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ABUs

Started by MadGrak, September 15, 2011, 05:14:12 AM

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ol'fido

Quote from: flyer333555 on June 13, 2013, 08:47:24 PM
I propose that further talk about the ABU, until and if finally approved by the CAP and USAF bigwigs, be declared TABU...

Flyer
I don't know about TABU, but this thread went FUBAR a long time ago.
Lt. Col. Randy L. Mitchell
Historian, Group 1, IL-006

SarDragon

#281
Quote from: NorCal21 on June 14, 2013, 12:35:09 AM
Quote from: brent.teal on June 13, 2013, 09:10:36 PM
I'm probably the only one who thinks that the old maroon epaulets looked better, in the single instance of the class A's.  grey and dark blue just don't seem to mix too well.


No offense, but yeah... you're the only one. Maroon epaulets looked extremely stupid, had no heraldry associated with them like the grey does for the AF, and it made CAP look like the Boy Scouts or the Salvation Army.

To be completely honest, you're the first person I've ever heard say this.

Actually, there is some heraldry involved, since early WWII CAP uniforms had red epaulets. Not exactly the same color as the maroon, butt are still both shades of red.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

MHC5096

The epaulets on the service coat weren't designed for wearing the epaulet sleeves/shoulder marks/soft shoulder boards or whatever you want to call them. Regardless of color, they look ridiculous on the coat. That said, I too thought the maroon ones looked better for the short period of time we had them.
Mark H. Crary
Lt Col, CAP (1990-Present)
DDC-P, CGAUX (2011-Present)
MSgt, USAF (1995-2011)
QM2, USN (1989-1995)

Storm Chaser

#283
I didn't like the maroon epaulets. I was disappointed when the switched from blue and a bit relieved when they introduced the gray. The only thing I hate about the gray slides is wearing them with the service coat. I wish we had a better option.

NorCal21

Quote from: SarDragon on June 14, 2013, 08:52:04 AM

Actually, there is some heraldry involved, since early WWII CAP uniforms had red epaulets. Not exactly the same color as the maroon, butt are still both shades of red.

Well when I made that comment I was thinking AF in my head which I didn't type out.

NorCal21

Quote from: MHC5096 on June 14, 2013, 02:31:21 PM
The epaulets on the service coat weren't designed for wearing the epaulet sleeves/shoulder marks/soft shoulder boards or whatever you want to call them. Regardless of color, they look ridiculous on the coat. That said, I too thought the maroon ones looked better for the short period of time we had them.

OK, well I've now seen two people in my lifetime who liked the maroon. Never say never I guess. I just saw the contrast as too great and reminded me of either old Soviet uniforms (not the image we want to portray) or some banana republic.

I absolutely agree with you about the service coat and the epaulets.

NorCal21

Quote from: Storm Chaser on June 14, 2013, 04:21:11 PM
I didn't like the maroon epaulets. I was disappointed when the switched from blue and a bit relieved when they introduced the gray. The only thing I hate about the gray slides is wearing them with the service coat. I wish we had a better option.

Another person I agree with. I think the slides look stupid on the coat.

Personally, I wish I could have com in enlisted. CAP regs state that I can join CAP as an enlisted person if I were an NCO in the service. Upon applying, and having everyone up through Wing say yes, National says no. Why? Because I was an E-4. An E-4 in the AF isn't an NCO. I replied back to them, with my letter being co-signed by my squadron, group and wing commanders that CAP regs don't require that the NCO be AF equivalent. It simply says NCO.

I wanted that because I earned my rank. While I've earned each officer rank in CAP through CAP requirements, its not quite the same to me. Plus, the benefit would have been (tying it back to this conversation) that I'd sew on the stripes and not have to worry about EVER changing them! Save me lots of money!

Shuman 14

Quote from: MHC5096 on June 14, 2013, 02:31:21 PM
The epaulets on the service coat weren't designed for wearing the epaulet sleeves/shoulder marks/soft shoulder boards or whatever you want to call them. Regardless of color, they look ridiculous on the coat. That said, I too thought the maroon ones looked better for the short period of time we had them.

Well Sir as the newbie here and as the outsider looking in I agree that the grey epaulets do look a little off and I can see how some CAP members might be put off by them and how it could feel like a "mass punishment" for an offense committed over twenty years ago.

When I was in HS I can vaguely remember CAP Officers wearing the letters "CAP" in place of the letters "US" on the tunic lapels and a different nametag, but otherwise they looked exactly like an USAF Officer.

There is Good, and Bad, in that.

One Team - one Fight, with a common uniform and a common look is the good thing.

Being confused for an USAF Officer is the bad.

Both are subject to abuse by unprofessional CAP members trolling for salutes.

Maybe you could take an example from the USCGAux on their office insignia.

I know the silver vs gold USCG style shoulder boards might not work for CAP but all USCGAux pin-on and sew-on insignia (i.e. rank) all have a superimposed letter "A" for Auxiliary on them. So maybe a solution would be to create rank insignia with a superimposed "CAP" on them? Using red (or maroon) as the letter color will make them stand out on the silver or gold rank device.

Another solution might be to create a colored felt or plastic backer to your rank insignia like the light blue discs used by US Army Infantry personnel. This would create a colored border around your rank which make it clearly different at a glance but not look as "off" as the current grey epaulets. Again a red border (or maroon) around your rank on the blue coat/jacket/tunic epaulets would actually look very good.

Plus with modern embroidery, making epaulet slides for your shirts with either superimposed red "CAP" letters or a red rank borders (or both) on a blue slide would not be hard.

Again just a suggestion from someone outside your organization who thinks you do great work and wants you to look good while doing it.
Joseph J. Clune
Lieutenant Colonel, Military Police

USMCR: 1990 - 1992                           USAR: 1993 - 1998, 2000 - 2003, 2005 - Present     CAP: 2013 - 2014, 2021 - Present
INARNG: 1992 - 1993, 1998 - 2000      Active Army: 2003 - 2005                                       USCGAux: 2004 - Present

brent.teal

#288
I suppose we need a new thread.  I'll start one.

Here http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=17543.msg315608#msg315608
Brent Teal, Captain. CAP
NER-PA-102 Deputy Commander, Communications officer, or whatever else needs doing.

Shuman 14

OK, moving my post above there.
Joseph J. Clune
Lieutenant Colonel, Military Police

USMCR: 1990 - 1992                           USAR: 1993 - 1998, 2000 - 2003, 2005 - Present     CAP: 2013 - 2014, 2021 - Present
INARNG: 1992 - 1993, 1998 - 2000      Active Army: 2003 - 2005                                       USCGAux: 2004 - Present

Peterbiltprison

If you want new go with the Marine Corps woodland modern, Also why doesn't CAP switch to OD and black name tapes and everything else it seems like we are trying to copy what the air force use to use during Vietnam.

Abby.L

Every time someone comments on this thread,  a kitten dies.

Now, we don't want the internet to run out of fuel, now do we?  ::)
Capt Abby R. Lockling
SSgt(Sep) USAF, 41ECS
Charlie flight, NBB 2013

ol'fido

Quote from: Levi Lockling on June 22, 2013, 05:22:44 AM
Every time someone comments on this thread,  a kitten dies.

Now, we don't want the internet to run out of fuel, now do we?  ::)
Somebody tell Al Gore to invent harder.
Lt. Col. Randy L. Mitchell
Historian, Group 1, IL-006

Garibaldi

Quote from: ol'fido on June 22, 2013, 08:17:14 PM
Quote from: Levi Lockling on June 22, 2013, 05:22:44 AM
Every time someone comments on this thread,  a kitten dies.

Now, we don't want the internet to run out of fuel, now do we?  ::)
Somebody tell Al Gore to invent harder.
Every time someone listens to Justin Bieber, we get further away from ABUs.
Still a major after all these years.
ES dude, leadership ossifer, publik affaires
Opinionated and wrong 99% of the time about all things

ol'fido

Quote from: Garibaldi on June 22, 2013, 10:42:35 PM
Quote from: ol'fido on June 22, 2013, 08:17:14 PM
Quote from: Levi Lockling on June 22, 2013, 05:22:44 AM
Every time someone comments on this thread,  a kitten dies.

Now, we don't want the internet to run out of fuel, now do we?  ::)
Somebody tell Al Gore to invent harder.
Every time someone listens to Justin Bieber, we get further away from ABUs.
I don't listen to her either.
Lt. Col. Randy L. Mitchell
Historian, Group 1, IL-006

NorCal21

On topic but changing it...

A great movie to watch to see the old fatigues in action is Super 8. Good movie, and you really get to see the old uniforms. I actually kind of like them.

Майор Хаткевич

Could have been a CAP unit from the 80s!

Equinox

Quote from: NorCal21 on June 23, 2013, 05:56:54 AM
On topic but changing it...

A great movie to watch to see the old fatigues in action is Super 8. Good movie, and you really get to see the old uniforms. I actually kind of like them.

The Colonel in that movie wasn't wearing his collar insignia correctly. Just saying...
Signature edited.  Violation of Membership Code of Conduct.

Equinox

Signature edited.  Violation of Membership Code of Conduct.

Cessna Man

I actually like BDUs a whole lot better than ABUs. And also we aren't trying to hide from anybody so why worry about the uniform. :clap:
C/CMSgt Capron
Cadet Commander
Primary CAC Representative