The New CAPM 39-1 Now Available

Started by MisterCD, June 26, 2014, 05:25:56 PM

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Shuman 14

Quote from: Storm Chaser on July 09, 2014, 01:24:30 PM
Quote from: shuman14 on July 09, 2014, 01:14:34 PM
QuoteThe again, that's their uniform as I stated before and they can wear whatever they want. My original point was that, if we're going to emulate a service, it should be the Air Force and no other, as we're the Air Force Auxiliary.

Yet CAP authorizes more badges to be worn at one time than the USAF.  ???

Not true. Please read CAPM 39-1; with the exception of the command badge, only four badges can be worn at any given time. There's also specific placement of those badges. Where CAP departs from the Air Force is with number of patches authorized on the BDU.

I am mistaken, thank you for correcting me, just reviewed both the USAF and CAP instructions and you are right, my bad.
Joseph J. Clune
Lieutenant Colonel, Military Police

USMCR: 1990 - 1992                           USAR: 1993 - 1998, 2000 - 2003, 2005 - Present     CAP: 2013 - 2014, 2021 - Present
INARNG: 1992 - 1993, 1998 - 2000      Active Army: 2003 - 2005                                       USCGAux: 2004 - Present

lordmonar


Quote from: shuman14 on July 09, 2014, 12:43:13 PM
Quote from: lordmonar on July 09, 2014, 12:39:37 PM
We already got an acceptable shirt.

Please cite the the make, model and specifications please.
the one vanguard sells
PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

The CyBorg is destroyed

#502
Quote from: shuman14 on July 09, 2014, 12:27:05 PM
Most likely because the Army lives in ACUs these days. The only time you see most Soldiers outside of MDW in ASU or Dress Blues is at a formal function.

I have never seen a Soldier in anything but ACU (including local National Guard troops) for the past several years.

I have never even seen a Soldier wearing the "new" blue dress uniform.

However, I do have to admit that in the past, seeing Soldiers in the green dress uniform (which my dad hated; he was in during the changeover from the Ike jacket to the greens and wore his Ike jacket until the last possible time), with all the ribbons, bells and whistles, I wonder how they kept it all straight.  I think the only real "extra" my dad had was the blue Infantry shoulder cord and blue disks backing his collar brass...despite the fact that he was in an Armored (4th Armored) and not an Infantry division. ???
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The CyBorg is destroyed

Quote from: lordmonar on July 09, 2014, 03:34:16 PM

Quote from: shuman14 on July 09, 2014, 12:43:13 PM
Quote from: lordmonar on July 09, 2014, 12:39:37 PM
We already got an acceptable shirt.

Please cite the the make, model and specifications please.
the one vanguard sells

The regulations do not say that "the one Vanguard sells" is the only acceptable one.

In fact, you can get ones of near-identical cut and, in some cases, better quality fabric, at pilot shops (brick and mortar/cybershops).
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AlphaSigOU

Quote from: CyBorg on July 09, 2014, 05:27:04 PM
The regulations do not say that "the one Vanguard sells" is the only acceptable one.

In fact, you can get ones of near-identical cut and, in some cases, better quality fabric, at pilot shops (brick and mortar/cybershops).

The Van Heusen 'Aviator' is but one type of shirt that is acceptable per CAPM 39-1 (excerpt of the manual quoted below); I prefer wearing Pilot Shops relaxed fit oxford shirt; as it has mitered pocket flaps identical to the AF-style Class B shirt and is a pinpoint oxford. I never liked VH's poplin material (still have a couple I'd be willing to give away). It's convenient that ScamGuard sells it but it ain't the definitive shirt.
Quote4.2.5. Men's Aviator Shirt Uniform. (Figure 4.16)

4.2.5.1. Shirt (Long and Short-sleeved). White cotton-polyester blend aviator style shirt is authorized. Shirt must be oxford, pinpoint, poplin, or broadcloth fabric with white buttons. Two standard sewn flap pockets with no top openings and with or without pen slots. Pocket flap may have straight bottom or curved bottom and be buttoned. Scalloped flap pockets are not authorized. Straight collars only, no button downs. Two epaulet straps. No eyelets for badges. No military creases. Shirt will be tucked neatly into trousers.

4.2.6. Women's Aviator Shirt Uniform.
 
4.2.6.1. Shirts. One of these two shirts may be worn.
  4.2.6.1.1. Aviator Shirt (Long and Short-sleeved) (Figure 4.17). White cottonpolyester blend aviator style shirt is authorized. Shirt must be oxford, pinpoint, poplin, or broadcloth fabric with white buttons. Two standard sewn flap pockets with no top openings and with or without pen slots. Pocket flap may have straight bottom or curved bottom and be buttoned. Scalloped flap pockets are not authorized. Straight collars only, no button downs. Two epaulet straps. No eyelets for badges. No military creases. Shirt will be tucked neatly into slacks or skirt.   
4.2.6.1.2. Overblouse (Figure 4.18). White Overblouse (Long and Short-sleeved). Semi-form fitting princess line with two epaulets and short or long sleeved. With arms hanging naturally, long-sleeves will end ¼ to ½ inch below the wrist, but not be visible below the sleeves of the service coat. The long-sleeved blouse will have rounded cuffs with buttonhole closures on each cuff. The blouse may be modified at the member's expense to accommodate cuff links. White, V-neck or crew neck style undershirts are optional. If worn, they will be tucked into the skirt or slacks.
Lt Col Charles E. (Chuck) Corway, CAP
Gill Robb Wilson Award (#2901 - 2011)
Amelia Earhart Award (#1257 - 1982) - C/Major (retired)
Billy Mitchell Award (#2375 - 1981)
Administrative/Personnel/Professional Development Officer
Nellis Composite Squadron (PCR-NV-069)
KJ6GHO - NAR 45040

Panache

Quote from: AlphaSigOU on July 09, 2014, 06:32:02 PM
The Van Heusen 'Aviator' is but one type of shirt that is acceptable per CAPM 39-1 (excerpt of the manual quoted below); I prefer wearing Pilot Shops relaxed fit oxford shirt; as it has mitered pocket flaps identical to the AF-style Class B shirt and is a pinpoint oxford. I never liked VH's poplin material (still have a couple I'd be willing to give away). It's convenient that ScamGuard sells it but it ain't the definitive shirt.

Does anybody have any experience with the Elbeco "Wings" shirts?

AlphaSigOU

Quote from: Panache on July 10, 2014, 04:32:36 AM
Quote from: AlphaSigOU on July 09, 2014, 06:32:02 PM
The Van Heusen 'Aviator' is but one type of shirt that is acceptable per CAPM 39-1 (excerpt of the manual quoted below); I prefer wearing Pilot Shops relaxed fit oxford shirt; as it has mitered pocket flaps identical to the AF-style Class B shirt and is a pinpoint oxford. I never liked VH's poplin material (still have a couple I'd be willing to give away). It's convenient that ScamGuard sells it but it ain't the definitive shirt.

Does anybody have any experience with the Elbeco "Wings" shirts?

I haven't bought one but from reading their description on a couple of pilot uniform websites the flap pockets are 'non-functional' and accessed through a Velcro closure at the top of the pocket flap. As long as the pockets aren't used to stuff junk in (and believe me, it's a common uniform violation) it should be fine.
Lt Col Charles E. (Chuck) Corway, CAP
Gill Robb Wilson Award (#2901 - 2011)
Amelia Earhart Award (#1257 - 1982) - C/Major (retired)
Billy Mitchell Award (#2375 - 1981)
Administrative/Personnel/Professional Development Officer
Nellis Composite Squadron (PCR-NV-069)
KJ6GHO - NAR 45040

NIN

Quote from: CyBorg on July 09, 2014, 05:27:04 PM
The regulations do not say that "the one Vanguard sells" is the only acceptable one.

In fact, you can get ones of near-identical cut and, in some cases, better quality fabric, at pilot shops (brick and mortar/cybershops).

Flying Cross makes a shirt on their "Distinguished" line of shirts that is a white pilot shirt *copy* of the USAF blues shirt.

They are also the people who make those "higher end" wool-poly blend USAF blue shirts, so that makes sense. Both my short sleeve blues shirt and my aviator shirt are made by Flying Cross.

Unfortunately, I've had a difficult time finding the white Flying Cross Distinguished shirt.  I want to replace the short sleeve one and get a long sleeve, too.

Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
I have no responsibilities whatsoever
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2024 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

AlphaSigOU

Look at Flying Cross (Fechheimer's military/law enforcement line) Duro shirts... they have the identical style as the Distinguished line except in cotton/poplin. http://www.flyingcross.com/search.aspx?keyword=duro+poplin

According to Fechheimer's the military shirts are not available for sale to the general public. Oh, to have a standardized white shirt and gray trousers! (Fat chance! :D)
Lt Col Charles E. (Chuck) Corway, CAP
Gill Robb Wilson Award (#2901 - 2011)
Amelia Earhart Award (#1257 - 1982) - C/Major (retired)
Billy Mitchell Award (#2375 - 1981)
Administrative/Personnel/Professional Development Officer
Nellis Composite Squadron (PCR-NV-069)
KJ6GHO - NAR 45040

Shuman 14

Quotedespite the fact that he was in an Armored (4th Armored) and not an Infantry division.

Wear of the Blue Cord and Discs is by assignment to an Infantry Billet within any given type of Unit not by assignment to a Unit itself.

For example the cooks in the 1st Infantry Division do not wear the Cord and Discs because they are assigned to a Cook's Billet, the type of Division matters not.

In any given Armored Division there will be numerous Infantry Billets which would have authorized your father the right to wear the Cord and Discs.
Joseph J. Clune
Lieutenant Colonel, Military Police

USMCR: 1990 - 1992                           USAR: 1993 - 1998, 2000 - 2003, 2005 - Present     CAP: 2013 - 2014, 2021 - Present
INARNG: 1992 - 1993, 1998 - 2000      Active Army: 2003 - 2005                                       USCGAux: 2004 - Present

Camas

Quote from: Panache on July 10, 2014, 04:32:36 AM
Does anybody have any experience with the Elbeco "Wings" shirts?
I own a couple of these and I've been very happy with them. I highly recommend them.

SARDOC

Quote from: shuman14 on July 10, 2014, 12:21:39 PM
Quotedespite the fact that he was in an Armored (4th Armored) and not an Infantry division.

Wear of the Blue Cord and Discs is by assignment to an Infantry Billet within any given type of Unit not by assignment to a Unit itself.

For example the cooks in the 1st Infantry Division do not wear the Cord and Discs because they are assigned to a Cook's Billet, the type of Division matters not.

In any given Armored Division there will be numerous Infantry Billets which would have authorized your father the right to wear the Cord and Discs.

That's True.  I was in a Cavalry Unit...my Company was the infantry component...Blue Cords and Disks with the Cavalry Stetson and Spurs

supertigerCH

So, for the BDU and Field Uniform (BBDU), will CAP be changing from "Ultramarine Blue" cloth/tapes... to dark blue (Navy blue)?

Although this has been talked about (and somewhat expected) over the past year... the new 39-1 seems to be in conflict with its self over this.  For example... compare pages 67, 70, 71 with what it says/shows on page 125.


So do our BDU or BBDU uniforms allow us to wear dark blue (Navy blue) nametapes, CAP tapes, cloth rank... or not?

Anyone?


(Please read the parts of the new 39-1 that I indicated... then come back here and share your thoughts...)


vento

^^^ Most members believe we are to stay with the UltraMarine Blue based on the wording and that the illustrations in the new 39-1 are wrong.

LSThiker

Nevertheless, an RFI for clarification would not hurt.

Eclipse

There's no change.  The diagrams were re-done with the assumption of moving both field uniforms
to dark blue, then they were rushed out without being fully vetted at the last minute.

"That Others May Zoom"

The CyBorg is destroyed

Quote from: Eclipse on July 18, 2014, 04:35:00 PM
...then they were rushed out without being fully vetted at the last minute.

Which seems to happen far too often. ???
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Storm Chaser

Maybe someone who actually worked on this draft can shed some light on this.

The CyBorg is destroyed

Quote from: Storm Chaser on July 18, 2014, 05:24:04 PM
Maybe someone who actually worked on this draft can shed some light on this.

Are there any CT habitues who did work on it?
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Storm Chaser

I don't know, but it would be nice if someone could offer some factual information on what happened, other that conjectures or assumptions.