Civilian Homeland Security Force

[Auxpilot]

I heard a news clip yesterday that Obama wants to create a Civilian Homeland Security Force that is "just as well funded as the military."

Not sure how he would do that, or who would run it, but it would be interesting to hear the input from others on how something like that would work, if it would work, or if it would be just another big government turd in the punch bowl that creates another hole in the budget.

[A.Member]

I heard a news clip yesterday that Obama wants to create a Civilian Homeland Security Force that is "just as well funded as the military."

Not sure how he would do that, or who would run it, but it would be interesting to hear the input from others on how something like that would work, if it would work, or if it would be just another big government turd in the punch bowl that creates another hole in the budget.

The last thing you said.  It's really a stupid idea.

[JAFO78]

^^Just wait if he gets in WE will be the best funded as he will cut the whole military budget.

Sorry not a political statement. We wouldn't want to make any of them here at CAPTalk.

[notaNCO forever]

 What he wants to do sounds like a National Guard on a national level instead of a state level.

[cnitas]

Civilian Homeland Security Force that is "just as well funded as the military."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secret_police

KGB
Securitate
Stasi
Secret Police

Standard Communist party stuff.

[Flying Pig]

Thats awesome!   Stand by ladies and gents.  This time next year Ill be taking my dual Form 5 in the new CAP UH-60 CAPHAWK and doing cadet O-rides in our fleet of Cessna Citations.  Its the Utopia that Ive only imagined in my wildest dreams!

[jeders]

I heard a news clip yesterday that Obama wants to create a Civilian Homeland Security Force that is "just as well funded as the military."

Not sure how he would do that, or who would run it, but it would be interesting to hear the input from others on how something like that would work, if it would work, or if it would be just another big government turd in the punch bowl that creates another hole in the budget.

Any citation for that? I'd like to read/hear/see that myself.

[Smithsonia]

Actually the integration of U.S. military and civil/domestic capability is good and coming along. The ICS system comes straight from the Military General's Command Staff system. Both systems work. Both have different jobs (one is built for war and one is obviously not) both have divisions of responsibility, specific assignments, and are scalable from auto accidents/small fire fights to nuclear war/domestic nuclear terrorism incidents.

I've advocated for years that each side of this equation study each other up-close. Sheriff's/State Adj. Generals/Wild Land Fire/Hurricane FEMA response teams should all attend some military maneuvers. BUT, not on the shoot and loud bang side but the quiet computer room command staff side.

That said, the military can learn a lot from the Sheriffs about public accountability and servicing civilians inside their Theater of Command/Operations. This cross pollination should be done NOW. It should be ongoing. It should build. I know the Posse Commitatis  (sp?) issues will come up. Those can be worked through by lawyers. That said, Homeland Security money should be spent to align and cross train to get better knowledge into the field. FEMA, CAP, National Guard, HSD, FBI, Marshalls, Red Cross, Salvation Army, Coast Guard, etc. all should have strike force quick response self supported teams that can make it to the field in a timely basis with follow up support coming within 48 hours. The trick is to be disciplined and ready. Trained and tested. Cocked and ready to rock. Cross trained and interoperable. We've got enough people, we need a better plan. We need better training. We need to be serious. Sign me up.

[Rob Sherlin]

  I think as long as we get true Americans in a frame of mind to be aware of the problem, and act on it when they notice something is wrong, then we don't need a "spacial program" for it. Working at a hotel thats less than a half a mile from the Canadian/US border, I've got to know a lot of Border Patrol and US custom agents who let me know a lot of the problems and what to look out for. There are a lot of unwanted people sneaking in through Canada, that somehow, they are not catching (look at the individuals responsible for 9/11, that's how they got in). There's a lot of money laundering, There's people from India coming in from Canada, buying businesses, forming LLC's, getting the grants and loans that NY. and the city offers them with the promise they'll fix up the hotel and bring in more jobs. Then, they pocket all the money (ok, maybe paint a wall, or walkway to show they're doing something with the money) , milk the business for all it's worth, then disolve the LLC and run back across the border, with huge debts to everyone they've delt with (utilities, government, and private businesses), that are almost impossible to collect (and the state lets them get away with it over and over again). I have always wondered why when they sell the hotels, they will only sell to other people from India, but turn down offers for more money from Americans.....There's something wrong with that!
  Bottom line is...you have a bordering country who's immigration laws are somewhat easy, you have ourselves with a pretty much "open door" policy where it's not to hard to get amnesty once you're here, you have coruption (or
 The people I've met here since I've moved here know this is going on, but don't do anything about it. Things are so bad that they tend to think, "Well, at least I have a job working for them......for now anyway!"
  I put emphises on that subject because I've seen it time and time again since I've been here. I've wrote to the Newspapers, the City, the County, and the Satae, but nothing is done and it gets me irritated because I see it as economic abuse from people who are not even American...Therefore, I kind of see it as economic terrorism. The money that is given to them comes from taxpayers, and they keep getting away with it......No wonder why NY. taxes are so high!
  I just thinnk more people should be aware, and take more of a stand when they think or see something isn't quite right. If (even at city level) they only hear a handfull of people complaining, it will get filed (you know what I mean). If there's hundreds complaining, they'll at least have to look into it.
  If anything, it should be our duty as Americans to do something about it. W'ere letting people from other countries to come in, abuse funds, American workers, and other businesses they deal with,then get away with it. Meanwhile, our country is in economical chaos! Who's to say these people aren't using the money we give them for some other cause that's against us...They're certainly not using it for what it's meant for.
  Wow! Maybe I went overboard on the length of this, but what I've seen and delt with really irritates me (especially because if you're American you have to go through heck to get deals for your own business like that, and they abuse it at our expense).

 Thanks for letting me vent...I promise I'll watch the lenth of my posts from now on.

[Rob Sherlin]

OOPS1
  Sorry, that missing part was ...there's coruptive deals on either the city level or beyond to let this continue...someone has to be getting something out of it to let this happen!

  I realize I didn't edit the post...so forgive the errors please

[cnitas]

Any citation for that? I'd like to read/hear/see that myself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt2yGzHfy7s

Comment was on July 2

"We cannot continue to rely on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives that we've set. We've got to have a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded."

The context for that statement was a preview of parts of his plan to vastly expand community service opportunities.

[jeders]

Any citation for that? I'd like to read/hear/see that myself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt2yGzHfy7s

Comment was on July 2

"We cannot continue to rely on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives that we've set. We've got to have a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded."

The context for that statement was a preview of parts of his plan to vastly expand community service opportunities.

CAP and other volunteer and community service organizations are great. But I really don't want a program where I'm being defended by people who can walk away at any time without consequences because they're "just volunteers"

[Flying Pig]

Unfotunately, civilian "volunteers" don't protect anyone, no matter what their title.   If they are going to invest money into programs for Homeland Security, I would like to see it go to beef up the ranks of the gunslingers and intelligence ranks.  Lets face it, when it hits the fan, its not civilian volunteers who take care of it.  I know there are many who are committed, but I dont want to see military level spending put up to train people who might be "busy" when the call comes.  Regardless of what many people may think, there is a completely different level of commitment with people who's paid profession is "protecting".  Its paid men and women with guns and badges, or both, who get it done in the end.

[A.Member]

I know the Posse Commitatis  (sp?) issues will come up.

And there ends the discussion.  The Act was created for a purpose. 

In addition, aside from being a meaningless and unneeded "proposal", how on God's green Earth does he plan to pay for all these silly proposals? 

Oh yeah, that's right:
After election, Democrats will call for 25% decrease in military spending

After the November election, Democrats will push for a second economic stimulus package that includes money for the states' stalled infrastructure projects, along with help paying for healthcare expenses, food stamps and extended unemployment benefits, U.S. Rep. Barney Frank said Thursday.

In a meeting with the editorial board of The Standard-Times, Rep. Frank, D-Mass., also called for a 25 percent cut in military spending, saying the Pentagon has to start choosing from its many weapons programs, and that upper-income taxpayers are going to see an increase in what they are asked to pay.

The military cuts also mean getting out of Iraq sooner, he said...

...' We don't need all these fancy new weapons. I think there needs to be additional review."

I'm all for fiscal responsibility and accountability but to call for a 25% reduction in military spending at a time when so much equipment needs replacement is ridiculous and even irresponsible.

[Flying Pig]

The one thing that irks me when the number "$10 billion per month" is used to talk about Iraq, the salaries and everyday expenses of the military are included.  Costs that would be there whether we were fighting a war or not.  You can make stats show anything you want.  Which I think is dangerous when people start using it to justify significantly decreased military spending.

[Sleepwalker]

This is a great big BAD idea!  With respect to Smithsonia, it is also unconstitutional.  You cannot have the Military (of any sort!) policing America!  That is what our founders from George Washington on have fought against since before the Constitution was even a rough draft.  A "Civillian Homeland Security" would have the potential to allow these forces to be unleashed against anyone who is "unpatriotic", defined by whomever is in power.  Let's not go there! 

(Note: Read the historical rise of people like Hitler and Stalin, and how they went about doing it)

[BigMojo]

...and he shall call it "US Ranger Corp"

[RiverAux]

Boy, did you fellas get so hopped up with Pres. Bush proposed a similar program a few years ago?  Nothing really came of it either. 

[Flying Pig]

What exactly did he propose though?  It wasn't anything near military spending levels for a volunteer force.  Put in the right context if you are going to use the comparison

[Smithsonia]

Sleepwalker;
I didn't say the military should police America. I said we should learn to organize ourselves (National Guard, CAP, Homeland Security, Salvation Army etc.) SO that we can work with anybody under any circumstance. The military is figuring this out. For instance when the Army needs an Air Strike they can call on Navy, when Marines need a rescue they can call upon Army, etc. We should learn and take notes. We should apply this knowledge in our fields of work. There are lesson we can apply. Once again the ICS System that we are practicing is built from a military model.

If we can't learn and apply these lessons in the field then the Real Deal Military will be saving our collective hind-quarters and you'll see people begging to have the 1st Division drive into every town every time there's a Katrina... which is what happened in Katrina. General Honore was a full Army two star under Marshall law with real soldiers under his command. This happens when things get out of hand. My point is to NOT let it get out of hand. In other words work to higher levels of competency using every trick in the book. The Air Force and Army have some good books and good people. Go on a Air Force guided assessment for the CAP some time and you'll see the difference. My point is to not wait for this assessment cycle to come around but seek out the best emergency planning and adapt it to our missions.

Adapt, modify, practice, utilize, or not. We make this deal of learning every good lesson that is inside all of the Government or we lose our funding by becoming useless when the chips are down.