Dressing Down

[SAR-EMT1]

I had the rather unplesant experience of being chewed a new anal orifice this week by  coworkers who until this incident had been decent and respectful to me.

--

I was running late for a CAP meeting and decided to change into my uniform at work after shift change.

One is a 40 something year old, overweight guy who (that I know of) never served, he is however highly involved in IMERT and MABIS and is a Chief in a vollunteer FD The other is current Army Guard and has deployed.

Basically they saw the uniform, started hounding me, calling me everything from a wannabe to a F-ing discredit to everyone who has "earned the uniform"
Then after I recovered from my shock and asked what was up I got an earful.

One thing they kept going back to was that we call ourselves "officers" when we arent commissioned or will never make a sacrifice and deploy.
Also, how since we arent NIMS compliant we have no respect with any fire dept worth a crap... etc. Then they started into the cadet program calling us boy scouts with planes and that the money sunk into CAP ES by USAF to train cadet GTMs should be diverted into MABIS ....
That any FD or PD could DF an ELT.
That the USAF shows its unprofessionalism by sponsoring such F*ups as us who, after taking a f*ing mail order class "think" we have what it takes to do something helpful at a disaster or know what it takes to manage others.

it was a bunch of crap on one hand, I was shocked, distressed and angered to be attacked for being in CAP.

On the other hand what they said about the Ops side of the house, how CAP ES will never be used by any Incident Commander, how much better MABIS resources are better then any Squadron, etc... made me wonder how we are truely looked at by the Emergency Services Community nationwide.

Finally one went so far as to say that if I wanted to keep my job, I'd better keep the "costume" and the rest of my crap as far away from the station as possible.
..............

Their whole justification ranged from seeing a jr high aged color guard in a parade to attending a SAREX to being given a check ride in a 182

Thoughts?

[JoeTomasone]

Well, I'd be mouthing off how anyone who can spell "Red Cross" can perform first aid and anyone with two hands can operate a fire extinguisher to show them how stupid their comments are.    But that's just me.

Seriously, if they are that far removed from reality, not much will bring them back.   

[ColonelJack]

Sounds like you work with a bunch of jerks to me.

Jack

[sarflyer]

I really am apauled by their words.  Who do they think they are!?  And to threaten you with your job sounds like a labor complaint to me.

CAP does so much more than ES and the ES services we provide no one else can at our cost.  That's really to bad that they are so narrow minded.  Obviously they don't play well with others. 

As a 33 year member both cadet and senior I am truely offended!

[Gunner C]

You might want to mention that harrassment on the job isn't welcome.  The buzz word might shake them into reality.

GC

[isuhawkeye]

It sounds like these guys have some first hand experience with CAP.

To be that passionate about a subject means that they have been burned in the past. 

They certainly were not professional about their comments, but I know several folks who have the same opinion about CAP

[Pylon]

It sounds like these guys have some first hand experience with CAP.

To be that passionate about a subject means that they have been burned in the past. 

They certainly were not professional about their comments, but I know several folks who have the same opinion about CAP

While the original persons were likely over-the-line with the way they presented their opinions to you, one has to wonder what gave them a negative impression of CAP in the first place.  Does the organization exude such an image amongst ES/SAR/HLS/etc. professionals?

[O-Rex]

It sounds like these guys have some first hand experience with CAP.

To be that passionate about a subject means that they have been burned in the past. 

Agreed: they seemed just a tad-bit bit too well-informed about CAP: I'd be interested to know what their experience was: I sense possible sour grapes somewhere in the mix.

Exactly who and how did they attend a SAREX or get a checkride in a 182?

As for your doubts on the Operations side: How many volunteer organizations do what we do, on the scale that we do it?  We are not first-responders, and (hopefully) don't present ourselves as such.  Last time I checked, neither FD's or PD's chased ELTs.

People are entitled to their opinions: not everyone is going to be a fan.  Remember that once upon a time, people used to spit on servicemembers coming home from war.

Pardon my being blunt, but I guess what's really disturbing is that your colleagues seem to lack the respect for you as an individual to speak to you in that manner (particularly the 'if you want to keep your job' issue,) regardless of subject, or what you are wearing.   

It's one thing to dislike CAP, it's another to attack an individual: sounds like they did both.

Personal issues aside, this is a case-in-point to be mindful of how we conduct ourselves: once in a while I get some bomb dropped on my lap about a member dressing down an SP at the gate of an AFB for not saluting, demanding privileges they are not entitled to, or some other stupid situation: those things fuel the fire for those who think less-than-highly of CAP 

[isuhawkeye]

Something for everyone to understand

MABAS
Mutual Aid Box Alarm System

is an incredibly well organized mutual aid network which started in Illinois.  MABAS coordinates, and credentials emergency responders in a number of disciplines.  Including:

Fire Fighting
Tech Rescue
Haz-Mat

I can only imagine that CAP's independent attitude, and lack of NIMS compliancy has rubbed a few MABAS types the wrong way. 

I can only imagine how MABAS resources feel when CAP cant even meet the minimum requirements for mutual aid, and you often times hold yourself out as the "Federal" SAR asset. 

It also doesn't help that CAP would never pay the MABAS membership fees.

[O-Rex]

Something for everyone to understand

MABAS
Mutual Aid Box Alarm System

is an incredibly well organized mutual aid network which started in Illinois.  MABAS coordinates, and credentials emergency responders in a number of disciplines.  Including:

Fire Fighting
Tech Rescue
Haz-Mat

None of these things are within our capabilities anyway. . . . .

[SDF_Specialist]

Well that is truely offending if you ask me. CAP members work hard for their qualifications. We spend our time to train. We're the ones who hear about it from the USAF. If you ask me, I'd rather work with a few good CAP members one a SAR rather than a few FD members who are only worried about OT (I know not all FD or PD members are like this, but there are a few out there. I know'em!).

[O-Rex]

Well that is truely offending if you ask me. CAP members work hard for their qualifications. We spend our time to train. We're the ones who hear about it from the USAF. If you ask me, I'd rather work with a few good CAP members one a SAR rather than a few FD members who are only worried about OT (I know not all FD or PD members are like this, but there are a few out there. I know'em!).

Ryan,

Working hard for quals is a relative statement: some work harder than others, and I've seen folks with credentials on paper that just didn't have them in practice, but there's some of that in any organization.

I think the focus here is not to bash a profession or group because a couple of folks have an axe to grind, but to put our best foot forward to minimize the slings & arrows hurled by others.

People are entitled to their opnions, and free to express them.  Hopefully they do so without encroaching on the rights of others, or being offensive.  If the account that SAR-EMT1 is accurate, then while his collegues are questioning our organization, I question their own professionalism and conduct as gentlemen, and would take it all with a grain of salt.  Then again, I can afford to because I don't work with them.

I wish SAR-EMT1 the best of luck, as I think he has some issues to address with them on an interpersonal level.

[Sleepwalker]

I work with many ex-service members and have had one guy tape "Cap'n Crunch" over my nametape (I laughed about it as you probably might have reading this post). and another guy questioning my credials to be called "Captain" because (as a Squadron Commander) all I really am is a glorified "baby sitter".  Well, I just laugh these guys off, because the root of their problem is jealousy.  They have no idea what my job really is, or how much time and sweat I put into my CAP job (with no pay!).  Don't take ignorant boneheads too seriously.
         

[SDF_Specialist]

Well that is truly offending if you ask me. CAP members work hard for their qualifications. We spend our time to train. We're the ones who hear about it from the USAF. If you ask me, I'd rather work with a few good CAP members one a SAR rather than a few FD members who are only worried about OT (I know not all FD or PD members are like this, but there are a few out there. I know'em!).

Ryan,

Working hard for quals is a relative statement: some work harder than others, and I've seen folks with credentials on paper that just didn't have them in practice, but there's some of that in any organization.

I think the focus here is not to bash a profession or group because a couple of folks have an axe to grind, but to put our best foot forward to minimize the slings & arrows hurled by others.

People are entitled to their opinions, and free to express them.  Hopefully they do so without encroaching on the rights of others, or being offensive.  If the account that SAR-EMT1 is accurate, then while his colleagues are questioning our organization, I question their own professionalism and conduct as gentlemen, and would take it all with a grain of salt.  Then again, I can afford to because I don't work with them.

I wish SAR-EMT1 the best of luck, as I think he has some issues to address with them on an interpersonal level.

Rex, I completely agree and understand what you are talking about. I want you, and all to know that I am not bashing our proud members of all Fire and Police departments. I am simply referring to those who bash others, but fail to look at themselves, and really ask themselves what they've accomplished. The people that SAR-EMT1 mentioned are the kind of people that I was referring to in my initial post. I apologize if you, or anyone else took offense to my initial post, but I personally cannot stand folks who want to call us wannabes, and tell us we do not deserve to wear the uniform because we did not earn it. I've earned the right to wear it, I'm positive that you, and everyone else here on CAPTalk has earned it. I hope that SAR-EMT1 does address these issues because they were offensive. Being directed to him personally would make it worse. I've had my run-ins with people like those that SAR-EMT1 dealt with. I politely tell them thank you, and I am sorry that they don't see the good in CAP.

[Duke Dillio]

You should give us their home addresses so we can camp outside their houses en masse for a couple of weeks.  Generally, people like this aren't worth the effort though.  And no offense to the guys there.  I'm sure they used to be nice but I would have taken both of them out back and "altered their attitudes."  That's just me though.

Just blow it off.  They aren't worth your time or effort.  If you continue to have problems with them, send me the word and I'll fly out there and dress them down for you.

[flyerthom]

It sounds like these guys have some first hand experience with CAP.

To be that passionate about a subject means that they have been burned in the past. 

They certainly were not professional about their comments, but I know several folks who have the same opinion about CAP

While the original persons were likely over-the-line with the way they presented their opinions to you, one has to wonder what gave them a negative impression of CAP in the first place.  Does the organization exude such an image amongst ES/SAR/HLS/etc. professionals?

When I was doing EMS in PA I had a few really poor interactions with a local CAP squadron. They were ah less than impressive on a few operations and, in my personal experience, downright dangerous on one.  They had a strong connection to two local volunteer SAR group that recruited people who were non hackers at the EMS and FD volunteer squads. One SAR (not CAP) leader had a conviction for recreational pharmaceutical  distribution. They had a lot of bling on their jump suits though. They were very much the root of the local ES culture  that viewed: the more patches and pins = the bigger the idiot.

Fortunately I worked with sarmed1 and learned more about CAP. If I went by the impressions I got from that first group of people I'd probably not be in CAP. 

Getting back to the bling comment, I've noticed in EMS and FD's here in NV and AZ there seems to be a very similar attitude i.e  Bling is inversely proportionate to competence.   I have to wonder if that is the one of the roots of the issue.

One is a 40 something year old, overweight guy who (that I know of) never served, he is however highly involved in IMERT and MABIS and is a Chief in a vollunteer FD

(Ever try and type something with the cat on the keyboard?) I've worked with than one of these individuals who were also less than impressive. The best counter is to try and recruit him.

[Gunner C]

Just blow it off.  They aren't worth your time or effort.  If you continue to have problems with them, send me the word and I'll fly out there and dress them down for you.

Heck, I'll go with you.  Being a retired Green Beret, I can swear in three languages (four if I practice).  I can still swell up on someone  - these guys are just punks.  Unfortunately, we have to live with them.

GC

[O-Rex]

Well that is truly offending if you ask me. CAP members work hard for their qualifications. We spend our time to train. We're the ones who hear about it from the USAF. If you ask me, I'd rather work with a few good CAP members one a SAR rather than a few FD members who are only worried about OT (I know not all FD or PD members are like this, but there are a few out there. I know'em!).

Ryan,

Working hard for quals is a relative statement: some work harder than others, and I've seen folks with credentials on paper that just didn't have them in practice, but there's some of that in any organization.

I think the focus here is not to bash a profession or group because a couple of folks have an axe to grind, but to put our best foot forward to minimize the slings & arrows hurled by others.

People are entitled to their opinions, and free to express them.  Hopefully they do so without encroaching on the rights of others, or being offensive.  If the account that SAR-EMT1 is accurate, then while his colleagues are questioning our organization, I question their own professionalism and conduct as gentlemen, and would take it all with a grain of salt.  Then again, I can afford to because I don't work with them.

I wish SAR-EMT1 the best of luck, as I think he has some issues to address with them on an interpersonal level.

Rex, I completely agree and understand what you are talking about. I want you, and all to know that I am not bashing our proud members of all Fire and Police departments. I am simply referring to those who bash others, but fail to look at themselves, and really ask themselves what they've accomplished. The people that SAR-EMT1 mentioned are the kind of people that I was referring to in my initial post. I apologize if you, or anyone else took offense to my initial post, but I personally cannot stand folks who want to call us wannabes, and tell us we do not deserve to wear the uniform because we did not earn it. I've earned the right to wear it, I'm positive that you, and everyone else here on CAPTalk has earned it. I hope that SAR-EMT1 does address these issues because they were offensive. Being directed to him personally would make it worse. I've had my run-ins with people like those that SAR-EMT1 dealt with. I politely tell them thank you, and I am sorry that they don't see the good in CAP.

I take no offense: I'm neither a firefighter nor a police officer.

Like SARGRUNT, my first reaction to the scenario was shall we say....'visceral.'

But we're better than that, so like you said, the standard answer is "Gee, I'm sorry you feel that way."  As for what I'm actually thinking, I won't describe, lest the moderators start jingling their keys. 

For every detractor, I've met a dozen folks who are enthusiastic and supportive about what we do.

[Duke Dillio]

Just blow it off.  They aren't worth your time or effort.  If you continue to have problems with them, send me the word and I'll fly out there and dress them down for you.

Heck, I'll go with you.  Being a retired Green Beret, I can swear in three languages (four if I practice).  I can still swell up on someone  - these guys are just punks.  Unfortunately, we have to live with them.

GC

Maybe I can talk the guys on AP.org into letting us borrow their short bus.  The midgets can come too.

[O-Rex]

recreational pharmaceutical  distribution

That made my day!