This is kinda' late but...

I read this thread with interest because I have visited this same exact unit under similar circumstances. I posted a while back about me moving to another state for a new job and was checking out new units.

I had a totally different reaction to my experience.

I also do not drink for both religious & personal reasons, however, them meeting at the club was not a problem for me. I had a water and being that I'm always one of the few people not drinking, it was a pretty familiar situation. I stayed for a while and didn't observe any drinking in excess or any behavior that was out of order. My radar for bad behavior with alcohol is pretty high, and I had no problems.

The meeting itself was professional. One of the things that has attracted me to this unit was their seriousness in training to a very high level of proficiency in mission skills. The CC said this and it stuck with me (paraphrased):

QuoteIf it was your loved one lost, would you feel qualified enough to fly the mission, or would you rather have someone who could do the job better fly it? If you don't feel proficient to search for one of your own, why should you search for someone else's loved one?

While some will certainly find this hyperbole, I was impressed at it's basic tenent: We do a serious mission and should treat it that way.

I found out that many of the unit's members have RM and LEO experience.

Being new to the wing, I've chatted with others about joining the different units in the area. While some have mentioned the more closed nature of this unit's membership and that it's not easy to get into, everyone says the they are the top ES squadron in the wing. In all honesty, this is what I wanted when I first joined CAP, and I hope that they'll take me in and let me learn from them (I'm pretty green in ES).

There is a small cadet unit 1/2 hour west of this town that hopes to expand into a composite squadron. On the east, it's probably another 1/2 hour to 45 to the nearest squadrons.

<soapbox>
I've had the opportunity to move around the country quite a bit in my life. People are people everywhere. Some people you will get along with well, some you won't. It's the same at any job, church, non-profit, school, or neighborhood. Part of life is learning how to deal with that. It's a shame that it's become so easy on the web to be so negative about people.
</soapbox>

Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on June 05, 2010, 02:39:42 AM

Quote from: lordmonar on June 05, 2010, 02:15:41 AM
RM,

How can it be okay for USAF members to drink in uniform but not the USAF Axillary members to do the same?

When you close down the O Club and make everyone be in civilian clothes then maybe I would care what you think.

If you are not making a fool out of yourself it does not matter if you are in or out of uniform.

CAP'ers are not in the military (although, there a propensity of many of them to live out their "fantasy" by going to the clubs and hanging out with the real AF guys & gals).    It is very likely they will stay more than 1 hour, thus violating the CAP policy on uniform wear after the official squadron meeting is over.  Any club membership is is privilege extended to the CAP members.   Likely wise as a military retiree IF I see an associate member doing something I don't like I have a right under the bylaws of the club to lodge a complaint about it.   That's what I will do IF I observe this behavior.  I would encourage others at other bases to do the same IF they observe that behavior by CAP personnel IN UNIFORM.

You see it really doesn't matter what CAP regulation says on this, active military personnel and retired personnel can still force some policy change at least within the respective military bases.  Frankly who really wants to go to the club to relax and have some wanna bee next to you

Hey if the CAP'ers want to change to civilian attire, I really don't care how long they stay at the military bar or even what they do.  Then they look like Joe or Jane plain guest, and not Joe or Jane 'wanna bee".   
RM

I retired an O4 and we have an O5 and a couple of O3's in the unit. We also have two members who are still active in the guard at the same base and who were with us that evening. I don't think we can be defined as "wannabees". Maybe "has beens", but not "wannabees".

I don't think you need to lecture us in what we can and cannot do.

Besides, the nearby church was closed that night, so what were we supposed to do?....

I am familiar with this unit and have worked with several of its members including its commander. These are among some of the most dedicated and professional CAP officers you will ever meet. They take their duties seriously and are constantly working to improve CAP's capabilities. And with their dedication they have a high level of unit cohesion.

I guess I could see how that level of comradery would be intimidating to a new member. I'm not sure if that is the unit's problem, or the prospective member's. And unless you're one or the other it probably isn't your place to declare which. Either way, I think it gives something for both parties to consider.

Johan1827: The squadron is a really good one. You should give them a second chance, and perhaps try to mend fences. If you stay in this wing, you're bound to work with a member from there at some point.

...On a personal note; I am not big on mixing my professional and personal lives. I rarely meet with the people I work with outside of work. And when I do I never bring my wife (only exception is our company Christmas banquet). Likewise, I don't invite my coworkers to my backyard BBQs. I treat CAP as a separate professional life although not as strict as my day job. Just my personal opinion.

Quote from: Capflyer on June 05, 2010, 02:48:22 AM
Besides, the nearby church was closed that night, so what were we supposed to do?....

What, was the gentleman's club closed?  (Inside joke)

Quote from: Walkman on June 05, 2010, 02:41:07 AM
I stayed for a while and didn't observe any drinking in excess or any behavior that was out of order. My radar for bad behavior with alcohol is pretty high, and I had no problems.

From a purely hypothetical standpoint, if CAP members were acting in a inappropriate manner in uniform while drinking, it would be a problem.

In regards to this particular unit, from what I observed on my visit, there WAS NO BAD BEHAVIOR. Settle down everyone. These aren't a bunch of drunken fools soiling the name of CAP.

Quote from: Capflyer on June 05, 2010, 02:48:22 AM

Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on June 05, 2010, 02:39:42 AM

Quote from: lordmonar on June 05, 2010, 02:15:41 AM
RM,

How can it be okay for USAF members to drink in uniform but not the USAF Axillary members to do the same?

When you close down the O Club and make everyone be in civilian clothes then maybe I would care what you think.

If you are not making a fool out of yourself it does not matter if you are in or out of uniform.

CAP'ers are not in the military (although, there a propensity of many of them to live out their "fantasy" by going to the clubs and hanging out with the real AF guys & gals).    It is very likely they will stay more than 1 hour, thus violating the CAP policy on uniform wear after the official squadron meeting is over.  Any club membership is is privilege extended to the CAP members.   Likely wise as a military retiree IF I see an associate member doing something I don't like I have a right under the bylaws of the club to lodge a complaint about it.   That's what I will do IF I observe this behavior.  I would encourage others at other bases to do the same IF they observe that behavior by CAP personnel IN UNIFORM.

You see it really doesn't matter what CAP regulation says on this, active military personnel and retired personnel can still force some policy change at least within the respective military bases.  Frankly who really wants to go to the club to relax and have some wanna bee next to you

Hey if the CAP'ers want to change to civilian attire, I really don't care how long they stay at the military bar or even what they do.  Then they look like Joe or Jane plain guest, and not Joe or Jane 'wanna bee".   
RM

Quote from Capflyer:
I retired an O4 and we have an O5 and a couple of O3's in the unit. We also have two members who are still active in the guard at the same base and who were with us that evening. I don't think we can be defined as "wannabees". Maybe "has beens", but not "wannabees".

I don't think you need to lecture us in what we can and cannot do.

Besides, the nearby church was closed that night, so what were we supposed to do?....

Whether you are retired, active duty or not, lets face it you or anyone else really doesn't need to go to a bar, military or not in Civil Air Patrol Uniforms.

Nothing wrong with retired warriors getting together in civilian clothes, you've earned that just as I have.    However, come on going in CAP uniform   ---, for military retirees & active duty members, kind of bizzare isn't it???

Hey maybe the base chaplain can open up the church for you guys

I'm not lecturing anyone I'm just expressing an opinion and what I will do.  If you don't like it, I could care less!

RM

My gawwwd,  the post was about some guy BS'ing us about his experience with a unit that was probably wise not to accept him, and you have turned it into a thread about uniforms, drinking in uniform, and our relationship with the real military and their...wait for it.... uniforms!.......There is little hope for America's future........

Major Lord

One wonders why you are in CAP if you hate us so much.

Quote from: lordmonar on June 05, 2010, 03:30:13 AM
One wonders why you are in CAP if you hate us so much.

I like CAP, I like "most" CAP members.  I clearly stated what I think about drinking in uniform.  I clearly stated what I will do if I see CAP'ers drinking in my military club's bar in uniform.   I clearly stated that CAP associate club members in civilian attire, can drink and stay as long as they want at my club.  Those are very easy "common sens" rules to follow by any mature adult.  They are reasonable and protect CAP overall from any potential in uniform incidents & bad public relations.     
RM

Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on June 05, 2010, 03:58:19 AM

Quote from: lordmonar on June 05, 2010, 03:30:13 AM
One wonders why you are in CAP if you hate us so much.

I like CAP, I like "most" CAP members.  I clearly stated what I think about drinking in uniform.  I clearly stated what I will do if I see CAP'ers drinking in my military club's bar in uniform.   I clearly stated that CAP associate club members in civilian attire, can drink and stay as long as they want at my club.  Those are very easy "common sens" rules to follow by any mature adult.  They are reasonable and protect CAP overall from any potential in uniform incidents & bad public relations.     
RM

Well, it's "my" club too, and I have no problem with CAP members drinking in "my" bar.
And I'll bet the Club Manager doesn't have a problem with it either.

No one else has pointed out, that I recall anyway, that "uniform" was never mentioned by the original poster, or the CC. Mostly Eclipse clarifying the regulations against flailing comments and RM on the usual seeming tirade about uniforms that gets weaved into every thread.

For all we know, they all changed, or they were wearing polo's and gray, with a jacket on who would even know who they are. People drink in bars. Happens all the time.

When I said in my first post, I'd question it too, based on the comments of the original poster and nothing else to go on, if that were indeed the scenario I'd question it. To whom? Myself, probably. ..and move on if I didn't like it, but the tone of the post sounded jaded anyway.  I'm glad the unit commander stepped up to clarify it, and from what I can see of several others in agreement, there's nothing out of the ordinary.

Again, sounds like the camaraderie in many other units every day.

Can't please everyone, all of the time, myself included. Oh well.

We have a gathering in Kansas City each July which is why I visit units along the road/airplane trip. One year, and each since, one of the group would go buy several boxes of Krispy Kreme's.  We had one of the others in attendance railing probably as much about how those doughnuts were not "real", how they were destroying independent shops everywhere, how this and that, and on and on for hours.  Railing on as much as this original poster seemed to, perhaps.

Dude, the KK's were free. Don't like 'em? Don't take any. Simple. Oh well.

Don't like the unit, move on. Vote with your feet. Probably loose the election anyway, but you voted. Thats the important part.

Quote from: lordmonar on June 05, 2010, 02:15:41 AM
RM,

How can it be okay for USAF members to drink in uniform but not the USAF Auxillary members to do the same?

When you close down the O Club and make everyone be in civilian clothes then maybe I would care what you think.

If you are not making a fool out of yourself it does not matter if you are in or out of uniform.

CAP has, in my experience, taken a stricter view on when it's OK to wear the uniform than the RM does, and here's my theory.

The RM has the ability to crack down on people who act "unwisely" when drinking, be they in or out of uniform. Story time: At OTS, once all your graded measures are complete and you return from your "field" week out in the Alabama backwoods, you attend "O-Club Orientation." Despite its academic-sounding name, it's basically your entire class getting together at the Maxwell O-club and celebrating the fact that you've effectively passed all your tests and are all set to graduate. Without going into details, a few trainees in my upper class committed some... ah... "buffoonery" during their orientation, and ended up taking paperwork with them to their next base. (For the non-military folk, "paperwork" is a Letter of Reprimand/Counseling/Admonishment that becomes part of your permanent service record. For officers, it's a very bad thing.)

In contrast, the harshest mechanism CAP has for dealing with such things is to kill someone's membership. If some CAP member should happen to be wearing the uniform whilst committing "buffoonery", the USAF (who has to suffer the repercussions, however minor they may be, of someone being perceived as a USAF member because they were wearing the uniform) doesn't have any recourse; so, CAP keeps a regulatory leash on its members just to be safe.

Which only really applies to the USAF uniform, but it carries over to the CAP uniform. IMHO, FWIW, etc.

"He said, she said."

Since the OP has been suspended, and the thread has degenerated int another crap-fest, isn't it about time to click this thing off?

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