Quick question on cadet to senior transfer

[I_Am_Twigs]

I myself will be facing this issue in the near future, and a current friend of mine is trying to navigate this puzzle; how does one transfer their cadet experience to the senior member program? After reading CAPR 35-5, and comparing it to my friends situation, I'm left very confused.

She left for a church mission a couple of years ago for only a year and a half, and came back to join the program as a senior member. Upon coming back, she learned that her cadet grade would not transfer over to the senior side (she got her Mitchell). She ended up moving and transferring to a new squadron, which ended up saying the same thing. After reading CAPR 35-5 though, it states that cadets may receive advanced grade (paragraph 3.7). Must a cadet reach the age of 21 and age out for this to be applicable< or are they able to switch to senior member before 21 and still receive this advanced grade upon turning 21?

[I_Am_Twigs]

To add on, she did wait until she was 21 before she made the switch. She's also been told by several others that this sort of advanced promotion isn't a thing anymore

[Eclipse]

This is correct. Under 21 cadets wear / hold Flight Officer grade.

[JohhnyD]

And over 21, special promotions are at the CC's discretion. My units have almost always promoted prior cadets but some units choose not to.

[Eclipse]

She's also been told by several others that this sort of advanced promotion isn't a thing anymore

She was given incorrect information, they certainly are a "thing".

What grade was she when she moved to the Senior Program?

Mitchell = 2nd Lt
Earhart = 1st Lt
Spaatz = Capt

Also Professional Development Education and Training (or whatever they are calling it this week).
(member must apply for these directly to NHQ)

Mitchell - some portions of Level I waived.
Earhart (and Eaker) - Tech in CP + equivalency credit in some Senior Programs
Spaatz - Senior in CP, Yeager, + equivalency credit in some Senior Programs

[I_Am_Twigs]

This is correct. Under 21 cadets wear / hold Flight Officer grade.

I was aware of that, but do you receive the advanced grade when you turn 21?

She was given incorrect information, they certainly are a "thing".

What grade was she when she moved to the Senior Program?

Mitchell = 2nd Lt
Earhart = 1st Lt
Spaatz = Capt

Also Professional Development Education and Training (or whatever they are calling it this week).
(member must apply for these directly to NHQ)

Mitchell - some portions of Level I waived.
Earhart (and Eaker) - Tech in CP + equivalency credit in some Senior Programs
Spaatz - Senior in CP, Yeager, + equivalency credit in some Senior Programs

She was a C/2d Lt. She did say that they made a "note and sent it to nationals" (that's how she worded it), but that it only got her half the rank she had already done, which I assume means half of the 2d Lt requirements.

[Eclipse]

She was a C/2d Lt. She did say that they made a "note and sent it to nationals" (that's how she worded it), but that it only got her half the rank she had already done, which I assume means half of the 2d Lt requirements.

"Half the rank"?

There's no allowance for a waiver for TIG, either she's bumped to the gold bar early
as a former cadet, or she has to serve 6 months and complete the parts of L1 not waived.

Someone at the unit is misinformed, isn't interested in the conversation, or your friend
is only relaying 1/2 the story or only 1/2 paid attention.

[I_Am_Twigs]

Yeah I'm not entirely sure what she meant by that, but that is how she worded it.

What would be the best course of action for this sort of situation?

Also, for myself, I do not plan to age out of the cadet program since I will be doing other stuff after I get my Spaatz, so will I receive advanced grade upon turning 21 regardless of my time as a flight officer?

[Eclipse]

What would be the best course of action for this sort of situation?

The only course she has is discussing this with her CC and working it out -
show the reg instead of relying on word-of mouth, and explain what she is
eligible for.

Frankly any Unit CC who would not advance a former cadet to 2d Lt on
going Senior needs to explain "why", since the net here is just a few months
earlier promotion.

Also, for myself, I do not plan to age out of the cadet program since I will be doing other stuff after I get my Spaatz, so will I receive advanced grade upon turning 21 regardless of my time as a flight officer?

Yes, you will be eligible for all the things listed in this thread upon turning 21.

Cadets going Senior before 21 are eligible for the below:

Mitchell - FO
Earhart - TFO
Spaatz - SFO

[I_Am_Twigs]

Awesome, that answers my questions. Thank you!

[Dad Jokes]

CAPP 40-08 has all the info on transitioning.

https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/P_4008_A9E28CE5A54F9.pdf

[wacapgh]

CAPR 35-5, 3.7

3.7. Former CAP Cadets.
Upon reaching age 21, former CAP cadets who reached certain levels of achievement in
the CAP cadet program are eligible for appointment to the officer grades outlined in figure
5. (See figure 11 for grades authorized former cadets under age 21).

Cadet Award    Grade Authorized
Mitchell       Second Lieutenant
Earhart        First Lieutenant
Spaatz         Captain
Figure 5. Officer Grades Authorized for Former CAP Cadets Age 21 and Older.



Once you have your Senior membership, fill out a CAPF 2, 2nd,Lt, Special Appointment, Mitchell.
Unit Commander is authority for 2nd Lt. Sign and email to Lmmeforms@capnhq.gov

[Toad1168]

And over 21, special promotions are at the CC's discretion. My units have almost always promoted prior cadets but some units choose not to.

I'd be interested to see the justification they give for not signing off on the promotion.  Because, quite frankly, its earned just like any other special appointment.

[JohhnyD]

And over 21, special promotions are at the CC's discretion. My units have almost always promoted prior cadets but some units choose not to.

I'd be interested to see the justification they give for not signing off on the promotion.  Because, quite frankly, its earned just like any other special appointment.

Sometimes former cadets are less mature, sometimes there are other, specific issues the CC is aware of. These are NOT automatic, they are not "earned" per se, they are discretionary.

[NovemberWhiskey]

Sometimes former cadets are less mature, sometimes there are other, specific issues the CC is aware of. These are NOT automatic, they are not "earned" per se, they are discretionary.

All promotions are discretionary, and cadet-to-senior advanced grade is no less earned than duty performance promotions. Where do you read otherwise in the regulation?

[JohhnyD]

All promotions are discretionary, ...

Exactly what I said.

[Fubar]

While they are in the book as discretionary, I've never seen anyone not get their automatic promotion. Any kind of wavering turns on the drama so fast that no commander wants to deal with it and just signs it.

If there was some kind of meaning or value to CAP rank I suspect people would take the discretionary part more seriously.

[baronet68]

And over 21, special promotions are at the CC's discretion. My units have almost always promoted prior cadets but some units choose not to.

I'd be interested to see the justification they give for not signing off on the promotion.  Because, quite frankly, its earned just like any other special appointment.

Was the promotion submitted in accordance with the CAPR 35-5? 

1.8.3. Mission related skills, professional appointments and special appointment promotions must be requested by submitting a CAPF 2. Upon ensuring that the individual is qualified for promotion under one of the above methods, a CAPF 2, in sufficient copies to allow each approving echelon to retain a copy and to provide National Headquarters with one copy, will be initiated...

In other words, this type of promotion must be submitted on a paper CAPF 2 that is actually filled out in multiple copies and sent through the chain of command for approval.



If the promotion is not approved, the commander MUST provide justification/reasoning:

1.8.5. If any commander in the chain of command disapproves a recommendation for promotion or request for waiver, he or she will so indicate, providing a reason for the denial, over his or her signature on the CAPF 2 and will return the CAPF 2 to the initiator through channels. If the National Awards and Promotion Team denies a request for waiver, it will provide a reason for the denial and return the request to the initiator through channels. In neither case does such disapproval preclude the individual from being recommended for promotion at some future date.

If the promotion was submitted via a hard-copy CAPF2, per the regulation, and the promotion was denied without providing WRITTEN reasons on said CAPF 2, then it's time to collect copies of the paperwork and contact the Inspector General.

[Capt Thompson]

These are NOT automatic, they are not "earned" per se, they are discretionary.

I would argue that a Cadet who made Mitchell or Earhart "earned" their Grade with a lot more sweat and tears than a Senior who joined 6 months ago and went through L1 and half of L2 to get their butter bar. Denying this promotion will only push it back 6 months, which won't make that much of a difference in their maturity, so there's no reason not to approve the promotion as soon as they make the switch.

[GroundHawg]

Maybe a goofy question here

All of the lateral promotions to Capt show Spaatz and SFO. Do you still get Capt as a non Spaatz SFO? Or is it 1LT?