NCC Drill Team from a single squadron?

[321EOD]

Is anyone aware of a Drill Team from a single squadron making it all the way to Nationals in the Cadet Competition?

CO-147 has fielded a full drill team from the Squadron for the last 3 years and advanced to Regions in 2008 & 2009, competing against the 2009 NCC champions (Utah) on both occasions.

Criteria: every member of the team must be from the same squadron - no ring in's!

Would like to know: Squadron Name, Region represented, Year of attendance, NCC placing.

Good luck to all the Drill and Color Guard teams all over the country who are preparing for the 2010 season!

[Cecil DP]

Quincy Composite Squadron in Massachusetts made it 3 times in the 60's

[Flying Pig]

Sq. 45 in CAWG did it 3 times in 90-91-92.  We MAY have gone in 89 also.  It was either 89 or 90 we lost at Region.  I was on the team.  2nd place overall all three times.  We placed 1st in several events though.  Innovative Drill and Inspection.  Back then, we were the only team who did our entire routine completely silent.  Pretty cool.  I think just about everyone does it like that now. Being that we were all from on Sq. it was the mile run that got us each time.  We had solid people, but not everyone was sub-6min miles which is what you needed to take first.  I know NY and NJ wings, who we lost to, had a joint National Team.

We trained year round.  After NCC in December, we took January-Feb off and started again in March.  We trained Fri night, Sat and Sun and slept at the Squadron.  Monday night was the regular meeting which we are all still required to participate in.  Not everyone in the Sq was on the drill team which was why Meeting nights were meeting nights only.

That was a wild 3-4 years as a cadet. 

[LtCol Hooligan]

119th Air National Guard Cadet Squadron (NCRND119)- Made it in 1998 and 1999.

[AdAstra]

Los Angeles Cadet Squadron 138 (California Wing, Pacific Region) in 1979.

[SKI304]

As far as I could tell, half of the drill teams at NCC 2009 were squadron teams:

North Carolina Wing - Apex Cadet Squadron - 2nd Place
Texas Wing - Sheldon Cadet Squadron - 5th Place
Ohio Wing - Youngstown ARS Composite Squadron - 6th Place
Missouri Wing - Cass County Composite Squadron - 7th Place

Historically, Puerto Rico and New York have also fielded single squadron teams that have won NCC.

My squadron, Youngstown ARS Composite Squadron (GLR-OH-051), has been competing as a single squadron team since 2002.  The only exception to that was 2005, the year I wasn't involved with the team since I was studying abroad in Italy.  We had four cadets from one other neighboring squadron filling spots on that team, and needless to say, I was not very pleased to find that out.  I have a hardlined rule that my cadets follow, and that is that they cannot recruit members from other squadrons to be on our team, period, no taking the easy way out.  Instead they have to recruit, train, and support their fellow cadets to form a team, and the personal and unit development that has come out of that has been tremendous.  Here's our track record so far (in terms of highest finishes):

2002 - GLR Cadet Competition - 3rd Place
2003 - OHWG Cadet Competition - 2nd Place
2004 - National Cadet Competition - 4th Place
2005 - GLR Cadet Competition - 2nd Place
2006 - OHWG Cadet Competition - 1st Place (had to forfeit region due to backlash from the 2005 season)
2007 - GLR Cadet Competition - 2nd Place
2008 - GLR Cadet Competition - 2nd Place
2009 - National Cadet Competition - 6th Place

Squadron teams are a lot of work, but they are worth it.  Hats off to all of you that put the efforts into building them and keeping them going!  :clap:

[lordmonar]

I can understand why drill teams may be made up of several squadrons.  Getting enough people to field a team for most squadrons would be very difficult.  Getting one that was competitive even more so.

As we have debated before.....I am split over whether this is good or bad.  It is nice that squadrons are large enough and have a good enough program where they can field a large team....on the other hand spreading out the NCC experience to more squadrons through out the wing is also a good thing.

[Spike]

^ For larger wings that is a logistical nightmare.  Working around schedules in a squadron is sometimes hard enough, but add in driving time, jobs and practice requirements....wow.

When I was in Indiana as a kid my Brother was in CAP (I was about 7 at the time) and I remember he was on a drill team with others from Indiana Squadrons.  They did special functions and, as a kid I thought how cool it was that they had rifles and walked in step with each other.  Once they even went to Indianapolis for a function. 

Anyone from Indiana Wing remember this?? It would have been i the 1980's. 

[Dracosbane]

I don't know about that, but I do know that supposedly the INWG Honor Guard & Drill Team is made up of cadets from the entire wing.  I haven't heard anything recently about how that's coming together this year.

[OldGuard]

Sq. 45 in CAWG did it 3 times in 90-91-92

Sounds like you had a great team 

[Flying Pig]

Except for this one loser who kept coming back like a lost puppy dog.

[raivo]

^ For larger wings that is a logistical nightmare.  Working around schedules in a squadron is sometimes hard enough, but add in driving time, jobs and practice requirements....wow.

Florida did this many years ago and put together a team of "the best" from a handful of squadrons around the state. No idea how the logistics worked.

Kind of killed the whole "competition" aspect.

[BillB]

Two or three years ago Florida had color guard composed of cadets from the same Group. They won National CG Comp. All of the cadets came from two Squadrons.

[Flying Pig]

Yeah, but finding 4-6 cadets vs 16-18 cadets from one squadron is a big difference.

[Bayareaflyer 44]

Yup - we were Sweepstakes champs three times in the 80's.  CAWG Squadron 44.  '81 was the Cinderella story - we were from nowhere, and took on the much feared Bronx Group.  Our other two were '86 & '87.  We placed 2nd in '82, 3rd in '83, didn't field a team in '84 (we called it drill team burn out, which I still kind of feel today...), 2nd in '85, and finally 2nd in '89.
We were the last CAWG team to win NCC Drill (excluding of course, color guard).
All done from one squadron with two AMAZINGLY dedicated senior members.  Boy-o-boy, I can look back on it now and say they were good times - but make no mistake, that was a lot of work...

[OldGuard]

Even with a Color Guard it's hard enough to find cadets that will be dedicated to compete.  Flying Pig and I lived at our seniors houses during the month of December to prepare for NCC. Still remember training Christmas night for NCC.


I remember a Maj. Charles Wiest for when I was a cadet 20 years ago, that can't be the same person. 

[Flying Pig]

Sq 64???  Does that mean your silly butt finally rejoined?  You should give Stonewall a holler.  You guys were both in the Old Guard.

[OldGuard]

Thats correct, I made the plunge. When my daughter decided to join, the wife said I had to aswell. Who is Stonewall?

[Flying Pig]

Thats correct, I made the plunge. When my daughter decided to join, the wife said I had to aswell. Who is Stonewall?

I think he was the first female soldier to guard the tomb

[Stonewall]

I think he was the first female soldier to guard the tomb

Sorry, brother.  I got out before the Old Guard went soft.

[OldGuard]

Must have been one of those line company pouges  I knew the first female at the tomb guard. She was a Relief Sergeant and her boyfriend was a private under her command. 

[Flying Pig]

WHatever happened with that about the females guarding the tomb?  She was an MP right?  Was that an abandoned experiment or do they still make an exception for females, considering all the men have to be Infantry?

[OldGuard]

She was an MP and now they allow all MOS's the chance to walk the Tomb.  Where did the standards go? 

[SKI304]

Bump      (set, spike  )

As an update now that the 2010 competition season is over, there were only two single squadron drill teams at NCC this year: the Steel Angels Drill Team from PR-123, Dr. Cesareo Rosa-Nives Cadet Squadron and my cadets, the 051 Drill Team from OH-051, Youngstown ARS Composite Squadron.  It's unfortunate that the percentage dropped, but we saw much more single squadron participation up to NCC, which was refreshing.  In fact, every team we faced at wing and region was a single squadron entry.  At our wing competition alone, three squadrons sent full teams, and I think every one of them had a good time, learned a lot, and are ready to come back next year even stronger.  I honestly wouldn't be surprised if that increased to five squadrons for 2011.  Our model has instituted a drill team cultural change in our wing, and really, that is all that is needed to make these one squadron teams viable.  Focus the team as a vehicle for overall improvement, make it representative and supportive of the real everyday cadet program, and the winning becomes an ancillary benefit.

Hopefully next year we'll see even more squadrons participate in the drill team side of NCC, especially if the revised squadron-friendly changes come about.  For all the squadrons competing already, hang in there, the training benefits far outweigh the decisions of fickle judges.   

[Chappie]

Bill...I had the opportunity to meet and hang out with your cadets/drill team.  They are an awesome group and represented the GLR well.  I know that you are proud of their accomplishments.  Give them my regards. 

[RADIOMAN015]

Bump      (set, spike  )

It's unfortunate that the percentage dropped, but we saw much more single squadron participation up to NCC, which was refreshing.  In fact, every team we faced at wing and region was a single squadron entry.  At our wing competition alone, three squadrons sent full teams, and I think every one of them had a good time, learned a lot, and are ready to come back next year even stronger.  I honestly wouldn't be surprised if that increased to five squadrons for 2011. 

I've got wonder what kind of a "balanced" cadet activities program your squadron has (aerospace education as well as emergency services)   Looking at your squadron's website about the only thing on that website that is updated is about the Drill Team.   Perhaps there's no time to do anything else 

Probably any unit that is going to do this will need  about 15 to 17 cadets (alternates).   It's a difficult task to even form & continue practice for color guard teams.  Frankly, do we schedule all our other programs around when color guards & drill teams are going to practice?    Also in our unit if we can get the same 15 cadets to show up on a consistent weekly basis, that would be a major accomplishment

Our wing has decided to form one wing wide drill team.  We have about 370 cadets in the wing.   Most of the units are in the Eastern portion of the state so that is where the practices will be held.  So it unlikely that the western squadrons will participate just based upon the transit cost & time requirements plus the practice time.

My personal feeling is that units that have color guard or drill teams needs to have a comprehensive schedule for those teams participating in local community events first with events competition not being the primary purpose of the teams.

I might also add that I personally salute each every cadet teams members (as well as their senior member advisors) for their dedication   :clap: in this narrow aspect of the cadet activities program.
RM       

[SKI304]

Bump      (set, spike  )

It's unfortunate that the percentage dropped, but we saw much more single squadron participation up to NCC, which was refreshing.  In fact, every team we faced at wing and region was a single squadron entry.  At our wing competition alone, three squadrons sent full teams, and I think every one of them had a good time, learned a lot, and are ready to come back next year even stronger.  I honestly wouldn't be surprised if that increased to five squadrons for 2011. 

I've got wonder what kind of a "balanced" cadet activities program your squadron has (aerospace education as well as emergency services)   Looking at your squadron's website about the only thing on that website that is updated is about the Drill Team.   Perhaps there's no time to do anything else 

Probably any unit that is going to do this will need  about 15 to 17 cadets (alternates).   It's a difficult task to even form & continue practice for color guard teams.  Frankly, do we schedule all our other programs around when color guards & drill teams are going to practice?    Also in our unit if we can get the same 15 cadets to show up on a consistent weekly basis, that would be a major accomplishment

Our wing has decided to form one wing wide drill team.  We have about 370 cadets in the wing.   Most of the units are in the Eastern portion of the state so that is where the practices will be held.  So it unlikely that the western squadrons will participate just based upon the transit cost & time requirements plus the practice time.

My personal feeling is that units that have color guard or drill teams needs to have a comprehensive schedule for those teams participating in local community events first with events competition not being the primary purpose of the teams.

I might also add that I personally salute each every cadet teams members (as well as their senior member advisors) for their dedication   :clap: in this narrow aspect of the cadet activities program.
RM     

Okay, I do admit that I've been lazy on updating my squadron's website, but I don't see how the only updated stuff is about Drill Team, and Drill Team is not the only thing we do if that is what you are insinuating.  If you don't need the validation of that, skip the following paragraph, if so, hopefully this will quell your suspicions:

So far in 2010 we've done 32 Cadet O-Flights (Powered and Glider - including driving cadets all around the wing to do so), 2 military O-rides, conducted aerospace field trips, won 3rd Place in our Wing Color Guard Competition, hosted our Wing Encampment,  responded to two actual missions, have sent or are sending cadets to four separate wing encampments, participated in CAC, grown by 23 cadets & 10 seniors, progressed steadily in senior member professional development, processed 12 Wright Brothers, 1 Mitchell, and many, many individual promotions.  Currently we are participating in numerous NCSA's, finishing a Model Rocketry Class, and training three additional Ground Teams, our CyberPatriot Team, and launching an entire AirOps side of the unit.  On top of that we have 12 more cadet applications getting approved, so with what will soon be a 90 cadet squadron, we are able to put some depth in our offerings.  What we are not is a one trick pony.

You are right, balance is key.  If you use Drill Team and even Color Guard for the sole purpose of competing, it will overtake all else and ruin a unit.  On the other hand, if it is used as a tool to develop and train the cadet corps, it becomes a natural extension of the regular program.  Going into my 10th season doing this, I think we have found that balance.  Number one is that I strictly limit the intense practice season to a few months, anything more drains resources and burns out cadets.  This leaves me plenty of time the rest of the year to conduct ES training and run weekend activities for the whole unit.  Since Drill Team encompasses all the core aspects of the cadet program, they're still getting the full benefit of the program when they train.  Second, every member of the team is expected to give back what they have learned, either through staff service or peer mentorship, and we hold them to it.  Third, they can only use our squadron's cadets to compose the team.  This forces them to recruit and train their peers to their own level.  We've got a motto that sums it up, "You're only as good as the people next to you."  I believe that is the intent of the whole NCC Program.  We have a venue with tangible, measurable goals to develop and test the effectiveness of our local cadet program.

As I said before, all of that was proven possible and replicable at OHWG's most recent Cadet Competition.  We had another large squadron and an upcoming smaller squadron send their own teams as well.  Both of them, like us, did it as a way of training and developing their cadets.  Winning was not the focus - training was.  At the end, 42 cadets went home ready to make their units better and come back next year to once again test their mettle.

Unfortunately many units get bogged down in the negatives required to win and loose sight of what the NCC Program can do for their units if they tried.  Stay positive.  The only real expenses currently required are wing/region entry fees, volleyball kneepads, and shoulder cords (which we eliminated in our wing as a cost saving measure.)  Fancy PT uniforms, warmups, jackets, etc. don't make you any more competitive.  We even went to NCC this year in our everyday uniforms, and the comments were not all that different from when we tried doing brand new uniforms.  So even new uniforms aren't necessary.  Everything else, except Innovative Drill and to some extent Volleyball, is just a reflection of a good local cadet program.  Focus on the overall training and how it fits into the big picture - the rest will take care of itself.

Many of the challenges preventing Drill Team participation are the same ones facing the Cadet Program in general: recruiting, motivation, worthwhile training, retention.  Even though we are a decent sized unit, we don't just do Drill Team because of our size - we are our size because of Drill Team.  When we started it (back when you needed 16 cadets) we we only had twenty some cadets, today, well  I don't want to repeat numbers, but suffice to day that increase in membership is enough to convince me of NCC's value. 

Of course as a Drill Team believer, I might seem biased, but I strongly encourage those who can to give Drill Team some serious thought.   Just frame it with this question, what can a focus on training in the core competencies of the Cadet Program do for my unit?  Good Luck!

[SKI304]

Bill...I had the opportunity to meet and hang out with your cadets/drill team.  They are an awesome group and represented the GLR well.  I know that you are proud of their accomplishments.  Give them my regards.

Thank you Sir!  Judging by the username, I'm assuming you were one of the Chaplains, just not sure of which flavor (Drill Team or Color Guard).  Either way, I hope you guys had fun with our Cupid Shuffle warmup for the Mile!  I'll pass on the regards.

[Chappie]

Bill...I had the opportunity to meet and hang out with your cadets/drill team.  They are an awesome group and represented the GLR well.  I know that you are proud of their accomplishments.  Give them my regards.

Thank you Sir!  Judging by the username, I'm assuming you were one of the Chaplains, just not sure of which flavor (Drill Team or Color Guard).  Either way, I hope you guys had fun with our Cupid Shuffle warmup for the Mile!  I'll pass on the regards.

Yes...I was the other guy -- assigned to the Color Guard   However, I do have pictures (which are posted on Facebook on the PCR Chaplain Corps group page) of the other chaplain performing the Cupid Shuffle with the drill team.  It was fun.  And just remember when you start feeling stressed...."wooosah"

[TeamBronx]

I escorted the Massachusetts Wing's Quincy Cadet Squadron to the 1977 National Cadet Competition.  That was there second time there.  Teams in the seventies had twenty-one cadets:  18 marching cadets, two alternates, and a team commander.    Extremely difficult to get from one squadron, but Quincy did it.  The '77 Quincy team was the first team to carry the light blue Northeast Region guidon.

In 1995, I helped train the Florida Wing's Miami Springs Optimist Cadet Squadron team which placed third in the NCC drill competition.  All of the cadets came from that squadron.  It was a sixteen cadet team:  12 marching, 3 alternates, and the team commander.  I was always impressed that the cadets and seniors in the squadron annually chose what direction their extra training would take.  After placing third in '95, they spent '96 working with  communications as their focus.  They did not do any NCC prep that year.  In '97, they worked on competition again and placed 2nd at National.

During the Bronx Group Drill Team's run of first and second place showings in the eighties and nineties, only the 1980 team was composed entirely of Bronx Group cadets.  After the wing competition  we often picked up two or three cadets from other groups in NYC.  I think it was in 1986 or 1988 that two New Jersey cadets marched at national as alternates on the Bronx Group/Northeast Region team.  Those two then helped develop the New Jersey Wing's Dragon Drill Team which won an equal number of national championships. 

[Bluelakes 13]

Well said Bill!  Can't really add anything more.

[tinstar]

I did drill team in the 1990's.  Our team went to nationals 4 times.  In all the time I did it we never had all of our cadets come from a single squadron.  In fact our squadron usually only had about ten cadets at any time. It's great if you can get all the cadets to come from one squadron but in our case it would have never worked and, I for one, am glad.  I met cadets from all over the wing because of drill team.

I agree with the other comments about drill team's true purpose.  The most important thing you get out of drill team, win or lose, is ambassadors for the cadet program. 

[Anavah_42]

I realize this thread was started a few years ago, but I thought that this information relevant in case anyone even looks at this thread... I am the C/First Sergeant at RMR-CO-147 as of 4-5-11. We are sending a color guard, plus an alternate, to the Rockie Mountain Region competition on the 15-16 of April(which I am on), and a drill team, plus another alternate as well, to the Nation Cadet Competition in Dayton Ohio this June. All members from both teams are from our, CO-147, squadron. We are proud to have these teams go and represent RMR and CO Wing, but we still have a long road ahead of us. The reason our drill team is going to nationals is because our competitors, 2009-2010 NCC champions of Utah Wing, are not sending a drill team to Regionals. I'm not sure how many times in CAP there have been both a color guard and drill team from one squadron moving on past wing compition and hopefully(big hopefully) all going to Nationals... we'll see.

[Bluelakes 13]

Utah is not going to try to 3-peat?  Does anyone know what happened?