31) and getting a lot out of it, but not really enjoying it.  Cool part was, I stopped by NESA's graduation afterward and saw a whole bunch of friends.

[Slim]

In abstract ways, that is not far from the truth.

At the time (2009) the RSC was held at Grissom, near Peru, IN which apparently is the "Circus Capitol of the World",
because circus shows inexplicable wintered there
back in the day.

Ok, now I understand the reference.

Definitely much happier that mine was at Wright-Patt.  Only tour we did was the museum, and that was allotted a whole four hours on Wednesday morning, with the option of a guided tour or on your own.  I thought that was a bit of a letdown, as the last time I hit the AF museum, it took the better part of two days to see everything.  But it actually wasn't bad, I was able to see what I wanted (everything but the pre-WWII stuff in hangar 1) with time to spare.

[UWONGO2]

Note that PCRSC is not at Nellis/LV this year:


https://pcr.cap.gov/region-staff-college/

Bummer! That was the leader in the clubhouse for me. Does anyone know if it's under new management or just simply needed to move to a new location?

[Eclipse]

Oh, Man.  It's not in Vegas anymore?

The king is dead, long live the king.

[AlphaSigOU]

Note that PCRSC is not at Nellis/LV this year:


https://pcr.cap.gov/region-staff-college/

Bummer! That was the leader in the clubhouse for me. Does anyone know if it's under new management or just simply needed to move to a new location?

If they are unable to secure lodging and or classroom space because of military requirements, they have to have an alternate.

[PHall]

Note that PCRSC is not at Nellis/LV this year:


https://pcr.cap.gov/region-staff-college/

Bummer! That was the leader in the clubhouse for me. Does anyone know if it's under new management or just simply needed to move to a new location?

If they are unable to secure lodging and or classroom space because of military requirements, they have to have an alternate.

Actually, they were lucky to be there in the first place. Billeting at Nellis is always pretty tight. During stuff like a Red Flag exercise it's nonexistent.

[SARDOC]

Actually, they were lucky to be there in the first place. Billeting at Nellis is always pretty tight. During stuff like a Red Flag exercise it's nonexistent.

I've been there a few times for Green Flag and we never had billeting on base.  We were lodged a few blocks from the Vegas strip, I volunteered to go on these dets everytime it came up.

[GaryVC]

I went to Pacific Region Leadership School in 2018 and it was held in Palace Station on Sahara near the strip (but on the other side of I-15). I go to Nellis fairly often since I am retired from there and live in Las Vegas. We had tours of two places on base.

The Washington Wing/CC is now responsible for the course and they are holding it in that state this year. I wanted to be sure to go while it was still in Las Vegas. Just made it.

[PHall]

Joint Base Lewis-Mc Chord isn't a bad place. The billeting on base is pretty good and there are several off base hotels that are pretty good.
Air fares into SeaTac airport are usually pretty good. It's Alaska Airline's main hub.