Multiple Badges Question/Discussion

[majdomke]

I haven't seen this question posted so I figure I'll post it here...

I have an AF Occupation Badge - Security Police, and CAP Ground Team badge. While the regs say nothing about wearing more than one specialty badge above the left tape, it never says you can either. It does allow for the wear of multiple badges such as wings, ground team, etc... When I questioned NHQ they said only one was allowed and I would need to decided which one to wear. This would apply on both the BDU and Service Dress uniforms. Since getting the ruling I've followed their instructions. This past weekend I attended a wing activity and noticed at least two other senior members wearing their AF occupation badges and ground team badges. Trying to be nice, I let them know what NHQ says on this and they said it was in the regs and allowed. Who am I to argue but it needs to be more clear, and I feel allowed since we could wear our military wings if we had them. Any thoughts or ideas?

[Eclipse]

You're only allowed one, other people breaking the reg and looking like goobers not withstanding.

We (CAP) are allowed one specialty badge and one aviation badge, no matter where its worn, and the AF Occupation badges are considered a specialty badge.

The only exception is if you choose to wear a set of military wings over CAP wings, it look ridiculous, but it is allowed, in which case you'd have to forgo the GT/AFO badges in total.

The EMT badge is the same situation - its considered a specialty badge, and you have to pick one or the other, not wear both.

As to letting others know when they've made a mistake, you did your best and unless they are below you in the chain, you have to FIMO.

[Hawk200]

Wear of Air Force occupational badges has actually become a lot less clear with the latest 39-1. It used to be that they could be worn in the same manner as specialty insignia, with the military badges worn over CAP badge, but CAP wings would be worn over military badges or wings.

Now, it's not so obvious. On BDU's, most people I knew that wore a military and CAP badge, wore either blue on white mil badges, or else wore a sudbued badge over their (white on blue) CAP badge. I wouldn't put it the other way around, from a distance it would look like you have a bright color one two inches above the tape.

Although it's not authorized, I've seen a member that had Air Force subdued wings on his Blue BDU. It looked tacky. It would have been easier to turn a blind eye to it if the AF wings had been blue on white.

My thoughts would be the same as those wearing a mix. BDU's: subdued on top, so it wouldn't stand out. On blues, mil badge on top. Just make sure measurements and centering is right. You'll get a lot less hassle if you look squared away, rather than having something looking out of place that people will notice.

As far as what National says on it, a lot of times there has been conflicting information. As you noted, there were many that wore two AF occupational badges. The manual does not specify that only a single AF occupational badge is permitted.

Use the manual, don't go on hearsay. There have been instances of Vanguard personnel that have tried to tell members of supposed "uniform policies".

[jimmydeanno]

You're only allowed one, other people breaking the reg and looking like goobers not withstanding.

I haven't been able to find anything that supports that statement. 

Table 6-2 says

Specialty Insignia (Chaplain, Legal, Medical, EMT, Ground Team): Men: centered 1/2 inch above the left breast pocket or 1/2 inch above ribbons. Women: centered 1/2 inch above top row of ribbons; when no ribbons are worn, positioned on the left side of the blouse or coat, 1/2 inch above imaginary row of ribbons. If
the wearer is also authorized to wear a CAP aviation badge, the specialty insignia will be worn 1/2 inch beneath the wings, except the chaplain insignia which is worn above the aviation badge.

NOTE 2: 2. A maximum of four earned badges may be worn on all blue service uniforms. A maximum of two
badges are worn on the left side of the uniform above ribbons, or welt of pocket if ribbons are not
worn.

Table 6-3, which applies to the aviator combo says

Specialty Insignia (see Table 6-2 for list) (see note): centered 1/2 inch above the left breast pocket. If
aviation badge is worn, the specialty insignia will be centered 1/2 inch below the aviation badge. Either miniature or regular size badges may be worn. Only one specialty insignia may be worn.

NOTE: The CAP aviation badge and one additional CAP badge for a maximum of two badges, may be worn.

Seems kind of odd that they specifically spell out that you can only wear one specialty insignia on the aviator but don't make the same specific restriction on the AF style service uniforms.  It even says no more than 2 badges are worn on the left side above ribbons.

For BDUs it says:

Specialty Insignia (Chaplain, Legal, Medical, EMT, Ground Team): centered 1/2-inch above
the cloth "Civil Air Patrol" tape worn over the left breast pocket of BDU, field uniform and BDU or dark blue field jacket, 1/2 inch below aviation badge. EXCEPTION: chaplain insignia is worn 1/2 inch above the aviation badge.

US Military Badges: On the BDU as prescribed by the US Air Force

The USAF prescribes that you can wear two AF Occupational Badges on your BDUs.

We (CAP) are allowed one specialty badge and one aviation badge, no matter where its worn, and the AF Occupation badges are considered a specialty badge.

Again, only appears, by 39-1 to apply to the aviator uniform.

The only exception is if you choose to wear a set of military wings over CAP wings, it look ridiculous, but it is allowed, in which case you'd have to forgo the GT/AFO badges in total.

"US Military Aviation Badge (Awarded in writing by competent authority.) Centered 1/2 inch above the pocket or ribbons on the left breast. CAP aviation badges are worn 1/2 inch above military badges.

[Flying Pig]

I would not say it looks ridiculous.  Maybe to you.  I have known many members who do.  Enlisted Military Aircrew with CAP Pilot Wings.  Even gold Marine Corps Parachute Wings with CAP Pilot/Observer badges.  I knew several Forward Air Controllers in the Marines who had pilot wings and gold parachute wings.  I think it looks sharp.  Ive seen Enlisted USMC Combat Aircrew Wings and CAP Observer Wings.  Ridiculous isnt the word that came to mind.  I also really like when I see military badges on uniforms.  I think it goes a long way for our program to show the types of people we can recruit.  Especially when we have military aviators.  Sorry, but I would give their military wings a lot more weight over the same wings a Private Pilot can wear after completing a Form 5. Maybe those of you who dont have them dont agree, but I have had several conversations started after a military member noticed I was wearing USMC ribbons.

[lordmonar]

It is in the regulation....if you choose to interpet it that way.  

The reg says a total of four, two above the pocket.  But in the table it implies that they mean one speciatly badge and one set of wings.

But the regulation is not very clear.

So.....it is wrong according to National....but not so wrong to get your pants into a wad about it.

[Eclipse]

Rather than get into more reg-quoting mania, use search, we hashed this at length earlier in the year.

Yes - 39-1 is inconsistent.  Also, water is wet, fire is hot.

We argued for a while, then several of us consulted NHQ and the above was their answer, including the notes about EMT badges.

Accept it or don't, but you won't find a concrete answer in the texts.

[Stonewall]

What?  I can't wear this? 

[Eclipse]

Awesome.

[RiverAux]

Get one of those commander badges on the pocket and you'll be all set. 

[Hawk200]

What?  I can't wear this?  ....

You forgot to add the smiley, Kirt....

[winterg]

What?  I can't wear this? 

Freaking Awesome! LOL

[Flying Pig]

What?  I can't wear this?  ....

You forgot to add the smiley, Kirt....

But he's serious.

[Trung Si Ma]

What?  I can't wear this? 

Only if you upgrade the five jump chump wings 

Long time ago, we wore what we had in the military.  I still have a BDU shirt in the closet with the CIB, Master O wings, and Master Para above the CAP tape and the "Dope on a rope" wings with the master Ground Team Badge on the pocket flap.  Add in the commo badge, ES Patch, Squadron Patch, Wing Patch, and the Aerial Radiological Monitoring Patch and it's quite colorful.  I also have a picture with me wearing it while doing Project X at NSC. 

When I had the Fayetteville Composite Squadron (now MER-NC-007), we had more people with jump wings and CIB/CFMB/EIB/EFMB on their BDU's than we had with CAP badges on them.  Of course, that was before the plethora of new badges came out for the "I've never earned anything in my life" crowd.

Wear the golf shirt, its easier.

[Flying Pig]

What?  I can't wear this? 

Only if you upgrade the five jump chump wings 

Long time ago, we wore what we had in the military.  I still have a BDU shirt in the closet with the CIB, Master O wings, and Master Para above the CAP tape and the "Dope on a rope" wings with the master Ground Team Badge on the pocket flap.  Add in the commo badge, ES Patch, Squadron Patch, Wing Patch, and the Aerial Radiological Monitoring Patch and it's quite colorful.  I also have a picture with me wearing it while doing Project X at NSC. 

When I had the Fayetteville Composite Squadron (now MER-NC-007), we had more people with jump wings and CIB/CFMB/EIB/EFMB on their BDU's than we had with CAP badges on them.  Of course, that was before the plethora of new badges came out for the "I've never earned anything in my life" crowd.

Wear the golf shirt, its easier.

Man....thats a must post photo.  Gotta see it!

[Trung Si Ma]

Man....thats a must post photo.  Gotta see it!

I'm TDY at Benning right now, but will look for it when I get home next week.

[BuckeyeDEJ]

When I had the Fayetteville Composite Squadron (now MER-NC-007), we had more people with jump wings and CIB/CFMB/EIB/EFMB on their BDU's than we had with CAP badges on them.  Of course, that was before the plethora of new badges came out for the "I've never earned anything in my life" crowd.

I had to laugh when I read this. But it brings up something that I think was touched on here, and doesn't make sense.

Why does a CAP aeronautical rating take precedence over a MILITARY aeronautical rating? No CAP decoration takes precedence over a military one, so why should an Air Force pilot stack his CAP pilot's wings OVER his Air Force wings? I call Bravo Sierra on that.

Someone care to riddle me that one?

[Hawk200]

.... But it brings up something that I think was touched on here, and doesn't make sense.

Why does a CAP aeronautical rating take precedence over a MILITARY aeronautical rating? No CAP decoration takes precedence over a military one, so why should an Air Force pilot stack his CAP pilot's wings OVER his Air Force wings? I call Bravo Sierra on that.

Someone care to riddle me that one?

The arrangement is similar to the Air Force policy on other military branch wings. On an Air Force uniform, wings from another branch of service would go below any set of Air Force wings. CAP is treating Air Force wings as "other branch" badges, and mandating them below CAP ones.

I don't think it makes sense either.  But how do you arrange it for all the aviation badges? Could get a little wierd: "Air Force aviation badges will be worn above CAP aviation badges, unless it's a Tuesday, and you're wearing a Navy badge, then....."

How to solve it? I think it would be appropriate for Air Force wings to be over other branches, then CAP wings. Just a thought, but it seems to make sense. Not sure how many people would agree. Yea or nay, anyone?

[Major Carrales]

Why does a CAP aeronautical rating take precedence over a MILITARY aeronautical rating? No CAP decoration takes precedence over a military one, so why should an Air Force pilot stack his CAP pilot's wings OVER his Air Force wings? I call Bravo Sierra on that.

Someone care to riddle me that one?

I would say because it is a CAP uniform, thus, a CAP badge as operational precedence. 

CAP Officers in CAP Uniforms with US military wings will likely not be flying US Military aircraft, but they will be in CAP aircraft.  Thus, a set of USAF wings has no operational significance on a CAP uniform.  Its purpose is more to display respect to that CAP Officers US Military service.

I would go as far as to say that we are pretty lucky to be able to wear any US Military badges on CAP uniforms.   Actually, if it were up to me (and it's not) only CAP badges and patches would be allowed on CAP field uniforms.   I, however, would probably (again, if in charge) continue to allow them as an hommage.

[jb512]

There is nothing ridiculous about wearing two sets of wings.  I do, and I think it looks just fine.  There are a couple of prior Navy guys here who wear their AF and Navy wings on both their blues and their flight suit nametag and nobody talks trash to them.