CAP Former Cadets Successes & Failures

[RADIOMAN015]

Interestingly CAP's "Volunteer" magazine seems to be reaching out to former cadets that have been successful & are involved in newsworthy activities.

I think it's great that they are doing this.  Bet there's many former cadets (including myself) who currently have or have had successful military and/or civilian careers, that of course remain unpublished/unrecognized.

HOWEVER, even from my cadet days (over 30 years ago) I've got to wonder what ever happend to some of the cadets in the program (both those that were in cadet leadership roles above me & those that were my subordinates).   

In my current position, one of my duties is to pre screen (personal interview) all job applicants for our warehouse/distribution center operations.  Awhile back I had an approx 20 year old applicant come in and listed Civil Air Patrol as an activity he had pariticpated in.   During the interview process (I did not reveal I was in CAP), I probed what he had accomplished while in the program - he had not gone very far in the program.  He talked highly about his squadron commander & basically infered that in retrospect he should have stayed in the program.

Got to wonder how many other cadets we get that drop out of the program, years later reflect on the wrong turns they made in life, including dropping out of the cadet program
RM         

[RiverAux]

Well, almost every single cadet drops out of the program before completing it (obtaining a Spaatz). 

[Major Carrales]

Well, almost every single cadet drops out of the program before completing it (obtaining a Spaatz).

This is true, because of this I try to make everyone's service as a CAP cadet meaningful.  From the one that does "one year" to the one that completes the program (of which I only know one personally from our area).

[JohnKachenmeister]

Well, almost every single cadet drops out of the program before completing it (obtaining a Spaatz).

The Mitchell is considered, at least by most of us, as "Completing" the cadet program.  The rest of the awards are for going beyond the basic minimums of the cadet program.

But... I get your rhetorical point!

[JohnKachenmeister]

I'd like to see a comprehensive listing of former cadets and their objective achievements.  Maybe a questionaire circulated nation wide.

Questions like:

-  How far did you get in the cadet program... highest achievement?

-  College attended?  Degrees earned?

-  Highest military rank achieved?

-  Present position?

-  Awards and honors earned?

-  Lowest security level prison you have been housed in?

-  Parole/probation/work release/drug rehab attempts/honor grad from Anger Management class?

[Eclipse]

The Mitchell is considered, at least by most of us, as "Completing" the cadet program.

By whom?

The Mitchell is the mid-point, no more, no less. 

Your statement smacks of former double-diamonds who blew Spaatz and still talk about how they "really" completed the program.

-  Lowest security level prison you have been housed in?

-  Parole/probation/work release/drug rehab attempts/honor grad from Anger Management class?

Heh...

[Major Carrales]

The Mitchell is considered, at least by most of us, as "Completing" the cadet program.

By whom?

The Mitchell is the mid-point, no more, no less. 

Your statement smacks of former double-diamonds who blew Spaatz and still talk about how they "really" completed the program.

-  Lowest security level prison you have been housed in?

-  Parole/probation/work release/drug rehab attempts/honor grad from Anger Management class?

Heh...

Kach is correct, in my area completing the Mictchell is about as far as people go locally (actually...Mary Fiek, C/SrA).  Since it is the point by which advanced rank is given in the military, most strive for this and are off to the Military.

Those that don't go off to the military are either off to College (and unable to continue...or in an unfamiliar area where CAP is fundamentally different) or on to life, where work or family means CAP is on home (cadet Career is over)

Eclipse, we have a classic case of "book" experiences (Mitchell is actually the middle) and real world pragmatism (Mitchell is considered circumstantially) the end. 

[Ned]

FWIW, I did the math a few years ago (after going to the Library of Congress and pulling every available Report to Congress since 1947), and there are nearly one million former cadets lurking out there, somewhere.

Statistically, most of them are still alive.

Of course, most did a year or less and may not feel very "attached" to the CP.  Or any more than their high school Chess Club.   

But NHQ is working on establishing a comprehensive Cadet Alumni Association to help identify our former cadets and allow them to network a bit and be recognized.

Indeed, I was just out at the Air Force Academy last month talking to the professionals at the Association of Graduates on how we might stand it up.

Ned Lee
National Cadet Advisor
(Cool job, crummy job title)

[RiverAux]

Even if we say that the Mitchell represents the completion of the CAP program, that still means that 85% failed to complete it.  (According to the knowledgebase). 

I've always been in favor of some sort of rigorous evaluation of most of our programs to see how effective they are.  It would be somewhat difficult for the cadet program in particular since you would have to account for the widely varying time spent in the program by cadets (months to almost a decade). 

[Major Carrales]

Even if we say that the Mitchell represents the completion of the CAP program, that still means that 85% failed to complete it.  (According to the knowledgebase). 

I've always been in favor of some sort of rigorous evaluation of most of our programs to see how effective they are.  It would be somewhat difficult for the cadet program in particular since you would have to account for the widely varying time spent in the program by cadets (months to almost a decade).

Impossible...there are cadets that get on the role and then never show up to a meeting.  You would label that as a "failure" blame some well meaning people for that.

I would say that, out of 10 cadets, 1 may make it to Spaatz, 2 Mitchell, 3 Wright Bros. and 4 are "airmen/airmen basics for life."

[RiverAux]

10% of cadets are getting the Spaatz?   You must be in the Brazilian CAP cause thats not whats happening in the US where it is less than 1%.   Even if you want to play the "active" vs "inactive" game, its no where near 10%. 

I didn't say a cadet was a failure if they didn't reach some specified point or that CAP has failed if every cadet doesn't reach some point.  I was just pointing out the fact that most of our cadets don't go as far as the cadet program allows.  I don't think that would ever be possible anyway. 

[Major Carrales]

10% of cadets are getting the Spaatz?   You must be in the Brazilian CAP cause thats not whats happening in the US where it is less than 1%.   Even if you want to play the "active" vs "inactive" game, its no where near 10%. 

I didn't say a cadet was a failure if they didn't reach some specified point or that CAP has failed if every cadet doesn't reach some point.  I was just pointing out the fact that most of our cadets don't go as far as the cadet program allows.  I don't think that would ever be possible anyway.

Oh, I forgot you were a stats junkie. 

[Eclipse]

Eclipse, we have a classic case of "book" experiences (Mitchell is actually the middle) and real world pragmatism (Mitchell is considered circumstantially) the end.

Seriously, who considers it the "end".

I've never heard that in my AOR - many consider it a "goal before quitting", since its the last point at which there is practical, outside CAP benefit, but considering the Mitchell the "end" is like saying First Class Scout is the practical end of the BSA because its the point you can join the Leadership Corps (or was BITD).

I don't think anyone, or at least very few, cadets leave CAP as Mitchells thinking they've completed anything.  To perpetuate this idea is just lowering the bar.

[RiverAux]

I think the issue that the original poster was getting at was the amount of exposure to the cadet program that it takes to have a positive impact on a cadet's life.    I don't think that can be linked to a particular achievement.  Obviously, a cadet who only sticks around for a few months won't have really gotten anything from the program.  But, I would hope that a cadet who has been in for at least 12-24 months has learned a lot that can help them later in life.   

[Major Carrales]

Eclipse, we have a classic case of "book" experiences (Mitchell is actually the middle) and real world pragmatism (Mitchell is considered circumstantially) the end.

Seriously, who considers it the "end".

I've never heard that in my AOR - many consider it a "goal before quitting", since its the last point at which there is practical, outside CAP benefit, but considering the Mitchell the "end" is like saying First Class Scout is the practical end of the BSA because its the point you can join the Leadership Corps (or was BITD).

I don't think anyone, or at least very few, cadets leave CAP as Mitchells thinking they've completed anything.  To perpetuate this idea is just lowering the bar.

No one is perpetuating anything...rather that is how it works in practice.  Now, demonstrate higher numbers going on the Spaatz and you can claim otherwise.

Not all of us can exist in an area where CAP has existed in strength for decades. 

[PHall]

The Mitchell is considered, at least by most of us, as "Completing" the cadet program.

By whom?

The Mitchell is the mid-point, no more, no less. 

Your statement smacks of former double-diamonds who blew Spaatz and still talk about how they "really" completed the program.

Depends on when you were in the program. Until the early 60's, the Certificate of Proficiency, which became the Mitchell Award in the "new" program, was the highest you could go in the program.

And BTW, how far did YOU get in the program?

[Eclipse]

I'll have Level 4 completed next week after RSC.

Though how far any one person gets in the program is irrelevant to the discussion of what "completing" it is.

Many Senior make the argument Level 4 is the "completion" of the program because its the last level where you get any grade with it. 

That's not how it works.  If you don't make Level 5, you didn't complete the program.

[RiverAux]

I don't think that you can say that senior members have or have not "completed" the program since there isn't an actual senior member program in the same way there is a cadet program.  The cadet program is much more stand alone than the senior PD program which is focused on developing CAP leaders.  There is no requirement that seniors advance in this program in the way that cadets are required to advance in the cadet program.   

[Major Carrales]

I'll have Level 4 completed next week after RSC.

Though how far any one person gets in the program is irrelevant to the discussion of what "completing" it is.

Many Senior make the argument Level 4 is the "completion" of the program because its the last level where you get any grade with it. 

That's not how it works.  If you don't make Level 5, you didn't complete the program.

To me, "completing" the program as a Senior involves being active.

[JohnKachenmeister]

The Mitchell is considered, at least by most of us, as "Completing" the cadet program.

By whom?

The Mitchell is the mid-point, no more, no less. 

Your statement smacks of former double-diamonds who blew Spaatz and still talk about how they "really" completed the program.

-  Lowest security level prison you have been housed in?

-  Parole/probation/work release/drug rehab attempts/honor grad from Anger Management class?

Heh...

Well, I was never a DD, and I did not "Blow" Spaatz, since I never even approached it.

You see, Back in the Day there was this thing called a "Draft."  When you hit 18, you did not have the luxury of hanging out and trying for Spaatz.  If you did not make a decision about the military, the Selective Service System would make it for you.

Most cadets get the Spaatz around 19-20 years old.  I was 19 when I reached the sunny shores of South Vietnam.  I turned 20 in Da Nang, happy to spend my birthday back in the rear with the gear.