Can't join the local unit

[Flying Pig]

Hi All,

I have never posted here before - I need some advice about joining a unit.

I have been a senior member in CAP for a number of years. Recently, I moved to a new state and decided to join the local senior squadron. I went to the meeting and introduced myself. The meeting went OK and I decided that I'd like to join, so I waited around for the squadron commander to have a moment and told him I'd like to join. I'm a pilot, BTW. Now, anywhere else I've been it would just be a matter of telling him my ID number and I'd be transferred in. Not so here. He told me that I'd have to attend meetings for a few months and then I'd also have to be voted on by the membership committee. Also, he told me that most of the squadron's "work" gets decided on at the local bar after the meetings and I'd have to attend there as well. Again he told me I should hang around and let the guys get to know me and see if they'd be OK with me joining the unit.

So I went to the bar with them and they basically carried on like a bunch of drucnken sailors. I really want  to bee in CAP and this is the only unit within resaonable distance with an airplane but I get the distinct idea that I am unwelcome here perhaps because I don't drink for religious and health reasons. Like it's a closed fraternity. It just seems wrong that I can't just join the unit and participate - they never asked me anything about my CAP quailifications, or assignments or even my rank. I went away feeling rather hurt and wonder if I shouldn't be filing a complaint with the IG. Can anyone give any advice here?

THanks

"the new guy"

:clap: Open mouth, insert foot. So, what was your motive for coming on here and bashing your "new" Squadron and its commander since your Squadron Commander seems to have a much different version of the evening.  Gotta love that anonymous posting option. Sometimes it'll get ya.  Good luck with your new unit.

Johan, I would look at your Sq CC's post, specifically line #8. 

[Krapenhoeffer]

Then I take back everything I say, Capflyer. It appears to me that the accusations are unfounded, and this juror of the Supreme Court of CAPTalk  votes not guilty by reason of blowing things out of proportion.

Carry on, good job, etc...

I'll just shut up now.

[Johann1827]

Yep you got me CapFlyer.

I was *trying* *very hard* to get helpful advice from fellow cap members about what to do and I was *trying* *very hard* to do it without identifying the offending unit. You sort of blew my cover.

I stand behind everything that I wrote. I was very troubled by what I saw at your unit. Respectfully, I withdraw my request  to join your unit - and I was able to make that decision about 30 minutes after being in the bar. I am here to be a voluteer emergency services pilot. I am here to be as professional as possible. I am not intersted in being a part of a closed bawdy foul mouthed beer drinking pilot fraternity.

What really bugged me was the closed fraternity. Any other CAP unit I have been to has welcomed me with open arms - just give them a CAP ID, have the paperwork check out and go for a check flight just to make sure. Always very very friednly and helpful. There are no informal "membership committees" that need to be satisified by having the right "personality". We in CAP are supposed to be professional in our conduct. What I saw that evening really bothered me, including the bad mouthing of the neighboring CAP squadron.

Again, I was trying to get help from fellow CAP members and trying to do it as anonymously as possible. T the others here, I was really trying to sort through something very troubling for me and I do appreciate the comments - positive and negative - that were shared here.

Please re-read my post. I just did, and I stand by what I wrote.

[Flying Pig]

If you transferred to my unit, you would need to attend a few meetings and go through a membership board before I accept you in, so its not uncommon.  Quite honestly, it seems like it worked out for you.  Before you joined, you were able to make a decision.  Whether you decided or they decided, it will probably work out for all involved.  What I have found though, is that if your going to call someone out, unless its criminal or you fear for your safety, either attach your name to it, or keep it to yourself.

[Johann1827]

I didn't call him out. He self identified.

[Flying Pig]

.  Don't start making it a safety issue, you were not even at a CAP meeting.  The meeting (which by your claim was actually decent) was over.  Do you have evidence of them flying intoxicated?  What are your safety issues? 

[Flying Pig]

Dude, you need to quite editing your posts.  You cited safety issues relating to aviation based on the members performance you witnessed.  Did you change your mind?

[lordmonar]

Yep you got me CapFlyer.

I was *trying* *very hard* to get helpful advice from fellow cap members about what to do and I was *trying* *very hard* to do it without identifying the offending unit. You sort of blew my cover.

I stand behind everything that I wrote. I was very troubled by what I saw at your unit. Respectfully, I withdraw my request  to join your unit - and I was able to make that decision about 30 minutes after being in the bar. I am here to be a voluteer emergency services pilot. I am here to be as professional as possible. I am not intersted in being a part of a closed bawdy foul mouthed beer drinking pilot fraternity.

What really bugged me was the closed fraternity. Any other CAP unit I have been to has welcomed me with open arms - just give them a CAP ID, have the paperwork check out and go for a check flight just to make sure. Always very very friednly and helpful. There are no informal "membership committees" that need to be satisified by having the right "personality". We in CAP are supposed to be professional in our conduct. What I saw that evening really bothered me, including the bad mouthing of the neighboring CAP squadron.

Again, I was trying to get help from fellow CAP members and trying to do it as anonymously as possible. T the others here, I was really trying to sort through something very troubling for me and I do appreciate the comments - positive and negative - that were shared here.

Please re-read my post. I just did, and I stand by what I wrote.

Would not have happened in my unit.

We vet everyone....new people, transfees, even members of the squadron who have let their memberships laps for more then six month have to go back to the membership board.  Sometimes it is just a formality...but we do it to insure we keep out those we don't want.

One of the problems of having to move around is that you have to reestablish yourself at each new unit.  And YOU have to make the effort to overcome the barriers that exist.

Now.....if you feel you were/are being treated unfairly, that regulations and policies are not being followed then by all means make the effort to go up the chain of command and the IG to fix the situation.

But if it is just a case of "I don't like the way they operate...or their too tight knit for met....or I did not feel welcome" there is not a lot you can do about that.  I sure wish that those situations did not exist...but they do...and I am not in any position to make squadrons change their personality just because some new member did not like it.

[Johann1827]

Yes I did change my mind and removed the remark promptly. They unit in question does have some very high time pilots and it was my hope to be able to learn from them. However, the attitudes I saw in the meeting (which reinforced experiences I have had with them in the past three years) make me "nervous" and factored into my decision to not join and to ask for advice *anonymously*.

[a2capt]

We do the same thing, even if folks are transferring. We've been burned probably as many times. All units are supposed to have a membership review board.

What the CC posted, is more along the lines of what I suspected.  But I answered with straight forward points. In my visits to units during road trips, I've attended the after-meeting get togethers as well, and to tell you, we're all pretty much alike. 

California or Kansas.. and places in between.

[Major Lord]

So hey, you still looking to joint that unit?

Major Lord

[Johann1827]

Please re-read my post. I just did, and I stand by what I wrote.

Would not have happened in my unit.

. . .

We vet everyone....

. . .

Now.....if you feel you were/are being treated unfairly, that regulations and policies are not being followed then by all means make the effort to go up the chain of command and the IG to fix the situation.

But if it is just a case of "I don't like the way they operate...or their too tight knit for met....or I did not feel welcome" there is not a lot you can do about that.  I sure wish that those situations did not exist...but they do...and I am not in any position to make squadrons change their personality just because some new member did not like it.
[/quote]

The unit meets once a month. "Several meetings" before some informal membership committe (*cough*cough* GOBs) makes a decision - based (apparently) on how well you socialize at the bar - is several months of not being able to participate effectively in CAP. That does strike me as having the appearrance of unfairness. Thus, why I sought ou8t the advice of fellow CAP members - again I was *trying* to be anonymous with respect to the unit. 

And what about the claim by the CC that they don't want students in their squadron? The squadron is at the same airport of a well known and respected aviation college. I can't think of a better win - win scenario for CAP recruiting than to have new professionally trained pilots getting involved in CAP. It seems to me more like that the real issue is they don't want their beautiful G1000 to be worn out.

[Eclipse]

I stand behind everything that I wrote.

Actually, you don't.  Not only are you posting anonymously, but its been alleged that you violated the TOS here by posting under a second account.

What really bugged me was the closed fraternity. Any other CAP unit I have been to has welcomed me with open arms - just give them a CAP ID, have the paperwork check out and go for a check flight just to make sure. Always very very friednly and helpful. There are no informal "membership committees" that need to be satisified by having the right "personality".

No, that's not how it works.  Membership committees are required by regulation.  The guideline is attending 3 consecutive meetings or more before your request for membership or transfer is considered.   This situation is exactly why I require my units to do this.

I still agree with the responses I and others gave to the scenario, which is all we can ever do on CT anyway, consider a scenario.  Personally, I would have simply let you not come back.  I would not have addressed your concerns in a public forum, but to each his own.

[Eclipse]

And what about the claim by the CC that they don't want students in their squadron? The squadron is at the same airport of a well known and respected aviation college. I can't think of a better win - win scenario for CAP recruiting than to have new professionally trained pilots getting involved in CAP. It seems to me more like that the real issue is they don't want their beautiful G1000 to be worn out.

Unit CC's are free to deny membership or transfer to anyone, and unless you can prove discrimination based on a protected class, the only recourse is to go elsewhere.

The aircraft is not owned by the unit, and as long as you are a qualified CAP pilot (i.e. Form 5), they have no say over who flies it, so your assertion is irrelevant.

[Johann1827]

If you feel I have violated TOS for asking for help and advice, then feel free to delete the account. Actually, I asked for my other account to be deleted previously so I don't have two accounts. Whatever.

Yes, the regs clearly state that the CC can deny membership. But the denial pretty much has to be for legitimate and professional reasons - CAP has a high regard for ethics, right? That the other guys in the unit might not think you are "cool" does not seem to be an ethical reason to deny or postpone or delay.

[vmstan]

Then I take back everything I say, Capflyer. It appears to me that the accusations are unfounded, and this juror of the Supreme Court of CAPTalk  votes not guilty by reason of blowing things out of proportion.

Carry on, good job, etc...

I'll just shut up now.

Me too!

[Eclipse]

If you feel I have violated TOS for asking for help and advice, then feel free to delete the account. Actually, I asked for my other account to be deleted previously so I don't have two accounts. Whatever.

Hi All,

I have never posted here before - I need some advice about joining a unit.

[Johann1827]

Johann1827 has never posted on Captalk before this time. 

Again, I was specifically asking for anonymous help. Make what you want of that.

[a2capt]

It's pretty hard to remain anonymous and cite specific examples, even when trying to "respect" the unit, you went one night. You observed one meeting, and one event of circumstance.

..and aren't you not supposed to have more than one account on here? I think so.

[a2capt]

Johann1827 has never posted on Captalk before this time. 

I love it. That explains it. Technicalities. No wonder you got that feeling at that meeting. Sigh..
Point is, it seems like nothing more than a clash of personality against several. Thats hard no matter what.