CAP Former Cadets Successes & Failures

[JohnKachenmeister]

Too true, Flyboy.

I had what I consider to be a very successful cadet squadron in that I had, during my command tenure:

1 appointment to USMA
1 Appointment to the AF Academy
1 ROTC 4-year full scholarship
1 Army Warrant Oficer pilot
1 USCG enlistee

But... I also had one of the more spectacular failures.  One cadet, who never was able to deal with the discipline (but his dad thought he needed "Structure") got caught in a house burglary.  Not a biggie, sure, but...

The driver that took him to the burglary and would have driven him away had they not got caught was the mother of the cadet appointed to USMA!  And, she was the ex-wife of a police lieutenant. 

How these two got together... I'll never know!   

[ricks]

[The disgraced ex-Spaatz cadink] is serving life at the 'Huntsville Hilton'. (Ellis Unit, Texas Department of Corrections). [The disgraced Earhart cadink] is doing life at the 'Gatesville Hilton' (Mountain View Unit, TDC). Neither one will be eligible for parole until at least 2036.

Those two had a drive that was deadly. So ingrained was their direction and determination that they got caught up in themselves and it turned tragic. This is the root of my belief that the CAP cadet program should be focused more on ES and less on the military. WIWAC I knew them both. We were all in the same squadron and ran with the same crowds. We were not into drugs or anything but we were on the other side, uncompromising, completely dedicated. The murder happened after I had left for the Army and after they had gotten their appointments to the Academies back in '95. That is one of those things I will always remember. After I enlisted I learned that the military was not rigid or uncompromising. I learned that it was a job like many others. I learned that a soldier could have compassion. I wish they would have had learned more compassion while cadets as opposed to believing that their true military bearing was so harsh and unyielding. The cadet program at this squadron at the time was very robust with senior cadets believing that they knew how to be hard because they watched Platoon. I know that this probably makes little sense to anyone here but it is along time coming for me. I know that the CAP did not make David and Diane killers but I do believe that the false beliefs that they learned as cadets contributed to their crazy wacked-out belief system.

And no, neither is on death row as far as I know.

[Rotorhead]

Uhhhhhhh.....its a youth organization.  I think whats more important is what you do after, not what CADET rank you earned.

What is a youth organization? Civil Air Patrol?

That's gonna come as a big surprise to the members of my Senior squadron.

I don't think they will be surprised to learn that the cadet program is the largest part of CAP in terms of personnel involved and manhours expended.

After all, I'll bet they have done more than their share of supporting o-rides and things like encampment.

Neither of which make CAP a "youth organization."

[Flying Pig]

^Dude...relax.  You missed the context in which the comment was made.  I didnt mean CAP is a youth organization.  I meant the CADET PROGRAM is a youth organization.

And HEY.....I made it to C/2Lt., and Im the biggest loser I know.

[Major Carrales]

Uhhhhhhh.....its a youth organization.  I think whats more important is what you do after, not what CADET rank you earned.

What is a youth organization? Civil Air Patrol?

That's gonna come as a big surprise to the members of my Senior squadron.

I don't think they will be surprised to learn that the cadet program is the largest part of CAP in terms of personnel involved and manhours expended.

After all, I'll bet they have done more than their share of supporting o-rides and things like encampment.

Neither of which make CAP a "youth organization."

I am tempted to make the comments that follow in earnest, however, these are things I subscribe to and cannot dictate to the masses to adopt the view of CAP I have developed in my 11 years of service to it.  However, here I write for the benefit of all that read... 

"When you joined CAP, you joined an organization with three distinct Congressionally Charted Missions, not just some compartment of it.  Welcome to the CADET PROGRAM, and the EMERGENCY SERVICES and the AEROSPACE EDUCATION.   Sorry if you thought otherwise.

If you "didn't sign up for that,"  then I respectfully suggest you review your relationship to the organization.  Unless it is I that is in the wrong...or it is wrong to try a WHOLE CAP approach."

Presented for personal ponder.

[SarDragon]

I am tempted to make the comments that follow in earnest, however, these are things I subscribe to and cannot dictate to the masses to adopt the view of CAP I have developed in my 11 years of service to it.  However, here I write for the benefit of all that read... 

"When you joined CAP, you joined an organization with three distinct Congressionally Charted Missions, not just some compartment of it.  Welcome to the CADET PROGRAM, and the EMERGENCY SERVICES and the AEROSPACE EDUCATION.   Sorry if you thought otherwise.

If you "didn't sign up for that,"  then I respectfully suggest you review your relationship to the organization.  Unless it is I that is in the wrong...or it is wrong to try a WHOLE CAP approach."

Presented for personal ponder.

Then why does CAP have three different types of squadrons - Cadet, Composite, and Senior?

According to your model, only the first two can approach adequately embracing all three missions. The best a senior squadron can do is provide cadet O-flights, if the unit has an airplane.

I understand, and support your point, but until the basic structure changes, your approach will not universally succeed.

When my last squadron folded, we shopped around for places for solutions to support the members in new units. The local senior squadron, where I ended up, was approached about absorbing our unit and becoming a composite squadron. The response was a resounding NFW, literally, from more than one member. The cadets ultimately went elsewhere, and everything turned out OK.

Some adult members want nothing to do with the under 21 set. They have varied reasons, all logical and proper in their own minds. Until that mindset is radically changed, the problem will remain.

YMMV.

[Major Carrales]

Then why does CAP have three different types of squadrons - Cadet, Composite, and Senior?

Alright, let me put up another "straw man" and we'll see which scarecrow the Wizard gives a brain to.  Tell me then, why do we have 100% Cadet Protection?

Seems to me because any person in CAP might at times be called to work with cadets.

According to your model, only the first two can approach adequately embracing all three missions. The best a senior squadron can do is provide cadet O-flights, if the unit has an airplane.

And that is their contribution.  They might also participate in Flight Academies and other activities.  I know in Texas, aircraft are pressed into service for that.

I understand, and support your point, but until the basic structure changes, your approach will not universally succeed.

The point I am trying to make is that CAP Officers cannot simply "ignore" the Cadet Programs mission because it is a convenient thing to do to maintain their aspect.  Cadet Programs is equal to Emergency Services.  A person offended that CAP is called a "Youth Program" is just as insipid as someone who is offended because CAP is called an "Emergency Services" organization.

Yes, there are some places where CAP is all Cadet, as in a school setting.  In Corpus Christi (South Texas' Coastal Bend) we do both.  Cadets get in on some ES and CAP Aviators do not turn to stone if they see a cadet (or communicate with one via CAP COMM being stationed by CADET MROs)

When my last squadron folded, we shopped around for places for solutions to support the members in new units. The local senior squadron, where I ended up, was approached about absorbing our unit and becoming a composite squadron. The response was a resounding NFW, literally, from more than one member. The cadets ultimately went elsewhere, and everything turned out OK.

I hope you are not proud of that.  Turning away brother and sister CAP members (yes, the Cadets are your brother and sister airmen also)  I am almost ashamed by what you have written.

Some adult members want nothing to do with the under 21 set. They have varied reasons, all logical and proper in their own minds. Until that mindset is radically changed, the problem will remain.

When CAP goes to Capital Hill, remember that the funding and support comes to all parts.  I can tell you from conversations with Congressmen that I have had via correspondence and face to face that there are some legislators that wouldn't give support to CAP (not a nickle) if the Cadet Program were not a part of it.  I also know an almost equal number with strong feelings about ES.  AE is looked at as Educational and universally accepted by those I know.

So, until it is understood that we need to work as a unified CAP...we will never be out of the danger that we will be cut.

[SarDragon]

When my last squadron folded, we shopped around for places for solutions to support the members in new units. The local senior squadron, where I ended up, was approached about absorbing our unit and becoming a composite squadron. The response was a resounding NFW, literally, from more than one member. The cadets ultimately went elsewhere, and everything turned out OK.

I hope you are not proud of that.  Turning away brother and sister CAP members (yes, the Cadets are your brother and sister airmen also)  I am almost ashamed by what you have written. 

No, I am not proud of that. It wasn't "my" unit when that happened, and gladly,many of those negative folks are no longer with us. We are active in the O'flight program (yes, we have a plane), but the major concentration remains on ES. We have even participated in cadet ES train9ing with other units.

However, the fact remains that the three missions of CAP will not be truly universal, whether by geography, demographics, or, sadly, attitude. My entry into CAP was in the mid-'60s, as a cadet. Throughout that time, there have been changes, both positive and negative, with regards to unit mission and makeup, but the disparity remains.

You have identified a problem. Now, what's your plan?

[Major Carrales]

You have identified a problem. Now, what's your plan?

I'm a CAP Officer, not Jesus.  Thus, I can only present a plan that effects the area where I am in command.  My unit, and its offers, all have the WHOLE CAP approach.  They understand that we are in it for the whole of the program.

While some concentrate on ES and CD, they don't run from the cadets like cowards.  They serve as mentors, take pride in the cadet's achievements and understand that if they are to place the proper number of mandated hours by the Wing and Group they had better fly O-flights.

They are interested in news of cadets going to encampments and to powered and glider encampments.  And do you know why this is so?

Because, above all, they know that from those cadets will come the GA aviators of tomorrow.  From those cadets marching in squares and circles or learning radios and shaping up will come those pilots that will purchase fuel from the FBOs, display their airmanship in the skies where they will all fly and maybe be the CAP Pilots that continue the unit.

We do our part...now, what are you doing about it in your area?

[SarDragon]

Because, above all, they know that from those cadets will come the GA aviators of tomorrow.  From those cadets marching in squares and circles or learning radios and shaping up will come those pilots that will purchase fuel from the FBOs, display their airmanship in the skies where they will all fly and maybe be the CAP Pilots that continue the unit.

Gold star for the Major! That's exactly what many senior squadrons lose track of.

[Johnny Yuma]

The Mitchell is considered, at least by most of us, as "Completing" the cadet program.

By whom?

The Mitchell is the mid-point, no more, no less. 

Tell it to the Air Force. At least when it comes to getting E3 when you enlist, they want to see your Mitchell certificate as proof of completion of the cadet program. Their words, not mine.

[Robert Hartigan]

Also don't forget that AFROTC Det Commanders can give credit for part of the General Military Course to cadets who receive the Spaatz, Earhart, and Mitchell Awards during any academic term of the GMC.