NEC Winter Meeting

[sjtrupp]

Did I miss the November meeting for the NEC? 

I didn't see the email with the link to watch it and I haven't seen any posts on it, but I also can't find when the next meeting is in the minutes of the previous meetings either.

thanks,

sjt

[FW]

The meeting dates are 7-8 November.  Meeting should be streamed.

[RiverAux]

As usual, they have not posted an agenda anywhere so that members can review it and provide comments through their CoC. 

[dwb]

As usual, they have not posted an agenda anywhere so that members can review it and provide comments through their CoC. 

They decided to drop the facade that the NEC cares about your opinion. 

[RiverAux]

A "disgruntled former member" on another site has been advocating for big changes in CAP leadership.  It will be interesting to see if anything happens on that front, though since it is only the NEC probably won't. 

[Ricochet13]

Here's what I was able to find.

[RiverAux]

Thanks Ricochet....

Some interesting items....

Proposal to move the command patch on airplanes from the doors to the rudder to make it more visible and be similar to what AF does -- NHQ/LG doesn't like it though.

Revision to CAPR190-1 public affairs regarding the planning process (a monster waste of time in many cases)

More power for CAP legal officers at Wing and higher levels.

Moving damage assessment authority to Region.

Allowing commanders down to group levels to put units in their command on logistics freezes.

Might re-address the issue of Legislative officers who get quickie promotions to Lt. Col.

[RiverAux]

And apparently we've stopped putting out draft regulations for comment as the draft 190-1 hasn't been featured anywhere of which I am aware.  I like how the proposal says that the PA plan process has been "nationally accepted" when in fact it has never gone out to comment from the field.  I suppose again that if its discussed at the PAO Academy it has had all the review it needs....

[Steve Kuddes]

If anyone would like to send me comments concerning any of the Agenda items, I will be able to see them before we start discussing them Friday.  I reviewed them with my Wing commanders and have their comments which always offer me some other views.

I don't think we should make decisions for the membership without membership input.

I welcome them sent to my personal e-mail if you wish some privacy on your comments.

Steve W. Kuddes, Colonel, CAP
Commander, North Central Region

[IceNine]

How sad   

I just got a wild hair and was half way through a letter to my wing commander asking him to bring up the fact that rarely is the membership made aware of agenda's and even more rare of the meeting minutes... then low and behold I can find no regulatory guidance showing that we are supposed to see these things.

I also can't find guidance saying that we are supposed to be allowed to review r/m/p/etc changes.

If anyone can find some hard facts I will gladly start a front on my end

[Pylon]

My assessment of moving the Command Patch on Planes:  Waste of time and resources.   There are a million more pressing things on which to be spending what few dollars CAP has (whether that be national or wing dollars).  This is not one of them. 

Take those dollars and buy a camera, fund a training event, invest in a billboard, rehabilitate an old van, sponsor a cadet to an activity, build a tool, put it in bonds or a CD for a rainy day, whatever... don't spend a dollar needlessly moving decals on our planes around.

[Cecil DP]

Regarding MG Courter being made a permenant BG. Amend the regulation to say that it becomes permenant upon being elected to the position of National Commander after having served successfully as National Vice Commander. 

[RiverAux]

How sad   

I just got a wild hair and was half way through a letter to my wing commander asking him to bring up the fact that rarely is the membership made aware of agenda's and even more rare of the meeting minutes... then low and behold I can find no regulatory guidance showing that we are supposed to see these things.

I also can't find guidance saying that we are supposed to be allowed to review r/m/p/etc changes.

If anyone can find some hard facts I will gladly start a front on my end

CAPR 5-4

2c. The NHQ OPR shall coordinate draft regulations, manuals or revision thereof with NHQ directorates and, when applicable, other affected agencies in accordance with established NHQ CAP procedures. When a draft regulation, manual or revision is referred to a committee, the OPR will coordinate with that committee, in addition to the appropriate NHQ and CAP-USAF directorates. The OPR will edit the draft regulation, manual or revision based on inputs received during coordination and will submit the draft regulation to the NHQ publications manager to be posted for 30 days on the NHQ website for comment by the volunteer membership. The NHQ publications manager will promptly notify the National Board, CAP-USAF and such other parties as designated by the National Commander, National Vice Commander and/or National Chief of Staff, of such posting.

[PhoenixRisen]

Someone's playin' a joke on us....


A CAP meeting minute document with no uniform changes on it?!


Oh my gosh!   

[badger bob]

How sad   

I just got a wild hair and was half way through a letter to my wing commander asking him to bring up the fact that rarely is the membership made aware of agenda's and even more rare of the meeting minutes... then low and behold I can find no regulatory guidance showing that we are supposed to see these things.

I also can't find guidance saying that we are supposed to be allowed to review r/m/p/etc changes.

If anyone can find some hard facts I will gladly start a front on my end

CAPR 5-4

2c. The NHQ OPR shall coordinate draft regulations, manuals or revision thereof with NHQ directorates and, when applicable, other affected agencies in accordance with established NHQ CAP procedures. When a draft regulation, manual or revision is referred to a committee, the OPR will coordinate with that committee, in addition to the appropriate NHQ and CAP-USAF directorates. The OPR will edit the draft regulation, manual or revision based on inputs received during coordination and will submit the draft regulation to the NHQ publications manager to be posted for 30 days on the NHQ website for comment by the volunteer membership. The NHQ publications manager will promptly notify the National Board, CAP-USAF and such other parties as designated by the National Commander, National Vice Commander and/or National Chief of Staff, of such posting.

The NEC and the National Board are looking at and approving policy changes. If the NEC approves moving assessment authority to the Region Commander from CAP/USAF, then the aircraft, supply, vehicle, and communications regulations will be rewritten. Draft regulations will be posted prior to implementation.

[RiverAux]

At least two cameras this time! 

[RiverAux]

According to CAP-USAF:

kudos for hurricane work.  Praise for SWR region-level exercises.

1st CAP aircraft to get full motion video transmission (similar to Predator) should be in field in LA in LA.  Funds ready for second a/c.  Long-term initiative to get up to 20 more stationed all around the country.  1AF strongly supports and is up at NORTHCOMM.  multi-year project.

[RiverAux]

Notes on Nat Cdrs/EX DIR briefing:

Unfortunately we're getting yet another logo for public affairs use -- the one seen with the citizens serving communites tagline.  New mission statement and vision statement -- said too quickly for me to copy. 

Now have 1500 Aerospace Ed members.  44% increase.

Kuddes: Ongoing multi-wing mission in NCR.  Big blizzard.  SD/NB/ND.  CAP doing some flying looking for downed power lines, stranded motorists.  Airports closed, so having trouble getting in air. 

Recent mission slides -- 4 states doing fire watch.

Slightly down in overall flying hours.  But, increase in number of AF mission flying hours. 

25 wing doing AFJROTC o-flights.  CAP doing about half of all jrotc flights. 

67 middle schools in CAP-1800 cadets
k-5 program.  Now called ACE program (not Junior Cadet).  7500 students involved.  Still in testing phase. 

7% increase cadet o-rides last year, 27% increase in glider o-rides
still not spending all cadet scholarship money.

Going to be an "Organizational Effectiveness" specialty track now.  This is basically the commanders specialty track but apparently will be open for everybody.  Developing now.  Will also have an "Executive Level" for corporate officers in addition to usual 3. 

300% increase in ARCHER training. 
41% increase in NESA attendence. 600+ there last year as students, staff.

VSAF at 3 bases. 
2% increase in senior membership.  34K+ now. 

Slight increase in Ops and Maint budget (26.6m)
1.2 million increase in aircraft procurement. (7.4m)
Other procurement (vehicles) (0.9m) --said this was inadequate for needs

80% of wings on consolidated maint by end of year. 
Had 50% in accidents this year.

Starting to refurb some older aircraft with some glass-cockpit features.  Not just avionics, but everything (engine, paint, interior, etc.).

New website is made by the same company that does goarmy.com .   cap.gov will continune into the future but after Jan will just auto redirect you to new site.

Nat HQ building getting refurbed so will be in temp hq for at least 18 months starting next month.  Not being paid for by CAP.  Shouldn't affect phone lines/email.  NOC won't actually move. 

Going to put out RFP very soon to basically re-do all of NHQs e-services type software. 

[RiverAux]

As part of her campaign speech to get permanent BG status, MG Courter mentioned that they are making progress on getting us a mission involving pipeline safety.  No real details.

She really put her mind to the speech -- it wasn't short....

"CAP should be known for uniform changes" -- she was joking in relationship to some changes regarding IACE uniforms.  Didnt really get what she was actually talking about. 

Didn't really need NEC approval for it as she was sort of grandmothered in under the old rules.

[RiverAux]

While they're in Exec session discussing BoG candidates...

In reference to streaming live video from CAP planes.  The initial unit is really more of a training/test situation than an operational item.  As I understood it, the plane will transmit the video to a ground unit that is essentially the same as what is used to control Predators and that the operator there won't be able to tell whether he is working with CAP or a Predator.  They didn't say whether CAP or AF or ANG would be operating the ground unit, but I suspect not CAP.  Regarding the video equipment, I think he said it would be mounted to the aircraft.  If it has Predator-like capabilities then we should be able to take it from quite high up, which should eliminate problems with topography, altitude limiting transmission distance. 

For the hoped for 20 additional units in the future they want them to have the capability to transmit from the plane to a satellite.  Didn't go into any detail about how that would work, but I would hope we'd get a better system than SDIS. 

[RiverAux]

Legal officer agenda item.
Part 1 - changed wording to "manage" rather than "supervise.  approved.
Part 2.  Legal Officer Authority -postponed till tomorrow
Part 3. Legal Officer Duties - approved.
Part 4.  Legal Service Award creation - Postponed.  The Awards committee didn't like it at all.  If the lawyers have their own award given by peers, shouldn't all the others?  This would be in addition to existing awards for same action, which we generally don't do. 
Part 5. "Legal Officer Corps" -- Approved. 

Adjourned for Day

[BuckeyeDEJ]

Thanks Ricochet....

Some interesting items....

Proposal to move the command patch on airplanes from the doors to the rudder to make it more visible and be similar to what AF does -- NHQ/LG doesn't like it though.

I'm not sure I understand why the door decal was ever put there to begin with. Seems the tail was better in the first place. Maybe a two-letter identifier should be used on the tail for either wing or region identification -- wings used to be identified on CAP plane tails. Then again, I wonder how the current corporate color scheme was designed -- is the red tail for increased visibility? The blue belly?

(Heck, if you read some of the things I've seen lately around the Internet, it won't be two years before the Obama 'O' logo is on our wings instead of the roundel....)

Revision to CAPR190-1 public affairs regarding the planning process (a monster waste of time in many cases)

Huh?

More power for CAP legal officers at Wing and higher levels.

Moving damage assessment authority to Region.

Allowing commanders down to group levels to put units in their command on logistics freezes.

Now THERE's a novel idea. It helps address rogue units, for one....

Might re-address the issue of Legislative officers who get quickie promotions to Lt. Col.

That's what I need -- a promotion to lieutenant colonel without the hassle of working for it. 

[RiverAux]

Looking at the proposal, the PA thing will put the specifc 4-step planning process that NHQ has been forcing down everyone's throat into the regulations.  I think the plan process is a joke since in many, many units there isn't a PA to speak of, but now they're required to write a plan every year as well as a crisis comm plan.  Like squadron commanders need more work to do -- since they will have to if they don't have a PA.  If they don't have a PA -- you know they're not going to get much PA work done so whats the purpose of the plan.....

[arajca]

It will interesting to see if National is going to offer any training outside of the PAO fest at the summer NB on how to develop the PA and Crisis Comm plans.


I'm not holding my breath.

[RiverAux]

Although I think the plans are essentially useless, NHQ has provided templates of both for PAOs to use as well as have posted many example plans from regions and wings.  So, if you've got a PAO that is active, they do have something to work with. 

[Capt Rivera]

For our newer members:
From: http://www.capchannel.com/
November 2008 NEC
Live Stream Schedule

Friday, November 7
1:00PM - 5:00PM CST

Saturday, November 8
8:30AM - 11:30AM CST
1:00PM - 5:00PM CST

CLICK the following to watch live stream!
mms://civilairpatrolnhq.wmlive.internapcdn.net/live_civilairpatrolnhq_vitalstream_com_NECNov2008

Sorry this didn't get posted sooner

[AlphaSigOU]

Thanks Ricochet....

Some interesting items....

Proposal to move the command patch on airplanes from the doors to the rudder to make it more visible and be similar to what AF does -- NHQ/LG doesn't like it though.

I'm not sure I understand why the door decal was ever put there to begin with. Seems the tail was better in the first place. Maybe a two-letter identifier should be used on the tail for either wing or region identification -- wings used to be identified on CAP plane tails. Then again, I wonder how the current corporate color scheme was designed -- is the red tail for increased visibility? The blue belly?

While at West Houston mision base for Ike, I saw one of the new Arkansas Wing 182s with a nice touch: a fin stripe with 'ARKANSAS' on it in the colors of their state flag. Nice touch... now if they'd do that with Texas Wing and others...

[jimmydeanno]

^All well and good until they transfer one of the planes to another wing...

[flyguync]

^^^^ I was thinking that wings couldnt have their names and morale stuff on planes... Then again it may just be a MER thing.

[Eeyore]

They really need to use a program other than Windows Media to stream, those of us with Mac systems can't watch.

[PHall]

^^^^ I was thinking that wings couldnt have their names and morale stuff on planes... Then again it may just be a MER thing.

No, it's a National "thing". As in CAPM 66-1.

[IceNine]

They really need to use a program other than Windows Media to stream, those of us with Mac systems can't watch.

that's cause Mac makes people want to kick the baby

[Capt Rivera]

They really need to use a program other than Windows Media to stream, those of us with Mac systems can't watch.

http://www.videolan.org/vlc/

VLC Media Player works on many different Operating Systems including Windows, linux and Mac

[MIKE]

Noobs... Flash

[flyguync]

Does anyone have the play by play for todays activities?

[badger bob]

from a feeble memory

6 withdrawn by proposer
7 approved
8 approved with some modifications
9 approved modifying the wing commanders having authority with the ability to delegate to group commanders
10 committee of legal and safety to report back to May NEC
11 delayed for finance committee report. Eventually withdrawn but approved as a finace committee recommendation with additional modifications
12 missed this action
13 seemed to be a lot of discitions acted on as finance committee recommendations
14 missed this action
15 missed this action

[pixelwonk]

They really need to use a program other than Windows Media to stream, those of us with Mac systems can't watch.

Like this
Like that

[JCJ]

^^^^ I was thinking that wings couldnt have their names and morale stuff on planes... Then again it may just be a MER thing.

No, it's a National "thing". As in CAPM 66-1.

The Arkansas Tail Flashes were placed by Brig. Gen. Chitwood (current CAP/CV) when he was the AR Wing CC.  They were legal and approved by the SWR/CC at that time.  Later, distinctive unit markings were disallowed because of the need to move aircraft beween wings.  The distinctive unit markings will need to be removed at the next re-paint.  But they do really look good against the red background.

[PHall]

^^^^ I was thinking that wings couldnt have their names and morale stuff on planes... Then again it may just be a MER thing.

No, it's a National "thing". As in CAPM 66-1.

The Arkansas Tail Flashes were placed by Brig. Gen. Chitwood (current CAP/CV) when he was the AR Wing CC.  They were legal and approved by the SWR/CC at that time.  Later, distinctive unit markings were disallowed because of the need to move aircraft beween wings.  The distinctive unit markings will need to be removed at the next re-paint.  But they do really look good against the red background.

And the only problem with that is the Region Commander wasn't authorised to approve them.
There is nothing in the reg authorising a Wing or Region Commander the authority to grant waivers.

[arajca]

^^^^ I was thinking that wings couldnt have their names and morale stuff on planes... Then again it may just be a MER thing.

No, it's a National "thing". As in CAPM 66-1.

The Arkansas Tail Flashes were placed by Brig. Gen. Chitwood (current CAP/CV) when he was the AR Wing CC.  They were legal and approved by the SWR/CC at that time.  Later, distinctive unit markings were disallowed because of the need to move aircraft beween wings.  The distinctive unit markings will need to be removed at the next re-paint.  But they do really look good against the red background.

And the only problem with that is the Region Commander wasn't authorised to approve them.
There is nothing in the reg authorising a Wing or Region Commander the authority to grant waivers.

Like that's stopped them before, right?

[JCJ]

^^^^ I was thinking that wings couldnt have their names and morale stuff on planes... Then again it may just be a MER thing.

No, it's a National "thing". As in CAPM 66-1.

The Arkansas Tail Flashes were placed by Brig. Gen. Chitwood (current CAP/CV) when he was the AR Wing CC.  They were legal and approved by the SWR/CC at that time.  Later, distinctive unit markings were disallowed because of the need to move aircraft beween wings.  The distinctive unit markings will need to be removed at the next re-paint.  But they do really look good against the red background.

And the only problem with that is the Region Commander wasn't authorised to approve them.
There is nothing in the reg authorising a Wing or Region Commander the authority to grant waivers.

At the time they were placed, the region commander was authorized to approve them.  That authority was removed by NEC vote in approximately 2004 or 2005 (I don't have time to research the exact date now) to facilitate aircraft transfer between wings.  I was there and we had some more to place on new aircraft, and we stopped because the NEC changed the policy (making them no longer authorized).  There are still a few left over at AR Wing HQ if anyone wants one for their car or boat.

You are correct that at at present, they are not allowed and the region commander may not authorize them on a waiver.  They must be removed at next re-paint or transfer to another wing.

[DrDave]

I can't seem to find any comments, or running commentary, on the NEC meeting held last weekend (7-8 November 2008).

CAPtalk is usually all over these events. 

Am I missing the thread?

Dr. Dave

[DrDave]

Yep, I missed it, found it now.

Thanks,
Dr. Dave

[sjtrupp]

They elected B Gen Anderson to be the new BOG member in December.  I didn't see that in the earlier posts.

Also, there was a lot of information in the reports that were given at the end of the meeting on Saturday.

[FW]

One thing that may stir things up is the new requirement for an "independent" unit finance committee.  Once appointed, members may not be removed unless there is concurrence at the next higher level of command.  This gives finance committee members a chance to express opinions without fear of retaliation or reprisal.  "Unit" is any unit below NHQ.

[davidsinn]

One thing that may stir things up is the new requirement for an "independent" unit finance committee.  Once appointed, members may not be removed unless there is concurrence at the next higher level of command.  This gives finance committee members a chance to express opinions without fear of retaliation or reprisal.  "Unit" is any unit below NHQ.

I actually like that idea.

[swamprat86]

One thing that may stir things up is the new requirement for an "independent" unit finance committee.  Once appointed, members may not be removed unless there is concurrence at the next higher level of command.  This gives finance committee members a chance to express opinions without fear of retaliation or reprisal.  "Unit" is any unit below NHQ.

Has this really been a problem?  I have never seen anyone in CAP afraid of giving their opinion because of possible retaliation or reprisal. 

But seriously, outside of independant auditing purpose, I don't see the point.  Isn't that why we have an IG dept, to handle actions of retaliation and reprisal?

[Gunner C]

One thing that may stir things up is the new requirement for an "independent" unit finance committee.  Once appointed, members may not be removed unless there is concurrence at the next higher level of command.  This gives finance committee members a chance to express opinions without fear of retaliation or reprisal.  "Unit" is any unit below NHQ.

Has this really been a problem?  I have never seen anyone in CAP afraid of giving their opinion because of possible retaliation or reprisal. 

The MER chief of staff and Dir of Finance were fired for just that.  That's how the former MER/CC got fired.

Gunner

[James Shaw]

Anyone have info on the final NEC agenda items. I worked and did not get a chance to watch any of it.

[DNall]

While at West Houston mision base for Ike, I saw one of the new Arkansas Wing 182s with a nice touch: a fin stripe with 'ARKANSAS' on it in the colors of their state flag. Nice touch... now if they'd do that with Texas Wing and others...

Those did look pretty awsome. The tail of our apaches has a Texas flag about 6 inches high running front to back at the very top. That looks pretty dang cool too. It'd be nice to add something like that to our planes. But alas, I do understand and agree with the logic on being able to move aircraft around as needed.