NEC Meeting - No audio?

[TankerT]

Anyone else having this problem?

[TankerT]

It seems that the problem has been resolved.  *shrug*

[jimmydeanno]

I wish they'd just make an "audio only" stream.  Being at work for some reason WMP likes to take over one of my monitors (it uses one as a tv and puts the player in the other monitor showing the same stream...what a PITA.)

[Eclipse]

No more Form 19!

[jimmydeanno]

I think the path these discussions go down is interesting.

"I think we should get rid of the CAPF 19."

"Let's only get rid of it for seniors."

"Make the cadets get the Pic ID and the CAPF 19"

"Let's produce the CAPF 19 locally."

"The Pic ID should only be valid with a CAPF 19 for cadets."

"Let's get rid of the CAPF 19."

[0]

Ok this isn't audio related but is it me or are they all in blues or the grey and white?  I see no more TPU.

[jimmydeanno]

Brig Gen Courter is wearing the TPU and so are a bunch of the other Cols...blues seem to be the endagered uniform in this crowd...

[0]

Then I must have the bad timing.  Every time I pop the window up all I see are Blue for the most  part I've seen one TPU. 

[Eclipse]

Blue is definitely in the minority, but it just happens that the center of the camera's arc is (or was) on two members in blues.

[MIKE]

Did you hear that about making everybody a colonel... and handing these promotions out like lollipops?

[jimmydeanno]

I like lollipops    Can I have one?

[0]

I thought they gave out 2LT's like lolipops.  Now I feel jipped. 

[DrJbdm]

they want to change the name of Moral Leadership to Charector Development....looks like it might pass.  Is this really needed? or is a way to get rid of the term "moral"?? the Chaplains are against it...go Chaplains!!

[DrJbdm]

it passed...that sucks.   Now it's on to making a Cadet a non voting member of the NB

[MIKE]

They also passed crediting former cadets with past accomplishments for senior membership without amendment.  IMO it could have used a few.

[0]

did they just loose audio again?

[Eeyore]

It appears so.

[DrJbdm]

looks like they just sent the Cadet on the NB issue to the constitution an bylaws committee. and with that, we lost the audio feed!!

[0]

we need better IT people there.  someone who can keep the audio fee up.

[Eclipse]

They also passed crediting former cadets with passed accomplishments for senior membership without amendment.  IMO it could have used a few.

What does this mean, exactly? 

Events cadets participate in already count (SLS, conferences, etc.), so what does this change or add?

[DrJbdm]

What a surprise it's down yet again!!

[MIKE]

They also passed crediting former cadets with passed accomplishments for senior membership without amendment.  IMO it could have used a few.

What does this mean, exactly? 

Events cadets participate in already count (SLS, conferences, etc.), so what does this change or add?

Go read the agenda item.

[pixelwonk]

Awesome Jabba the Hutt voice right now.

[0]

Oh I just loved the slow drunken audio feed.

Sir you need to put down the Gin and tonic.

[DrJbdm]

If they need more GA-8 pilots then perhaps they should drop the Commercial and Instrument rating requirement. just make it at the same requirements as needed to fly ROTC cadets. Private Pilot with 300hrs PIC.

[jeders]

Now it's down completely

[0]

Maybe the black vans pulled up and pulled the feed.

[Eclipse]

Oh I just loved the slow drunken audio feed.

Sir you need to put down the Gin and tonic.

That happens as the compression on the audio comes back up to speed.

It looks like they are in a hotel conference room - anyone who has ever used internet in a shared hotel environment knows how flaky it can be, especially on the upchannel.

If they are using a wireless connection that's worse...

[DrJbdm]

you would think that after doing this so many times that they would have been able to work out some of these problems with the video/audio feeds. 

[pixelwonk]

in their house, yes.
In someone else's [ie: various hotel/conference centers]  ...no. 

[0]

I just tried to reboot from capchannel and according to their website they're on break.   They maybe trying to fix the in and out audio signal while they're out.

[JC004]

They also passed crediting former cadets with passed accomplishments for senior membership without amendment.  IMO it could have used a few.

What does this mean, exactly? 

Events cadets participate in already count (SLS, conferences, etc.), so what does this change or add?

SLS doesn't count.

[link]

Ok, did anyone else's feed just pop on then back off?

[jeders]

Feed's back up, they're still on break

[link]

ok since I'm just checking in how many breaks have they taken so far?

[jeders]

And the feed's down again. I know it's at a hotel, but seriously? Come on.

[CAP Producer]

They may be at lunch.

[jeders]

They're back at 1229 CDT

[SJFedor]

If they need more GA-8 pilots then perhaps they should drop the Commercial and Instrument rating requirement. just make it at the same requirements as needed to fly ROTC cadets. Private Pilot with 300hrs PIC.

Go re-read 60-1, they dropped the Commercial requirement a long time ago. But, instrument rating is absolutely needed for the mobility of the system. What good is having the toy when you can only move it during pretty weather? To make sure it gets where it needs to be on time, they may have to fly from A to B, where it's clear at both A and B, but in between it's crap weather. It's a good requirement.

[SJFedor]

I love how Col Hodgkins is rockin the flight suit.

[link]

There has to be one stand out.

and I tuned back in late.  What was the exact motion about Enlisted Grades? 

[SJFedor]

Not sure, I missed it too.

Just watched Gen Courter start yelling "OPSEC, OPSEC!" when they started to talk about some activities that pilots in SER were participating in FL.

[jeders]

and I tuned back in late.  What was the exact motion about Enlisted Grades? 

They approved the working group to look into it with the added guidance of determining what a CAP NCO corps would be used for and what value non-prior military NCOs would be.

[NEBoom]

I was interested to see what they came up with for the Marketing Plan/PAO items they were discussing (I forget what they exactly called it).  they had a handout for the board that Gen Courter said was available on line.  I've been searching a bit here while I listen to new business, but no luck.  Anybody found it?

[CAP Producer]

I was interested to see what they came up with for the Marketing Plan/PAO items they were discussing (I forget what they exactly called it).  they had a handout for the board that Gen Courter said was available on line.  I've been searching a bit here while I listen to new business, but no luck.  Anybody found it?

http://www.cap.gov/visitors/members/public_affairs/cap_national_marketing_plan/plan_downloads/

[NEBoom]

I was interested to see what they came up with for the Marketing Plan/PAO items they were discussing (I forget what they exactly called it).  they had a handout for the board that Gen Courter said was available on line.  I've been searching a bit here while I listen to new business, but no luck.  Anybody found it?

http://www.cap.gov/visitors/members/public_affairs/cap_national_marketing_plan/plan_downloads/

Great.  Thanks much!!

[BillB]

It lookjs like on the audio they are using wireless mikes and someone forgot to turn the switch on the mike to ON. Or whoever is running audio isn't paying attention. The only audio is from a mike somewhere in the room, away from the speaker.

[RplnXbrnt]

They also passed crediting former cadets with past accomplishments for senior membership without amendment.  IMO it could have used a few.

So, I'm curious -- does the fact that they passed this agenda item make the proposed change occur immediately?

For example, I went to COS (and RCLS, for that matter) as a cadet, but have not yet completed AFIADL-13. If this change takes effect immediately (well, at the end of the meeting, anyway) make it such that I don't have to finish AFIADL-13? I already have SLS and the CP technician rating, so that's the only thing otherwise standing in my way from Level II completion.

Thanks!

[Eclipse]

Did it ever come back up?

Anyone got a summary?  I'm curious to know how the NCO discussion went.

(Disregard, I see from the above)

[BillB]

A lot of these items were moved to Saturday. However there will be no streaming video of the Saturday NEC meeting.

[John Bryan]

Charector Development Officer.....

Does this mean all the MLO Badges will have to be replaced with ones that say CDO? This is another uniform change that will cost the MLO's....I mean CDO's. Does this mean the 52-16 will change from ML to CD?

By the way....when speaking and saying CDO how do we know if we are talking about the Charector Development Officer or the Counter Drug Officer?

[Chappie]

Charector Development Officer.....

Does this mean all the MLO Badges will have to be replaced with ones that say CDO? This is another uniform change that will cost the MLO's....I mean CDO's. Does this mean the 52-16 will change from ML to CD?

By the way....when speaking and saying CDO how do we know if we are talking about the Charector Development Officer or the Counter Drug Officer?

Who knows how this name change will affect the job title or specialty badge?  As for the regs...that is just paperwork.   I was opposed to this change the first time it was presented....so I guess the second time around was a charm.  Again I am convinced that there are times when the NEC just doesn't see the big picture...not the first time nor will it be the last 

[Tim Medeiros]

They were actually talking about coming up with a different acronym for the position due to confusion with counter drug, they talked about that for a while.

[RiverAux]

I wonder why they're not doing the webcast on Saturday as well... I watched about an hour of it and they kicked a whole lot of discussion until the next day. 

[John Bryan]

So did anyone hear if Chaplain (Col) Sharp (National Chief of Chaplains) spoke on the MLO issue? If so what were his feelings?

[MIKE]

IIRC they were going to change it to Character Development during the 52-16 rewrites, but it was amended by the NB or something.

[John Bryan]

IIRC....the NB had board members against the change and a lot of other things. The CP staff and NCAC went back made changes and then reported back with the current 52-16.

I would be interested in the CP and HC folks feelings?

[afgeo4]

Character development? These cadets already have character. They do more than 99% of teenagers do. They put on uniforms, read textbooks, train, come to meetings, train more, perform SAR and DR and then train a bit more again and that's without any kind of pay. Character? I think that Character Development title is a slap in the face of cadets.

(I am not and never was a cadet)

[RiverAux]

Then by implication you're saying that they lack morals...

[mikeylikey]

Why can't we just use Moral Leadership?  I must have missed that. 

[Eclipse]

Character development? These cadets already have character. They do more than 99% of teenagers do. They put on uniforms, read textbooks, train, come to meetings, train more, perform SAR and DR and then train a bit more again and that's without any kind of pay. Character? I think that Character Development title is a slap in the face of cadets.

(I am not and never was a cadet)

I wouldn't go that far, though I have no idea why anyone thought this was important.

Its seems like just a lot of semantic background noise.

I suppose it has something to do with the term "morality".  While I can't find any definitive dictionary verbiage that supports this, the term morality has taken on a "churchy" feel in the last decade or so, and
the implication is that a Chaplain is the most qualified, preferred, person to moderate ML sessions, which can lead to further "churchifying" the discussions.

Changing it to CD is likely someone's idea that this will push CAP further into a non-secular environment.

I would really like to hear from someone who introduced the idea.

[Mustang]

As a former cadet and cadet squadron commander, I applaud the title change from ML to Character Development.  In the nearly 30 years I've been associated with the Cadet Program, Moral Leadership has never been about morals at all, but about developing the capacity to make good decisions that are right for one's followers.

Back when he was the Commandant of Cadets at the USAF Academy, Air University Commander Lt Gen Sam Lorenz appeared in the CAP DDR video, Choices Not Chances; something he said in that video has stuck with me ever since, and I quote the general every time I speak about Moral Leadership. He said, simply: "Character is build one decision at a time." So simple, but so true.  In this light, it's obvious we can't teach character to our cadets, but we CAN help teach them to make good decisions--good choices--for themselves and their troops.  We can do this by teaching them how to be discerning consumers of information, to be watchful for bias in the advice of others, and to be mindful of the needs of the minority when allowing the majority to make choices. 

Strong character is an essential facet of leadership, morality is a moving target that means entirely different things depending upon one's religious views (or absence thereof).  Unfortunately, many of our more devout members have taken the Moral Leadership title too literally and used it as a bullypulpit from which to preach their own morals to cadets, and I don't believe CAP has any business teaching morals to cadets--that's solely a parental responsibility, IMHO.

[flyguy06]

I agree with you to a point Mustang. CAP has no business teaching religion. But when they say morals, Ithink they mean things like do not steal, do not lie, do not do durgs.

But I think that goes back to what you are saying about making right choices. So I think youare saying the same thing they are just using different wording.

[John Bryan]

So the words change but not the program....so what changes.....let me make sure I understand.....

"CD" is more "PC" then "ML".....Pat I'd like to buy a vowel :angel:

[A.Member]

In the nearly 30 years I've been associated with the Cadet Program, Moral Leadership has never been about morals at all, but about developing the capacity to make good decisions that are right for one's followers. 

Really?!

Definition:
Moral

mor·al   [mawr-uhl, mor-]
–adjective
1. of, pertaining to, or concerned with the principles or rules of right conduct or the distinction between right and wrong; ethical: moral attitudes. 
2. expressing or conveying truths or counsel as to right conduct, as a speaker or a literary work; moralizing: a moral novel. 
3. founded on the fundamental principles of right conduct rather than on legalities, enactment, or custom: moral obligations. 
4. capable of conforming to the rules of right conduct: a moral being. 
5. conforming to the rules of right conduct (opposed to immoral): a moral man. 
6. virtuous in sexual matters; chaste. 
7. of, pertaining to, or acting on the mind, feelings, will, or character: moral support. 
8. resting upon convincing grounds of probability; virtual: a moral certainty. 
–noun
9. the moral teaching or practical lesson contained in a fable, tale, experience, etc. 
10. the embodiment or type of something. 
11. morals, principles or habits with respect to right or wrong conduct. 

So, what's different?  We are teaching Moral Leadership as it pertains to our organization.

Like many things that seem to happen in this organization, this name change was a solution is search of a problem.  I see no real need for the change.  The term "Moral Leadership" is appropriate and describes the objective to a "T".  

[A.Member]

So the words change but not the program....so what changes.....let me make sure I understand.....

"CD" is more "PC" then "ML".....Pat I'd like to buy a vowel :angel:

Ding, ding, ding.   Vanna, tell him what he's won...

[Eclipse]

So the words change but not the program....so what changes.....let me make sure I understand.....

"CD" is more "PC" then "ML".....Pat I'd like to buy a vowel :angel:

Ding, ding, ding.   Vanna, tell him what he's won...

An all-expense paid trip to Dilutedville, USA?

[John Bryan]

Dilutedville, USA........thats in central Alabama right?

[Chaplaindon]

As a chaplain, having read the preceding comments concerning "moral/s" and/or moral leadership vs. character development, I believe some clarification is in order.

The word "moral" (and its plural morals) has its root in the Latin word mores which actually means --in its original useage-- the same as the Greek word ethos from which we derive the English word "ethics."

Morals = ethics.

It was the philosopher Aristotle who --in his book Nicomachean Ethics --described the functional meaning of ethics/morals (in their original form) almost 2500 years ago. Aristotle was far from a Christian.

He saw ethics as a process of decision-making --using the reasoning capacities that separate humankind from plants and animals. An acorn, he posited, can only --at best-- become an oak tree (at worst, I suppose, brunch for a squirrel). A kitten can, at best, only become a cat.

Free people (he differentiated the free from the enslaved majority in his day) can use their mental/reasoning capacities to make choices that CAN lead to a "flourishing" (eudymonia) life or a unhappy one. Slaves, mind you, had no choice options at all.

So morals (as forseen by the person who coined the idea) was a process of decision-making that, if accomplished correctly, can lead to a wonderful ideal life ... or if done incorrectly, the antithesis.

This has direct bearing on the CAP ML/CD program. Although it is normatively led by a chaplain or, in the absence of a chaplain (and CAP is VERY short of chaplains)  by a qualified MLO, the intent is for it NOT to be churchy or "churchified."

It is to encourage cadets to make decisions and investigate the outcome in a safe setting. Kind of a "flight simulator" for societal decision-making. The hope is that they will subsequently make equally GOOD decisions outside of the CAP meeting when it comes to honesty, dating, drugs, driving and whatnot.

That's when it really counts.

MLs also serve, hopefully, to help cadets (and I think it important also for SMs) to find a "moral/ethical compass" to help guide their decision-making forthwith. In theory one could simply flip a coin to decide all of life's questions (I think that will very rarely, if ever, lead to eudymonia).

On the other hand, one could find a guiding fixture in their life (maybe their religious faith, or patriotism, or whatnot) that will be a constant reference to help them make decision on a more rational basis. Atheists can make sound moral decisions and religious people can make bad ones.

We need to put religion aside in this discussion about MLs. Chaplain-led or not, MLs are SECULAR activities.

BUT, if they're secular, why do we use chaplains (when/where) for ML/CD's?

Unlike the majority of SM officers, however, most seminary-trained chaplains possess graduate academic training in ethics, so they are often quite well suited to lead such secular discussions.

But there is a caveat ...

Chaplains who preach (whatever theological message Christian, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, etc.) or who seek to direct ML sessions toward a specific religious doctrine or ideal, are not leading ML, they're doing devotionals (or teaching Sunday School).

There's an appropriate time and place for religious (NON-secular) worship services and devotionals within CAP activities. But that is not the role of MLs.

That having been said, religion CAN be a useful (even excellent/extraordinary) "moral compass," sadly, it too can be corrupted.  Look at the ostensibly Christian-on-Christian violence in Northern Ireland that punctuated, in blood and terror, much of the 20th Century.

Again a "churchified" ML/CD is not a ML/CD.

[Eclipse]

Dilutedville, USA........thats in central Alabama right?

Actually, its closer to Southern California.   

[Short Field]

Chaplain Don - excellent post.   :angel: