Squadron Commander Term Limits

Started by blinky, January 15, 2013, 09:55:35 PM

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

blinky

Obviously I'm late to the discussion - but I'm a parent of two CAP cadets and the new rule regarding squadron commander term limits concerns me very much.  Some people want you to "shut up" and not voice your opinion.  Some people want you to use the chain of command.  But let's face it - the chain of command isn't going to work on this topic and more parents need a voice.  So I saw this out there and figured I would share.  It is self explanatory and my understanding is that National is aware of this petition going around.  This decision was forced on CAP by the National Commander and the de-powered board of governors does not concur.  Your opinion can make a difference - these people do not operate in a vacuum.    The bottom line is the decision to move squadron commanders out after 4 years is better done at the wing and group level - not from remote people in high places making arbitrary rules.

http://tinyurl.com/capregpetition


Eclipse

Quote from: blinky on January 15, 2013, 09:55:35 PMthe new rule regarding squadron commander term limits concerns me very much.  Some people want you to "shut up" and not voice your opinion. 

Why?


"That Others May Zoom"

Ned

Quote from: blinky on January 15, 2013, 09:55:35 PM
This decision was forced on CAP by the National Commander and the de-powered board of governors does not concurhttp://tinyurl.com/capregpetition

I'm not sure I understand this part.  Could you explain?

Eclipse

#3
Quote from: blinky on January 15, 2013, 09:55:35 PMthe new rule regarding squadron commander term limits concerns me very much.  Some people want you to "shut up" and not voice your opinion. 

Why?

Quote from: blinky on January 15, 2013, 09:55:35 PMThis decision was forced on CAP by the National Commander and the de-powered board of governors does not concur.

Your evidence of this is? ("Depowered" BOG? Seriously?)

Quote from: blinky on January 15, 2013, 09:55:35 PMThe bottom line is the decision to move squadron commanders out after 4 years is better done at the wing and group level - not from remote people in high places making arbitrary rules.

"Remote People" making decisions is the definition of a paramilitary organization.  All rules are "arbitrary", especially when you don't agree.
It never ceases to amaze how people want the trappings and benefits of a paramilitary organization, but still want it to function as a democracy.

And just to take my guess - your unit has a "beloved" unit CC who will be effected by this, and can't "possibly replaced", even with an additional 4 years to train the replacement up and with no requirement that he/she leave the unit.  Close?

Stagnation serves no one.

"That Others May Zoom"

JeffDG

Quote from: Eclipse on January 15, 2013, 10:09:24 PM
And just to take my guess - your unit has a "beloved" unit CC who will be effected by this, and can't "possibly replaced", even with an additional 4 years to train the replacement up and with no requirement that he/she leave the unit.  Close?
As I read the reg, a long-term commander does not have "an additional 4 years" to train the replacement, but must be replaced immediately.

Eclipse

Quote from: JeffDG on January 15, 2013, 10:14:07 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on January 15, 2013, 10:09:24 PM
And just to take my guess - your unit has a "beloved" unit CC who will be effected by this, and can't "possibly replaced", even with an additional 4 years to train the replacement up and with no requirement that he/she leave the unit.  Close?
As I read the reg, a long-term commander does not have "an additional 4 years" to train the replacement, but must be replaced immediately.

Yeah, you're right. even better.

I was thinking about the limits in my Region which, when originally instituted a decade ago, basically reset the clock and the CC had an additional 3 years (no more then 4) to serve.

"That Others May Zoom"

blinky

#6
Quote from: Eclipse on January 15, 2013, 10:09:24 PM
Quote from: blinky on January 15, 2013, 09:55:35 PMthe new rule regarding squadron commander term limits concerns me very much.  Some people want you to "shut up" and not voice your opinion. 

Why?

Quote from: blinky on January 15, 2013, 09:55:35 PMThis decision was forced on CAP by the National Commander and the de-powered board of governors does not concur.

Your evidence of this is? ("Depowered" BOG? Seriously?)

Quote from: blinky on January 15, 2013, 09:55:35 PMThe bottom line is the decision to move squadron commanders out after 4 years is better done at the wing and group level - not from remote people in high places making arbitrary rules.

"Remote People" making decisions is the definition of a paramilitary organization.  All rules are "arbitrary", especially when you don't agree.
It never ceases to amaze how people want the trappings and benefits of a paramilitary organization, but still want it to function as a democracy.

And just to take my guess - your unit has a "beloved" unit CC who will be effected by this, and can't "possibly replaced", even with an additional 4 years to train the replacement up and with no requirement that he/she leave the unit.  Close?

Stagnation serves no one.

You do know that the BOG does not concur with Gen Carr on this right?  And yes we like our SC (cc?) just fine.  The primary problem is that have 90 days to replace with no replacement - a story that I am hearing all over unfortunately.

blinky

#7
Quote from: Eclipse on January 15, 2013, 10:18:08 PM
Quote from: JeffDG on January 15, 2013, 10:14:07 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on January 15, 2013, 10:09:24 PM
And just to take my guess - your unit has a "beloved" unit CC who will be effected by this, and can't "possibly replaced", even with an additional 4 years to train the replacement up and with no requirement that he/she leave the unit.  Close?
As I read the reg, a long-term commander does not have "an additional 4 years" to train the replacement, but must be replaced immediately.

Yeah, you're right. even better.

I was thinking about the limits in my Region which, when originally instituted a decade ago, basically reset the clock and the CC had an additional 3 years (no more then 4) to serve.

Dude - don't just be ignorant - this does NOT impact CC's.

Eclipse

Quote from: blinky on January 15, 2013, 10:18:54 PMYou do know that the BOG does not concur with Gen Carr on this right?  And yes we like our SC (cc?) just fine. 

Again, evidence of this?  They have the full power to dictate a change if that is true.

Quote from: blinky on January 15, 2013, 10:18:54 PM
The primary problem is that have 90 days to replace with no replacement - a story that I am hearing all over unfortunately.

Then they have literally failed.  Transition and change is reality.  Units with no transition plan are not only denying their people opportunities,
but also risk disappearing overnight - I've seen that more then once.  People get busy, sick, and yes, die.  And with no plan, the
"successful" unit dies overnight.

Any unit that cannot replace a CC in 90 days is either too small for its own good, or has been essentially a one-man show, neither is appropriate.


"That Others May Zoom"

Eclipse

Quote from: blinky on January 15, 2013, 10:23:53 PMDude - don't just be ignorant - this does NOT impact CC's.

CC is the office symbol for Commander.

Dude.

"That Others May Zoom"

blinky

#10
Quote from: Eclipse on January 15, 2013, 10:28:15 PM
Quote from: blinky on January 15, 2013, 10:23:53 PMDude - don't just be ignorant - this does NOT impact CC's.

CC is the office symbol for Commander.

Dude.

I'll repost this since you are in both threads too.  So - being that CAP is primarily a youth organization with a small cadre of planes and pilots - I think a comparison to BSA is pretty apt here.  BSA has 3.7 million members and CAP has 60k.  Just to put that in terms you might understand Eclipse - if CAP and BSA were both cadet squadrons - the CAP squadron would have 10 cadets and the BSA squadron would have 500 cadets.  So - since you are satisfied being from a squadron with 10 cadets - then more power to ya son.  You probably weren't born then - but back in the 70's BSA and CAP were considered on par with each other and there was healthy competition between them for youth.  Over the last 40 years BSA pretty much blew CAP out of the water in terms of growth and programs while CAP has stagnated.  BSA didn't bother to create this great new rule that throws out scout masters every 4 years.  You know why?  Because only an idiot would make that rule in an all volunteer organization.

Eclipse

Quote from: blinky on January 15, 2013, 10:37:28 PMbeing that CAP is primarily a youth organization with a small cadre of planes and pilots

Again showing you have no idea what you are talking about.

National Cadet Count: 26384 (as of 31 Dec 2012)
National Senior Count: 34463 (as of 31 Dec 2012)

Anything else?

"That Others May Zoom"

blinky

#12
Quote from: Eclipse on January 15, 2013, 10:40:29 PM
Quote from: blinky on January 15, 2013, 10:37:28 PMbeing that CAP is primarily a youth organization with a small cadre of planes and pilots

Again showing you have no idea what you are talking about.

National Cadet Count: 26384 (as of 31 Dec 2012)
National Senior Count: 34463 (as of 31 Dec 2012)

Anything else?

Oh not 60,000 - 60,847.  Yipee.  Good grief - 26k cadets?  That is a massive failure and what you seem blind to is that this decision is just one more nail in the coffin of CAP.  Membership in CAP is on a downward spiral and CAP will eventually cease to exist because of people with organizational tunnel vision.  Good luck with that.  Meanwhile people like me who care about the future of CAP are not going to sit idly by and watch.

Eclipse

#13
Quote from: blinky on January 15, 2013, 10:55:30 PMMembership in CAP is on a downward spiral

Evidence?

CAP's membership has been essentially static in the last decade, while the BSA has lost nearly 2 million members in that
same time period.

They are completely different organizations with different goals, demographics, and even membership pool.  Both have challenges
both have struggled, but comparing them they way you are indicates a fundamental misunderstanding of both organizations.

BSA leadership is cyclical by design, because with no adult program, the majority of the Troop leadership is parents who
tend to move on when their Scouts do, so the need for term limits is much less prevalent.

CAP is much less cyclical because many, if not most, of the unit leaders are adults who joined to be part of the Senior program
and for whom command was either an evolution or a matter of circumstances.  We have far less cadet parents who are unit
leaders, and it is also not uncommon for parents to remain in the organization far beyond the involvement of their cadets.


I think we'll be OK.

"That Others May Zoom"

Майор Хаткевич

Blinky needs reading comprehension. We have more SMs than cadets. We are NOT a cadet organization. BSA and CAP were never equals, nor are we supposed to be. Also, eclipse may not be old, but he's certainly not a noob or my age, and has enough CAP 'street cred' to make itclear you ddon't know your audience. At all.

Critical AOA


Blinky,

I have a question for you as I missed it in your posts. I know you are a parent of two cadets but are you a member yourself?  If not, I'd encourage you to join as the best way to effect change is within an organization, not from the outside.   There is always a need for dedicated Senior members in Cadet Programs and as that seems to be your major interest in CAP, you might want to channel your energies in a positive direction to the betterment of the organization.   

However if you think that the BSA is superior to CAP then you should move your kids to that organization.  Why stick them with a lesser organization?

As to membership numbers, CAP attracts a narrower slice of the youth pie.  CAP attracts those who are interested in either aviation or the military or both.  BSA attracts a larger and maybe different variety of kids.  Nothing wrong with either but comparing them is a proverbial apples and oranges debate.  I will state that CAP could do a better job in regards to marketing and recruiting but that is a different argument for a different thread, which there have been many of.
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."   - George Bernard Shaw

blinky

#16
Quote from: David Vandenbroeck on January 15, 2013, 11:09:18 PM

Blinky,

I have a question for you as I missed it in your posts. I know you are a parent of two cadets but are you a member yourself?  If not, I'd encourage you to join as the best way to effect change is within an organization, not from the outside.   There is always a need for dedicated Senior members in Cadet Programs and as that seems to be your major interest in CAP, you might want to channel your energies in a positive direction to the betterment of the organization.   

However if you think that the BSA is superior to CAP then you should move your kids to that organization.  Why stick them with a lesser organization?

As to membership numbers, CAP attracts a narrower slice of the youth pie.  CAP attracts those who are interested in either aviation or the military or both.  BSA attracts a larger and maybe different variety of kids.  Nothing wrong with either but comparing them is a proverbial apples and oranges debate.  I will state that CAP could do a better job in regards to marketing and recruiting but that is a different argument for a different thread, which there have been many of.

I'm a SM - and I've served in several roles.  I'm not saying BSA is superior to CAP - in fact I feel quite the opposite.  CAP teaches things BSA could never hope to teach.  I also agree it's a smaller slice.  I've only been a SM for 5 years - but in my short stint it has become clear that CAP is loosing it's mission and it's clout.  So - it breaks my heart to see moves like this that (like so much other crap coming down the pipe) seem bent on driving cadets away.

Майор Хаткевич

Can I suggest you step up and command?

Eclipse

I'd still like you to either support or recant your assertion about the BOG.

"That Others May Zoom"

blinky

#19
Quote from: usafaux2004 on January 15, 2013, 11:19:56 PM
Can I suggest you step up and command?

Considering it to be sure, but the SC is a time consuming job that needs devotion to be done correctly.  I unfortunately am not in a position to devote that time.  Wish I was.  Which makes it even more of a shame because our SC does and he is good.