age and rank

isuhawkeye · November 27, 2007, 10:38:01 PM

I have watched a few other threads unfold, and in these threads Officer's rank has been a driving factor. I find this interesting because as a CAP Lt Col in Iowa I was asked to apply for the upcoming wing commander position. These requests came form staff, unit commanders, and general members. Normally this wouldn't be worth posting in the forum, but I am 29 years old. I have been in CAP for 10 years, I was not a cadet, and I have served as a unit commander.

With the rare occasion of young wing commanders on the horizon, What are your thoughts.

Falshrmjgr · November 27, 2007, 11:33:32 PM

I think it's both a pro and a con.

Pro: Young, energetic, innovative, motivated.

Con: Makes my teeth hurt to think of a 29 YO Full Bird. (And plenty others I am sure.)

Frankly I think the pros outweigh the cons. I know someone pretty quick will throw out the typical ages of Military 0-6's. And after some thought, I think that's a problem with the Military right now having a peacetime mentality about officer promotions during wartime.

I read somewhere recently that the West Point Class of '39 produced almost 60 Regimental Commanders by 1945.

Drive on, and let the old fogies deal.

SDF_Specialist · November 27, 2007, 11:39:38 PM

Personally, I don't care what age my Wing Commander, Region Commander or National Commander is. As long as that member can make the decision based on what's best for the organization and its members, the person will have my full support. Age in CAP kinda resembles age in marriage; it doesn't matter who is old, just how much you both love each other. Hawk, I say go for it. If you meet the qualifications, and have that many people behind you, you obviously have what it takes to lead a Wing.

Stonewall · November 27, 2007, 11:44:21 PM

I was and am still a young Lt Col. I was a former cadet but it really didn't matter as far as my promotion through the senior member ranks because I only had the Mitchell and the personnel officer at my squadron lost paperwork so the 6 months it would have taken me to earn 2d Lt was irrelevant when it came to "advanced promotion" due to the Mitchell...

Perhaps your maturity level is far beyond mine and I'm certain Iowa Wing is a tad smaller in size and numbers compared to Florida. But I personally wouldn't take on the Wing King job until I was about 40, with 10 more years under your belt of CAP experience. You've already commanded a squadron, but what about a group? What about Chief of Staff position, Vice Wing King or Wing Director of CP, PD, or OPs?

While I don't think holding those positions I listed above should make anyone a shoe-in for the big job at wing, I could see the argument of holding one of those positions a prerequisite for selection. Not 100% convinced, but definitely see how it could be used as a tool.

Personally, on a friendly fellow-younger-Lt Col level, I could forsee you getting burned out as a 30-something Wing King. Also, just as we experience sometimes simply being younger colonels, it can be somewhat challenging to convince our elders that we are in fact competent, and I hate wasting time trying to persuade them when that time could otherwise be used on more important matters.

With all that, if I were in your wing, I'd be happy to serve under you. You little whipper-snapper.

RiverAux · November 28, 2007, 12:36:28 AM

As a general rule, you either need to be fairly well off or retired or both to do the Wing Commander's job the right way. Not many youngsters meet those criteria. Its not so much a money issue I guess, but a time issue and up until their 40s a lot of people are too busy with jobs and raising kids to take it on.

As far as rank, I don't think age is an issue.

ZigZag911 · November 28, 2007, 01:19:54 AM

As a rule, I think wing CCs ought to be mid 40s, at minimum.....I know there have been exceptions, some of whom did quite well....but I think one needs the 'life experience' as well as CAP experience to do the job properly.

jimmydeanno · November 28, 2007, 01:24:12 AM

hmmm...so the President of the United States should be at least 35, but to run a CAP wing we should have rule they should be at least 40?!?!

ZigZag911 · November 28, 2007, 01:25:58 AM

Quote from: jimmydeanno on November 28, 2007, 01:24:12 AM
hmmm...so the President of the United States should be at least 35, but to run a CAP wing we should have rule they should be at least 40?!?!

When that was written into the Constitution, 35 was middle-aged!

And, even so, we've not had a President younger than 42 or 43....so if it's good enough for The Leader of The Free World, it's good enough for CAP!

jimmydeanno · November 28, 2007, 01:34:31 AM

Yes, you're right, JFK was the youngest president at the ripe old age of 43. I do believe that the POTUS has a little bit more responsibility than a CAP Wing CC, Region CC or National CC. Age shouldn't be a factor, merely abilities.

riffraff · November 28, 2007, 01:59:22 AM

My 2-cents: If you're qualified for the job, more power to you. A 29-year old CAP colonel is no different than a 29 year old fire chief. If you're qualified, you're qualified.

As already noted, CAP ranks are only relevant within CAP and really have no true meaning outside the organization. So comparing a 29 year old Wing CC is really just a comparison of that person to other CAP Wing CCs, not a comparison of CAP vs USAF/et al.

Stonewall · November 28, 2007, 02:14:04 AM

Size of the wing will also play a major role. DC wing had like 400 members. FL wing has thousands, maybe as many as 5,000, I don't know.

The fire chief thing is the same thing. There was a 32 year old fire chief in Palm Valley, FL that averaged 2 1/2 calls a day. A small VFD with 2 trucks and a handful of volunteers. Compare that to a chief at a full-time FD in a major city that averages 15 calls a day.

isuhawkeye · November 28, 2007, 02:31:40 AM

Just for a reference I have not applied for the position.

I am interested in the discussion

riffraff · November 28, 2007, 02:45:32 AM

I think RiverAux has nailed the real consideration. Will your life afford you the time necessary to do the job properly?

SStradley · November 28, 2007, 03:06:23 AM

Quote from: jimmydeanno on November 28, 2007, 01:24:12 AM
hmmm...so the President of the United States should be at least 35, but to run a CAP wing we should have rule they should be at least 40?!?!

Well, they pay the President of the United States. I think the biggest issue will be the time involved. Does someone in their 20s or 30s (or even 40s) have the spair time to do the Wing King job?

Isuhawkeye, if you have the time then go for the job.

Dustoff · November 28, 2007, 03:21:15 AM

Quote from: jimmydeanno on November 28, 2007, 01:24:12 AM
hmmm...so the President of the United States should be at least 35, but to run a CAP wing we should have rule they should be at least 40?!?!

And I hear that it's at a higher pay grade than Wing Commander!

And John, you don't have any children.....yet!

(Unless there's something you want to share with us, Mr Newlywed)

They will SIGNIFICANTLY impact your free time! (but it's worth it - I keep telling myself that....)

Jim

Short Field · November 28, 2007, 03:26:31 AM

Quote from: SStradley on November 28, 2007, 03:06:23 AM
Isuhawkeye, if you have the time then go for the job.

Ditto. Throwing your hat in the ring should be a matter of you deciding if you have the time to commit to the job. Selection should depend on picking the best qualified.

SarDragon · November 28, 2007, 03:31:39 AM

Quote from: jimmydeanno on November 28, 2007, 01:34:31 AM
Yes, you're right, JFK was the youngest president at the ripe old age of 43. I do believe that the POTUS has a little bit more responsibility than a CAP Wing CC, Region CC or National CC. Age shouldn't be a factor, merely abilities.

JFK was the youngest elected President. Teddy Roosevelt was our youngest President, at 42, when he succeeded McKinley.

isuhawkeye · November 28, 2007, 03:40:07 AM

Thanks for the votes of confidence, but I have already made my decision. I did not intend this thread to be about me. I intended it to be a talk about the age of our officers.

Can young officers make affective wing commanders

Should our Officer track take longer to complete?

Is it so easy to promote, or should there be delays in place?

JCW0312 · November 28, 2007, 03:43:59 AM

Quote from: Stonewall on November 28, 2007, 02:14:04 AM
Size of the wing will also play a major role. DC wing had like 400 members. FL wing has thousands, maybe as many as 5,000, I don't know.

The fire chief thing is the same thing. There was a 32 year old fire chief in Palm Valley, FL that averaged 2 1/2 calls a day. A small VFD with 2 trucks and a handful of volunteers. Compare that to a chief at a full-time FD in a major city that averages 15 calls a day.

15 calls per day in a major city? I hope you mean per truck.

Sorry. Back to your regularly scheduled topic...

RiverAux · November 28, 2007, 03:47:45 AM

I haven't done an age breakdown by rank for my Wing, but based on personal observation only, I'm pretty sure we haven't had a Lt. Col. in their twenties in a very long time. We've got several Majors in that age range.

From what I've seen, most CAP members in their twenties are former cadets and a 25-year old Captain has probably been in CAP almost 12 years and has probably become a very experienced ground ops guy, is very familiar with the cadet program, and probably has some, but not usually a lot of air ops experience. I'd probably rather have that guy than some new person that has been in for 5 years or less running the wing even if they're much older and generally experienced.