Senior Members in Formation?

[Stonewall]

He told me a story in which his unit had to take one test running as a unit. Although the commander was within the correct HT-WT standards, she was so exhausted she was almost ready to drop out. My co-TAC stated he told another NCO "you carry her I will carry her equipment" on top of his own equipment which was an M-60 machine gun. The unit finished the run, everyone with no demerits.

That was the old AF which was having more of an identity crisis than it is today.  Still, the AF, as far as height, weight, and PT standards go, is a joke.  Although I smoke the AF PT test (I got a 100% earlier this month), I still disagree with it, especially the silly waist measurement part.  I am 40 years old.  Weighed in at 195 lbs with a 35" waist; did 49 push-ups, 55 sit-ups, and ran 1 1/2 miles in 9:11.  Although I'm pleased with my performance, I still think it is a worthless test, especially the silly waist part.  I know A LOT of highly capable war fighters that actually fail the PT test solely because of their larger waist.  They can out run, shoot, ruck, and fight better than most, but because they have a bigger waist, they fail.

[AngelWings]

Stonewall, was there ever a noted purpose for the waist measurement? I know some guys who have a small waist but near pregnant girl bellies, and some in shape guys who have a big waist to accompany their massively built bodies.

[Garibaldi]

Why would anyone obese stuff themselves in the picklesuit? You'd look like a green sausage running around? I am entitled to talk, I am a former big guy myself 

As for Seniors standing in formation, I could see an opportunity to have a cadet or two from the senior staff teach Seniors how to stand at formation in a composite squadron! It would be one helluva sight, that is for sure 

Actually, I do remember a very large cadet wearing green fatigues at encampment. They had to sew THREE blue belts together to make it around his waist, as well as an additional panel or two in the shirt and pants. It was the only choice he had, apparently, aside from losing about 200 pounds, as there was no other optional uniform for him.

[AngelWings]

Why would anyone obese stuff themselves in the picklesuit? You'd look like a green sausage running around? I am entitled to talk, I am a former big guy myself 

As for Seniors standing in formation, I could see an opportunity to have a cadet or two from the senior staff teach Seniors how to stand at formation in a composite squadron! It would be one helluva sight, that is for sure 

Actually, I do remember a very large cadet wearing green fatigues at encampment. They had to sew THREE blue belts together to make it around his waist, as well as an additional panel or two in the shirt and pants. It was the only choice he had, apparently, aside from losing about 200 pounds, as there was no other optional uniform for him.

What? I hate to be mean, but wouldn't be a huge liability? I've gotten up to a pretty big size in my life before, at 5" and 240 before becoming 5"5' and 180 (maintaining because I am building muscle, which is getting noticable  ) and even I didn't need that much belt. How did he perform? I'm positive he must've been restricted from a lot of PT and standing.

[A.Member]

This, versus the uniform of my current squadron in a mix of uniforms.

I know you said you're not active there currently but do you know why do they have a mix of BDU's and Blues?  Do they publish a uniform of the day?

Also, FWIW, in our squadron, cadets without uniforms must stand in the back of the formation.  A cadet in jeans in t-shirt would never be allowed up front.

[Garibaldi]

Why would anyone obese stuff themselves in the picklesuit? You'd look like a green sausage running around? I am entitled to talk, I am a former big guy myself 

As for Seniors standing in formation, I could see an opportunity to have a cadet or two from the senior staff teach Seniors how to stand at formation in a composite squadron! It would be one helluva sight, that is for sure 

Actually, I do remember a very large cadet wearing green fatigues at encampment. They had to sew THREE blue belts together to make it around his waist, as well as an additional panel or two in the shirt and pants. It was the only choice he had, apparently, aside from losing about 200 pounds, as there was no other optional uniform for him.

What? I hate to be mean, but wouldn't be a huge liability? I've gotten up to a pretty big size in my life before, at 5" and 240 before becoming 5"5' and 180 (maintaining because I am building muscle, which is getting noticable  ) and even I didn't need that much belt. How did he perform? I'm positive he must've been restricted from a lot of PT and standing.

He wasn't in my flight but he did have issues. He made it to 2 encampments but i never saw him again and no one ever said what happened or where he was. Looked like he jumped in a pool and out again at the end of the day.

[Private Investigator]

This, versus the uniform of my current squadron in a mix of uniforms.

I know you said you're not active there currently but do you know why do they have a mix of BDU's and Blues?  Do they publish a uniform of the day?

Also, FWIW, in our squadron, cadets without uniforms must stand in the back of the formation.  A cadet in jeans in t-shirt would never be allowed up front.

My current Squadron does a uniform of the day which is ignored by some indivuals.

Same here. Cadets form up by the uniform they have. Jeans and t-shirts is always at the back.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

I didn't read the whole thing, but I wanted to add my two cents... ( I don't have enough time to read it all this morning)



When I was in the Army formation was second nature having been a cadet, and it was comfortable to me. After basic trainingwhen we got to our duty unit, many thought we would stop the formation thing, and they would complain and ask why in the world we have to do this dumb mickey mouse stuff.

Our platoon sergeant tried explaining that's just what's done... And I explained it like this... Formation serves a purpose, it builds a team by keeping units together and not allowing clicks to form. It also allows for moving from one place or another while allowing for team building exercises to happen at the same time, the same goes for running pt in formation, team building and esprit de corps can be built while running in formation. It also make you more used to being around and working with the team members you don't like, face it, there are some in every team. When it comes to morning formation it allows for things I won't mention here, but morning and closing formation makes it easier to put out and gather information.

Surprisingly after I made that explanation, people started hating it a little less and started using it to their advantage. Formation is a good thing, don't shun it, try it for a few months before you throw out the idea.

[Stonewall]

This, versus the uniform of my current squadron in a mix of uniforms.

I know you said you're not active there currently but do you know why do they have a mix of BDU's and Blues?  Do they publish a uniform of the day?

Also, FWIW, in our squadron, cadets without uniforms must stand in the back of the formation.  A cadet in jeans in t-shirt would never be allowed up front.

Again, I am not active, but one of my top 3 pet peeves is people accepting the old adage of "just wear what you have". 

NO! 

T-Flight, the new cadets enrolled in the 8-week basic cadet training program wear blue jeans with a belt, plain black t-shirt, and athletic shoes or military boots.  Cadets do not graduate T-Flight (together) until they have a COMPLETE set of BDUs; name tapes and all.  And T-Flight is their own separate flight.  If there are only 2 cadets in T-Flight, so be it.

I always mandated that BDUs be the first/primary uniform because...well, that's what I decided.  Immediately following their graduation from T-Flight we worked on getting them a complete set of blues.

BDUs were worn to all but 1 meeting per month, moral leadership/AE night.  If, and only if, you were a recent T-Flight graduate, could you wear BDUs on a blues night, but 9x out of 10, they had blues within 2 months of T-Flight graduation.

AND NEVER, EVER, would I allow cadets to wear an incomplete uniform.  It's the opposite of "book them and they will come".  Instead, I said "require it, and they will make it happen".  Why?  Because people will go to high heaven, to acquire what they need to fit in.  It's like showing up to your football game and not having a jersey.  It just sucks.

[Garibaldi]

This, versus the uniform of my current squadron in a mix of uniforms.

I know you said you're not active there currently but do you know why do they have a mix of BDU's and Blues?  Do they publish a uniform of the day?

Also, FWIW, in our squadron, cadets without uniforms must stand in the back of the formation.  A cadet in jeans in t-shirt would never be allowed up front.

Again, I am not active, but one of my top 3 pet peeves is people accepting the old adage of "just wear what you have". 

NO! 

T-Flight, the new cadets enrolled in the 8-week basic cadet training program wear blue jeans with a belt, plain black t-shirt, and athletic shoes or military boots.  Cadets do not graduate T-Flight (together) until they have a COMPLETE set of BDUs; name tapes and all.  And T-Flight is their own separate flight.  If there are only 2 cadets in T-Flight, so be it.

I always mandated that BDUs be the first/primary uniform because...well, that's what I decided.  Immediately following their graduation from T-Flight we worked on getting them a complete set of blues

BDUs were worn to all but 1 meeting per month, morale leadership/AE night.  If, and only if, you were a recent T-Flight graduate, could you wear BDUs on a blues night, but 9x out of 10, they had blues within 2 months of T-Flight graduation.

AND NEVER, EVER, would I allow cadets to wear an incomplete uniform.  It's the opposite of "book them and they will come".  Instead, I said "require it, and they will make it happen".  Why?  Because people will go to high heaven, to acquire what they need to fit in.  It's like showing up to your football game and not having a jersey.  It just sucks.

I'm about to change wings and go back to my old cadet unit in Georgia. The CC told me he wants to "restore the unit to the glory of the 80's", which is when I was in, so I'm hoping that my dinosaur ideas about things might go over. Things like proper uniform wear, a T-flight, stressing the importance of proper C&C between cadets and seniors, inspections by the cadet staff, and just a general esprit de corps that I feel is generally lacking. I'm not advocating a return to the pre-CPPT days, far from it. There are lines and there are lines. But this is my heritage and I want to see that unit scream to the top of the food chain. Drill Comps, color guards, being the best drilled and best behaved cadets at wing and national activities, being the go-to unit for ES, being the cadets that other cadets look to for instruction when everyone is dumped in a big group somewhere.

Maybe that's a lofty goal, but eventually it will happen. Oh yes, it will happen. My goal is to have new cadets in proper uniform within 4 weeks of joining, which is what we used to do. We busted our butts to get everyone turned out properly, even using our own allowances to order stuff from the Bookstore.

Needless to say, I'm excited about this challenge for next year.

[Stonewall]

Where in GA again?   We may be able to link up for some joint training.

[Garibaldi]

Where in GA again?   We may be able to link up for some joint training.

DeKalb County Cadet Squadron GA-065. I'd love to do joint training when I get active again.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

My first squadron (composite) did it.

CADET FLIGHT, FALL IN!

SENIOR FLIGHT, FALL IN!

"Sir, Cadet Flight present and accounted for."

"Sir, Senior Flight present and accounted for."

CADET FLIGHT, FALL OUT!

SENIOR FLIGHT, FALL OUT!

Of course, this was in a unit that exclusively wore the AF-style uniform (albeit with bloody awful berry boards) and enforced uniform standards, C&C's etc.

Over six years serving with that unit I came to believe that was how it was all through CAP.

Man-oh-man, was I wrong.

[Stonewall]

Where in GA again?   We may be able to link up for some joint training.

DeKalb County Cadet Squadron GA-065. I'd love to do joint training when I get active again.

Got it.  Close to Sandy Springs Cadet Squadron...an awesome squadron!  I think it's time to start planning.

[Garibaldi]

Where in GA again?   We may be able to link up for some joint training.

DeKalb County Cadet Squadron GA-065. I'd love to do joint training when I get active again.

Got it.  Close to Sandy Springs Cadet Squadron...an awesome squadron!  I think it's time to start planning.

Sandy Springs is our rival/sister unit.

[GroundHawg]

My first squadron (composite) did it.

CADET FLIGHT, FALL IN!

SENIOR FLIGHT, FALL IN!

"Sir, Cadet Flight present and accounted for."

"Sir, Senior Flight present and accounted for."

CADET FLIGHT, FALL OUT!

SENIOR FLIGHT, FALL OUT!

Of course, this was in a unit that exclusively wore the AF-style uniform (albeit with bloody awful berry boards) and enforced uniform standards, C&C's etc.

Over six years serving with that unit I came to believe that was how it was all through CAP.

Man-oh-man, was I wrong.

This is how it is done in our squadron, I cant imagine seniors just standing around, and not being formed up...

[Eclipse]

August 2006.

Note the uniformity in the senior formation.
Members were grouped by the uniform type they wore to present a structured appearance.
(This set of photos also features USAFAUX2004 in full HGA regalia, but I won't post without his permission)

[Майор Хаткевич]

Go ahead sir.

As a side note, a future PJ in that cadet flight.

[Eclipse]

Go ahead sir.

As a side note, a future PJ in that cadet flight.

A LoadToad, too.  Lots of "future" and too much, "not around no'mo' "

http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=3357.msg297681#msg297681

[docbiochem33]

I have seen seniors that will fall in with the cadets and others who will not.  The few seniors who did fall in were usually in the command staff.  I usually didn't fall in because I was Admin/ Personnel and was busy from the moment I arrived.  Thankfully I had a commander that understood this and was more than happy to excuse me from meetings (It was hard to get everything people needed in just 2.5 hours a week.)

Our DCC would have all of his staff out there at first to show them an example.  I thought this was good for the cadets since it showed them that we all were active. We were so much like you would see on AD with the staff where staff was out in all formations.  Even seniors had to address each other by rank in front of cadets (something I didn't always see with CAP.)