Politics...and not the CAP kind...

[mikebank]

In our last meeting, last month my Squadron Commander made a point in saying something about the subject to make sure that ended right there, there were a few comment in a couple of meetings. before.

Here in Missouri that kind of thing can get out of hand pretty quickly...

[RogueLeader]

Ah, I see. So the consensus is, "We never learned how to discuss as adults situations that affect the entire country, so we should not be attempting to teach the next generation of adults and voters how to do such things so that maybe our country has a better chance of engaging in more mature debates about politically sensitive subjects in the future and have some hope of actually solving these problems, even though one of the goals of the cadet program is to build dynamic citizens and leaders in our country."

Got it. 

No. The consensus is that "It is not appropriate here in CAP."  If you want to discuss it outside of that, fair game.  Just don't do it in uniform please.

[Critical AOA]

Ah, I see. So the consensus is, "We never learned how to discuss as adults situations that affect the entire country, so we should not be attempting to teach the next generation of adults and voters how to do such things so that maybe our country has a better chance of engaging in more mature debates about politically sensitive subjects in the future and have some hope of actually solving these problems, even though one of the goals of the cadet program is to build dynamic citizens and leaders in our country."

Got it. 

:clap: :clap: :clap:

[Eclipse]

Ah, I see. So the consensus is, "We never learned how to discuss as adults situations that affect the entire country, so we should not be attempting to teach the next generation of adults and voters how to do such things so that maybe our country has a better chance of engaging in more mature debates about politically sensitive subjects in the future and have some hope of actually solving these problems, even though one of the goals of the cadet program is to build dynamic citizens and leaders in our country."

No.  It is inappropriate in CAP.

Period.

[Critical AOA]

CAP as an organization may be apolitical and that is understandable.  CAP as an organization should not voice support of a candidate or party or voice disdain for another.  However, there is absolutely no reason or expectation that the members themselves be apolitical.  Nor should they be expected to refrain from political conversation when with fellow CAP members, at a CAP activity or even when in uniform.  The only expectation is to do so with decorum and civility. 

[AngelWings]

There is no benefit to talking about political beliefs. You do not craft leaders by telling them what they should believe in, but by allowing them to find the reason why they need or want to believe in something. Unless the cadets are your kids (and you do it on non CAP business), you have NO right to talk about political beliefs with them (except in a few rare cases).

There is a fine line between discussing actual politics (the processes involved in it, the positions, etc.) and beliefs (hot key topics, who's better and why, etc.). Most people do not like discussing political process and its history. They like to talk about their beliefs.

CAP is a professional organization that provides a valuable service to the country unparalled by any other organization. CAP is NOT CNN, Fox, MSNBC, etc. Save it when you're drinking a bud with yours buds or something. Or with the few CAP members you're extremely close with and know generally what they believe.

The heated discussions and the lack of respect that could develope between two or more people is enough to say we should not discuss politics.

[Майор Хаткевич]

CAP as an organization may be apolitical and that is understandable.  CAP as an organization should not voice support of a candidate or party or voice disdain for another.  However, there is absolutely no reason or expectation that the members themselves be apolitical.  Nor should they be expected to refrain from political conversation when with fellow CAP members, at a CAP activity or even when in uniform.  The only expectation is to do so with decorum and civility.

The problem with that is that it doesn't happen. "That mooslim ain't mah president!" is not a way to start any conversation.

[Nathan]

Ah, I see. So the consensus is, "We never learned how to discuss as adults situations that affect the entire country, so we should not be attempting to teach the next generation of adults and voters how to do such things so that maybe our country has a better chance of engaging in more mature debates about politically sensitive subjects in the future and have some hope of actually solving these problems, even though one of the goals of the cadet program is to build dynamic citizens and leaders in our country."

No.  It is inappropriate in CAP.

Period.

That's not a logical argument. Which maybe you would know if you had been taught how to make proper arguments as a CAP cadet.

[ZigZag911]

If you look at ANY US military officer's guide it counsels against discussing politics, religion and certain other topics within the unit.

Experience has taught that these conversations often create unnecessary disharmony within an organization.

There are other places where our cadets can learn to debate, e.g., school!

[Nathan]

If you look at ANY US military officer's guide it counsels against discussing politics, religion and certain other topics within the unit.

Experience has taught that these conversations often create unnecessary disharmony within an organization.

The job of the military is very different from the job of the cadet program. Soldiers are expected to kill people and break things. Debates about politics lend nothing toward that mission.

Cadets are expected to become dynamic leaders and citizens. Such a goal would be achieved by ensuring the cadets are educated on the issues currently facing the nation, which is part of being a good citizen. If cadets flounder around and are unable to think critically about real issues that our country is dealing with, how exactly are they becoming good citizens?

[cap235629]

There are other places where our cadets can learn to debate, e.g., school!

where our children are indoctrinated to accept a liberal ideology? Where prayer is outlawed? Where most schools find the Pledge of Allegiance inappropriate?  My son was in a "competitive speech" class and was looked upon by his teacher as the devil himself because of his less than liberal views.....

[Stonewall]

I found this to be a great tool if you're undecided.  http://www.isidewith.com/presidential-election-quiz?from=88067440

Not knowing fully where each candidate sits on a number of subjects, I was worried about my gut feeling on who I would vote for.  Fortunately, for me, my gut was accurate by a land slide.  I shared this with a number of people who were planning to vote opposite of me [for the wrong reasons] and they were shocked where their interests and concerns for the nation favored a candidate they were against.

[AngelWings]

There are other places where our cadets can learn to debate, e.g., school!

where our children are indoctrinated to accept a liberal ideology? Where prayer is outlawed? Where most schools find the Pledge of Allegiance inappropriate?  My son was in a "competitive speech" class and was looked upon by his teacher as the devil himself because of his less than liberal views.....

And that is a classic example of why we should NEVER speak of political beliefs. Trust me, I am not disagreeing with you or really agreeing with you, and I am sure I know what you're getting at, but that's why. You're going to cause someone to pipe up and challenge you about your beliefs.

[Eclipse]

That's not a logical argument. Which maybe you would know if you had been taught how to make proper arguments as a CAP cadet.

That's because it's an experiential statement of fact.

Something you'll understand after you've had some.

[Nathan]

That's not a logical argument. Which maybe you would know if you had been taught how to make proper arguments as a CAP cadet.

That's because it's an experiential statement of fact.

Something you'll understand after you've had some.

There's a good reason we don't rely on anecdotes in academia. A single person's perspective of the world is not how the world works.

Such a logical fallacy, by the way, is something we could teach cadets to avoid if they were allowed to make arguments that could produce such error.

[Eclipse]

Acamedia is your issue here.

Hint: The real world doesn't care what the books say.

It's also not a single person's perspective, and in fact, your reactions here are the text book example as to why these discussions are verboten among friends, family, business, and especially CAP.

[Nathan]

Acamedia is your issue here.

Hint: The real world doesn't care what the books say.

It's also not a single person's perspective, and in fact, your reactions here are the text book example as to why these discussions are verboten among friends, family, business, and especially CAP.

Whoa whoa whoa... I thought that you didn't trust the text books... so. why are you paying attention to my "text book reactions"? 

You're on a roll today.

But I'm not going to get into a debate about you over the value of education.

[SarDragon]

I think we're getting a lot of bypassing here.

We can teach the cadets about opinions and discussions without getting into specific A is better than B is better than C arguments. Throw in some info on logical fallacies without too much "deer in the headlights" reaction, and they will have a good foundation on "here's how".

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

There are other places where our cadets can learn to debate, e.g., school!

where our children are indoctrinated to accept a liberal ideology? Where prayer is outlawed? Where most schools find the Pledge of Allegiance inappropriate?  My son was in a "competitive speech" class and was looked upon by his teacher as the devil himself because of his less than liberal views.....

And that is a classic example of why we should NEVER speak of political beliefs. Trust me, I am not disagreeing with you or really agreeing with you, and I am sure I know what you're getting at, but that's why. You're going to cause someone to pipe up and challenge you about your beliefs.

This is exactly the line of thinking I was referring to...sticking someone with a political label just because you don't agree with them.

Personally, I think the labels of "liberal" and "conservative" are a crock of Bravo Sierra in general, and bad for CAP interpersonal relations in particular.

[ProdigalJim]

You know, just as a coincidence, a CAP acquaintance (of the sort who just recently discovered this thing called "The Internet") on Monday spammed a unit membership list, along with a few of his own friends and family, with one of those periodic emails that bounces around every political season -- the kind of "outraged" or "shocked" message that generally started eight or 10 years ago, a few dates and details change but the gist is the same, and you go on Snopes to find it's bunk.

I reminded him of this very point, that political stuff is inappropriate *in a CAP context* not because it's not a worthy discussion but because of the perceived pressure to conform to a set of views in an organization in which lines of authority are fairly strict. No need to get people thinking there's a litmus test for participation or advancement.

I also pointed him privately to 128 (no joke) separate links debunking the mythology he was sending around...haven't heard back yet.