Common Access Cards (CAC)

[KyCAP]

OK..

So, I am reaching out for some of the larger brains that are connected out there on this one.

Our National Guard / EM guys are ULTRA supportive in the great Commonwealth of Ky.  One of the issues that we keep banging our heads over is our ability to share some of their resources for Emergency Management and just plain "unsecured internet".

The National Guard Bureau (Federal Level) has told the leadership that to get a CAC card for our members that we have to be
1) National Guard Members (or)
2) State Employees (or)
3) Government Contractors

Now, we've got some of #1, some of #2 and some of #3 in the CAP rank and file, but nothing that just a plain old #4 CAP member category who doesn't fall into 1-3 could have access to a CAC card.

Now, working on another thread tonight, I had this train of thought.

1) CAP, Inc IS a government subcontractor hence the terminology when the USAF awards a CONTRACT to non-profit corporational Civil Air Patrol, Inc. annually. 

That would mean that ANY Civil Air Patrol, Inc corporate employee can follow the same process any GSA contractor with a Statement of Work would have and apply to DSS for security clearance processing and/or apply for a CAC card.

This leaves a hole in the what's the Volunteer to the organization?   We're not employees because we don't receive consideration for our time (money).  The only corporate officers are the "Wing Commanders and Up" which defines that the Wing Admins and NHQ staff work for the "Corporate Officers"...

Anyone else out there see the conundrum I am trying to work through on this?   If CAP, Inc were to take $1 of our membership and cut us a check back to us, then we would technically be employees who volunteer a lot of time and cut through a whole load of "techincalities" like enabling the sponsorship of security clearances and other resources that ANY GOVERNMENT CONTRACTOR (like myself) has access to.

I am the GSA contract manager for my companies GSA schedule... So, I am trying to piece this all together for the rest of you all out there...

[PHall]

You can keep trying, but it ain't flying.
CAC's, which stands for COMMON Access Card, are also Department of Defense Identification Cards.

Ain't no way they're going to issue one to Joe Blow CAP Member.

But, they (The Guard System Administrator) can authorise non-CAC card holders to access the Guard's LAN.
They do it for short term contractors, MWR employees and such all the time.

But convincing them that our members are worth the risks could be quite the task. Good luck.

[hatentx]

The purpose is to allow DOD personnel into many things as well.  I know out civilians get a limited access to some thing where I work but it is worth a try I see your logic in it all to be honest.  I would wonder who the Aproving Authority would be on a decision like that.  Post commander, Commo Commnader, KYNG commander, or even higher?

[Eclipse]

If CAP, Inc were to take $1 of our membership and cut us a check back to us, then we would technically be employees who volunteer a lot of time and cut through a whole load of "technicalities" like enabling the sponsorship of security clearances and other resources that ANY GOVERNMENT CONTRACTOR (like myself) has access to.

No, we wouldn't.  In fact, were we to be classified as employees, CAP would be in violation of minimum wage laws all over the place.  And being an employee would give members rights we don't want or need them to have,  Think its tough to 2b someone today, try involving the labor board as well.

As most we would be contractors, and again a legit business relationship comes with responsibilities and caveats we don't need or want. The auxiliary / corporate situation, for all its foibles, is also a pretty good setup.

Common Access Cards are not necessary for the majority of users, in fact, most members probably never get near a military base on a regular enough basis to even utilize it.

[KyCAP]

Got it.. redacted to Common.. Just was thinking Computer since that is the "primary" reason we were looking for them.

We have a sponsor in the NG (J-6 Commander/ NG CIO for the rest of us cilvillians) in KY that was going to authorize "as needed" in conjunction with our Wing CC or designee.

Also, bases are not the destination here.   In KY there are two "bases" Campbell, Knox.  The focus here is more "reasonable" and local access.   KyNG Armories and the Ky EM offices.   

Eclipse your thoughts are what I was actually trolling around in the back of my mind... 

[FW]

You may be able to use a "token" card.  It's a CAC card without a picture.  The card is secured and an "authorized" CAP member is allowed to use it for computer access.  It is one of the ways "VSAF" CAP members can use the computers while assisting at assigned bases.

[KyCAP]

Now we're talking... All of these cards are basically two factor authentication devices... My company actually sells the RSA branded cards...  A Token card... That's new terminology.   It's all in how we ask the question.

[mikeylikey]

We have a sponsor in the NG (J-6 Commander/ NG CIO for the rest of us civilians) in KY that was going to authorize "as needed" in conjunction with our Wing CC or designee.

I would be very interested to know what and how he would register you in DEERS/RAPIDS system.  Last I checked, there was no "Civil Air Patrol" category.

As far as CAP members ever getting CAC, very doubtful.  I would place my money on getting metal rank insignia back on the AF-Style blues before AF allows CAP to have a Govt ID card. 

Funny, that the crack smoking kid working the burger king French fry fryer on an AF installation can get a CAC, but hard working, non paid patriots serving their communities State and Nation, can't get that benefit.   

Now, as per an Executive Order signed two years ago, the "next generation" CAC and FED ID card, may be an option, if NHQ gets its act together and presents it correctly.  Especially with future missions for DHS and other FED agencies looming on the horizon.  We could easily get a CAC FED ID CARD that says "Civilian", and "Civil Air Patrol" in the department field.

Funny thing is, I heard a rumor that the AF actually brought the issue of the CAC to CAPNHQ, who turned it down.  My sources are from the CAP-USAF side, so I trust them greatly. 

Anyway...... here is a link     http://www.cac.mil/index.html

[KyCAP]

Mike,

Agreed.   We have a huge hurdle we're trying to overcome to be better integrated with our willing National Guard and getting stymied without access to their LAN.   There are applications that KyEM uses for their EOC for mission reporting and uploading our images from SDIS for example.   

FW - What's this Token card process?  Are those issues to individuals or is there just some kind of "checkout" process where the VSAF members are working?

[hatentx]

Well I see what is being said but again CAP is every where and how many of them would even use it.  Then you would run into the issue of people forgetting the CAC log in pin.  I am AD Army and half of my troops couldn't tell you there CAC Pin.  I would say for certain units it would be useful such as the guy that started the post and trying to get in the NIPPER or SIPPER internet lines but other than that I would only see Sr Members needing them if not only the CO or XO of the Squadron

[FW]

FW - What's this Token card process?  Are those issues to individuals or is there just some kind of "checkout" process where the VSAF members are working?

It seems to be a checkout process.  VSAF members checkout card when starting and  give it back before leaving.  Card is secured at location and (I think) is issued to individual in charge.

[KyCAP]

That would be a step in the right direction for us.

One of the issues that we have is that some of the planning documents for our emergency response docs are stored in simply.. Microsoft Sharepoint.   So, when we need "Current" copies we have to bother someone over there to log in and EMAIL the power point and word documents to us... now... imagine trying to keep up to synch on this as the revisions are being checked in.

We don't want anything "secure" or secret squirrel.  Just the ability to get to the internet and several computer resources that "civilian / govt" employees would have very easy access to in the same department from any LAN /WAN terminal.   

I guess one piece of this I am leavining out.. Not sure how it is in other states.

In KY the command structure is

Gov -> TAG who is then over the KyNG and the Director of Ky EM as best I can tell.  So the KyEM actually sits on the KyNG LAN/WAN and not a system that is apparently connected to the rest of the "state employees".  For example, all of the KyEM staff have army.mil addresses while the rest of the state has ky.gov email addresses...

[Eclipse]

One of the issues that we have is that some of the planning documents for our emergency response docs are stored in simply.. Microsoft Sharepoint. 

You have CAP docs on a Sharepoint that CAP doesn't control?  Why?

[mikeylikey]

In the very near future, CAP will most likely be mandated to update their ID CARDS to a Federal specification, or at the very least adopt the NEXT GEN CAC for "Non-DoD/Other government employees".  It will be used to access data systems, and for entry into DHS mission sites and operations.  

HECK, to get on a base recently, they had two lines, one a CAC line, and the other a no CAC line.  The CAC line is automated, with the driver swiping his or her card in a reader and the gate opens.  The non-CAC line, was a sentry checking other ID cards (retirees, dependants, NAF civilians etc) and was backed up real far.  I would estimate it would take 10 to 15 minutes to get on the base if I didn't have a CAC.  I read that most installations will have this type of "improved" security system by 2010.  Should be awesome for those CAP members meeting on bases and posts.  

As far as the CAC......I do see a legitimate need for CAP members to have one.  I also see how it can be be abused by a certain group in CAP.  Can you imagine the first time a CAP member tries to pass himself or herself off as military, and shop at the Commissary, or heaven forbid, the PX/BX?  

 

[FW]

For "routine" computer access, may I suggest your wing use a commercial IP.  Keep all your docs where it is readily accessed and share with EOC or EMA computers via "flash drive"..

When you are in EOC or EMA, you should have access to system and, once "in", you should be able to access any internet site needed.

I'm beginning to wonder why you would need other govt. access to computers. Doesn't your Wing/HQ have them or internet access?  We spend big bucks for computer IP access every year.

[KyCAP]

These are KyNG docs on a KyNG server that CAP executes as part of their Operations Order.

[mikeylikey]

These are KyNG docs on a KyNG server that CAP executes as part of their Operations Order.

If that is the case, someone needs to explain to the KyNG that CAP has ZERO access to KyNG computer systems, and they are blocking State directives that CAP participate with them in the ES arena.  Someone needs to make an appointment to see the TAG, and it should be your Wing King. 

[KyCAP]

Been there done that.   I have met with the J-6 Commander who is a COL in NG with the blessing of the TAG to get this resolved and the NGB in DC said....

1) Military
2) Contractor
3) State Employee

In KY... CAP is even designated as a unit of the Dept of Military Affairs by State Law..  It's not an issue of them wanting to help us at the state level... We can't ask for a better relationship at this point.

Hence, my discussion thread here looking for alternative thinking on the definition of the role of the CAP member.   We're on the bleeding edge of integration with the NG and they are being VERY willing.  In fact two of our CAP buildings were considered to be torn down to make way for NG armories.  One bit the bullet and in return we're getting designated CAP office space in the new multi-million dollar structure.

If we could get this CAC card thing ironed out, I am sure that we could get NG WAN connectivity to our Wing HQ in no less than at least one PC that would allow us to be able to RAPIDLY disseminate our information during large scale events and training.

[afgeo4]

Been there done that.   I have met with the J-6 Commander who is a COL in NG with the blessing of the TAG to get this resolved and the NGB in DC said....

1) Military
2) Contractor
3) State Employee

In KY... CAP is even designated as a unit of the Dept of Military Affairs by State Law..  It's not an issue of them wanting to help us at the state level... We can't ask for a better relationship at this point.

Hence, my discussion thread here looking for alternative thinking on the definition of the role of the CAP member.   We're on the bleeding edge of integration with the NG and they are being VERY willing.  In fact two of our CAP buildings were considered to be torn down to make way for NG armories.  One bit the bullet and in return we're getting designated CAP office space in the new multi-million dollar structure.

If we could get this CAC card thing ironed out, I am sure that we could get NG WAN connectivity to our Wing HQ in no less than at least one PC that would allow us to be able to RAPIDLY disseminate our information during large scale events and training.

Can a state gov't declare a federal agency part of them? I think NOT. That Kentucky law claiming CAP as a unit in their DMA would be challenged by the federal court on its first mention and the Feds would win.

No federal agency can be made a unit of a state or local government. We can have agreements and we can work together, but CAP is a FEDERAL government agency and therefore cannot be a state agency (conflict of interest).

[KyCAP]

We're getting off of topic.