Dual Cool. Which one?

[Stonewall]

I'm putting together a new set of BDUs. My current set has jump wings over GTM badge.

For the new set I wanted to include observer wings, but over which badge?  Jump or GTM?

Thoughts?

FWIW I used to own 3 sets and they went like this:

Airborne over GTM
Observer over GTM
Observer over Airborne

Note: the badges in the pics are not seen down so I already know they are crooked for now.

[ol'fido]

I would go with Observer wings over Airborne. I like the dichotomy of CAP and Military.

[Eclipse]

Go with CAP. the jump wings don't tell CAP people what you can do.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

I mix them on mine, but they are Velcro... But I keep either CIB and GTM, or CIB and EMT... But I don't do AASLT and GTM, or GTM and EMT, idk why, I just don't. It looks better I think with a wider one over a smaller one.

[Eclipse]

Velcro?

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Yeah, it is nice to be able to take them off for laundering. They last a lot longer, and the white doesn't turn blue... Lots of reasons to go Velcro. Just be sure it is the industrial strength, the regular junk will have you loosing them by the end of the day.

[Stonewall]

I tend to agree with you, Eclipse.

Velcro?

Yeah, aformersoldiersayswut?

[Stonewall]

Yeah, it is nice to be able to take them off for laundering. They last a lot longer, and the white doesn't turn blue... Lots of reasons to go Velcro. Just be sure it is the industrial strength, the regular junk will have you loosing them by the end of the day.

Him, yeah dude, that is sort of not authorized.

I have been wearing a civil air patrol uniform for 25 years, that is 25 years of white on blue insignia. I have never had any of the white on the blue start to fade or turn blue. The only thing that has ever happened to me like that is the white on the badges turning brown from the iron being set too hot.

I think you should read think the Velcro situation, because it is not authorized and does not set a great example for the cadets.

[LGM30GMCC]

I know your pain. I have Spings, Jump Wings, Pilot, Observer, and GBD to wear above my ribbons  or similar location(my missile badge sits proudly on the pocket. In blue and white it REALLY stands out)

I actually agree with eclipse on this one. I prefer to wear Observer/GBD on my BDUs for uniforms I'm going to use in ES. My reasoning is that it helps with a wee bit of credibility when talking about both sides of the house to either side of the house for ES.

For my other set I usually choose two of the ones I didn't use on my ES set. (Though I stay away from spings. I think they are the second ugliest badge in the USAF, and I'm not a 13S anymore anyway!)

For blues I generally go for a different combo on my shirt than my jacket. (I don't really have any room left on my jacket and I only wear my CAP ribbons. It'd be nice if I could grow a little still. :-p)

[manfredvonrichthofen]

I tend to agree with you, Eclipse.

Velcro?

Yeah, aformersoldiersayswut?

Yeah, and aformersoldiersaysheckyeah...

I did it on my BDUs before we got ACUs as well.

I asked knowledge about it a few years back, and got an ok so long as they can still be placed in the correct spots, and Velcro doesn't protrude from the sides of the badge. All of my stuff is Velcro... Besides, we have argued this issue before, I got knowledgebase approval, I don't want to break out a dead horse gif 

[NIN]

Go with CAP. the jump wings don't tell CAP people what you can do.

Stonewall doesn't need his uniform to tell CAP people what he can do.  He just does it.

[ol'fido]

What I'd really like to see is a different GT badge. When it first came out, I really liked the fact that GT members got some recognition. Even so, I was never thrilled with the way it looked. I believe that Ground Team is as much an attitude as a qualification, but still if you are going to have a badge, have one that makes sense. I would like to see a badge that more reflects the attitude. I get the circle, triangle, and GT letters, but I have never been sure of the whats around it. It looks like it was vaguely modeled on Air Assault wings, but with ivy or some leafy looking plant in that shape. Ivy and the like is a traditional element in military cap badges but not so much in the Air Force and definitely not CAP. The one Stonewall posted above kink of looks like the beret badge of the Royal Marines. Good company, but they ain't us and we're not them. I did a Google search for "search and rescue logos" and there were a lot of neat badges but nothing that "popped" or looked like it would work for CAP.

[ol'fido]

Go with CAP. the jump wings don't tell CAP people what you can do.

Stonewall doesn't need his uniform to tell CAP people what he can do.  He just does it.

:clap: :clap:

[LGM30GMCC]

It looks like it was vaguely modeled on Air Assault wings, but with ivy or some leafy looking plant in that shape. Ivy and the like is a traditional element in military cap badges but not so much in the Air Force and definitely not CAP.

A wreath around a central design is precisely what the USAF uses these days. Check out page 42 of Airman: The Book 2011 Found Here

It's a little outdated graphic (Still has the old space badge, doesn't have the Missile with Ops Designator (which has a wreath) and doesn't have the cyber operations badge) but shows that at least 25 AF badges have the wreath on them.

[Stonewall]

I asked knowledge about it a few years back, and got an ok so long as they can still be placed in the correct spots, and Velcro doesn't protrude from the sides of the badge. All of my stuff is Velcro... Besides, we have argued this issue before, I got knowledgebase approval, I don't want to break out a dead horse gif 

Grrr. I think I remember that conversation . [darn], I wish they hadn't given the green light for the Velcro, I don't think it looks consistent with the standards. But if its authorized, it's authorized.

[Eclipse]

The KB can't give the green light to anything, they can only quote existing regulations.

Look around the room next time you are with other members wearing CAP uniformm, no one else
will be using velcro.  You won't find a single reference to velcro in regards to field uniforms in 39-1 or
any ICL.

Velcro has no place on the BDU's or field uniform.  No one changes any of the insignias on the uniform
often enough to warrant it, nor are any of the insignias made of leather or plastic.  There is no need to
"sanitize" your insignia as the likelihood of capture by Seas Cadets or the CGAux is very low, and they
prescribe to the Lake Geneva (WI) accords which prohibits the abuse of Prisoners of Starbucks.

Properly cared for, the cloth badges will not run or turn the thread blue.

[NIN]

Velcro has no place on the BDU's or field uniform.  No one changes any of the insignias on the uniform
often enough to warrant it, nor are any of the insignias made of leather or plastic.  There is no need to
"sanitize" your insignia as the likelihood of capture by Seas Cadets or the CGAux is very low, and they
prescribe to the Lake Geneva (WI) accords which prohibits the abuse of Prisoners of Starbucks.

Properly cared for, the cloth badges will not run or turn the thread blue.

I shot liquid out my nose regarding the Lake Geneva Accords.

But Bob basically hits it on the nose. You don't need velcro insignia.

Now, I will say I made up a set of BDUs once with velcro'd pockets.  Biggest.Waste.of.Time.Evah!  I don't use any of those pockets anyway. The next set I just snipped the buttons off and sewed the pocket flaps down. Problem solved.

But I never even considered velro'ing the insignia.

[Brad]

I'd go with GT insignia too, if for nothing else on the off chance that someone doesn't look closely enough at your jump wings and think's you're a basic rated Incident Commander.

[ol'fido]

It looks like it was vaguely modeled on Air Assault wings, but with ivy or some leafy looking plant in that shape. Ivy and the like is a traditional element in military cap badges but not so much in the Air Force and definitely not CAP.

A wreath around a central design is precisely what the USAF uses these days. Check out page 42 of Airman: The Book 2011 Found Here

It's a little outdated graphic (Still has the old space badge, doesn't have the Missile with Ops Designator (which has a wreath) and doesn't have the cyber operations badge) but shows that at least 25 AF badges have the wreath on them.

You are correct in that I had forgotten the occupational badges, but the original GT  badges didn't have the consistent shape that those do. At least not with the one shown which looks more round. I would like to see a better looking badge on the whole.

[Pylon]

Wings over wings (Observer over Lead Sleds)!

[NIN]

Wings over wings (Observer over Lead Sleds)!

This, BTW, is my preference.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

The KB can't give the green light to anything, they can only quote existing regulations.

Look around the room next time you are with other members wearing CAP uniformm, no one else
will be using velcro.  You won't find a single reference to velcro in regards to field uniforms in 39-1 or
any ICL.

I have seen about six in one day on SAREX, it was a good one too.

Velcro has no place on the BDU's or field uniform.  No one changes any of the insignias on the uniform
often enough to warrant it, nor are any of the insignias made of leather or plastic.  There is no need to
"sanitize" your insignia as the likelihood of capture by Seas Cadets or the CGAux is very low, and they
prescribe to the Lake Geneva (WI) accords which prohibits the abuse of Prisoners of Starbucks.

Properly cared for, the cloth badges will not run or turn the thread blue.

I have had the threads turn blue before. The first washing, I had a blue pip just a little lighter than the field around it.

Now the sensitization thing is awesome. I think you have too much free time to think this stuff up lol.

[flyboy53]

Wings over wings (Observer over Lead Sleds)!

I would go with Observer wings over Airborne. I like the dichotomy of CAP and Military.

Me too!

I wear observer over USAF Security Forces qualification badge (yes, I wear the old one that I was issued)

[BuckeyeDEJ]

I'd suggest the jump wings. Especially if you want street cred with cadets. It also shows a level of diligence and dedication. Ain't a bad thing.

[Stonewall]

Not an earth shattering decision to make, but for some reason I'm crossed.

Like what Buckeye said, "street cred" with cadets is a factor here, to me.  As a cadet, when someone walked in with some sort of "scare badge" like jump wings or air assault, or even Navy pilot wings, we were instantly inspired.  Obviously, as an adult, and having earned such wings, I know that they're simply a piece of medal that cost $4.50 and put holes in my shirt.  Also, I don't think any of the cadets at my squadron have taken notice of my uniform.  Times have changed, or perhaps our cadets are just different.

Ironically, it took me much longer and more attention to detail, follow up, and persistence, to earn the Master GTM badge than it did to earn jump wings.  And observer was no different.  It took 2 weeks of ground training with a lot of PT, followed by a week of jumping from planes.  Really, pretty easy.

I think I'm leaning more towards OBS over GTM.  If I get a third set of BDUs one day I'll go with OBS over ABN.

[BuckeyeDEJ]

Stonewall makes an interesting point, in that to him, the GTM badge was more work than the jump wings.

In the military, seems to me, you're paid to do what you do, and it's your job, and it's regimented, arranged and scheduled. So getting jump wings may not seem like much, compared to the hoops you might jump through and the waiting you might do to get a GTM badge.

However, I would say that earning the jump wings took a level of dedication that getting a GTM badge doesn't. You don't volunteer to get jump wings in the same way you would a GTM badge or any other rating in CAP. You can walk away from CAP for a couple of months and come back and finish qualifying, all on your own time; you can't do that in the armed forces. Everything in CAP is an option, where, say, in the Army, once you volunteer and sign on the dotted line, you don't get to volunteer anymore — your butt belongs to Uncle Sam. Yours is not to reason why.

You can choose what you want, but I think your Real Military service speaks more, especially to the people you may care to influence within CAP's ranks, than the GTM. Speaking, of course, as someone who wears the wings and GTM, but whose only connection to jump wings is through his dad (an Airborne ranger, back when they were shootin' in Korea).

[Майор Хаткевич]

I'm mixed on it, so I'd say do what feels right. If I see the badge, it tells me you're prior service and have cool stories to share. If I don't see it, it will probably come up in conversation at some point. Most cadets these days do not know the military badges that well, so they may ask if they are aware enough and not familiar, but just being prior service will cue them into asking you questions.

[Slim]

I say forget the regs and go for the tower of power.




/sarcasm

[RogueLeader]

However, I would say that earning the jump wings took a level of dedication that getting a GTM badge doesn't. You don't volunteer to get jump wings in the same way you would a GTM badge or any other rating in CAP. You can walk away from CAP for a couple of months and come back and finish qualifying, all on your own time; you can't do that in the armed forces. Everything in CAP is an option, where, say, in the Army, once you volunteer and sign on the dotted line, you don't get to volunteer anymore — your butt belongs to Uncle Sam. Yours is not to reason why.

Being in the Army, I had the option to volunteer to go to jump school.  I could NOT be ordered to go.  In my unit, I was HIGHLY encouraged to volunteer to go.  I absolutely refused.  I got put on some not so fun details for my refusal, but they can NOT take any adverse actions against me.  I could have volunteered then close out my jump log, but thats not right.

So yes, you can volunteer in the Army.

[Stonewall]

I absolutely refused.

Boggles my mind.

[RogueLeader]

I absolutely refused.

Boggles my mind.

Turns out that it didn't matter in the long run, as I was PEB'd out. 

You can't force someone to volunteer for a billet that's not part of their MOS.  If you want to jump out of aircraft, fine.  That doesn't bother me one bit.  The fact that I don't shouldn't bother you.

[Stonewall]

I absolutely refused.

Boggles my mind.

Turns out that it didn't matter in the long run, as I was PEB'd out. 

You can't force someone to volunteer for a billet that's not part of their MOS.  If you want to jump out of aircraft, fine.  That doesn't bother me one bit.  The fact that I don't shouldn't bother you.

I'm aware that you can't force someone to do what they don't want to do.  I'm just surprised that you absolutely refused.  Your decision.  Not judging, just surprised.

[Rick-DEL]

I would go with Observer wings over Airborne. I like the dichotomy of CAP and Military.

I agree.

[Luis R. Ramos]

I do not know how some people can argue that "Velcro is not authorized" to hold insignias in place in the BDU uniform. Very easily I can also make the claim that since it is not mentioned in the appropriate regulations, it is not unauthorized. If Velcro is not unauthorized, therefore, I can use it.

I used Velcro for the Wing patches in the coats with no problems. You cut it around the patch, and no one knows you are wearing. If on the other hand, you wear it as I have seen on military uniforms, it is not pretty and everyone knows you use it. In the case of the Wings and GT badges, a square or rectangular patch of Velcro the same size, and careful application of the insignia on it, is not a give away. I never had any problem as to a seat belt "ripping" my patch off.

Now, I do not use it since these patches are not worn on the coats used with the Blues.

As to "sanitize," well, we do not need to "sanitize" these uniforms for the reason the military do, but there are times I wear those coats when in civies. If CAP regs, and practice is not to use uniform items when not going to an activity, then I had to "sanitize" my coat. Right?  :angel:

Flyer

[68w20]

I do not know how some people can argue that "Velcro is not authorized" to hold insignias in place in the BDU uniform. Very easily I can also make the claim that since it is not mentioned in the appropriate regulations, it is not unauthorized. If Velcro is not unauthorized, therefore, I can use it.

Seriously? CAPM 39-1 Ch 1, Para 1-1 says...

COMPLIANCE WITH
THIS PUBLICATION IS MANDATORY. Any variation from this publication is not authorized.
Items not listed in this publication are not authorized for wear.

[NIN]

^^ That should just about cover the flyby..

[Brad]

I do not know how some people can argue that "Velcro is not authorized" to hold insignias in place in the BDU uniform. Very easily I can also make the claim that since it is not mentioned in the appropriate regulations, it is not unauthorized. If Velcro is not unauthorized, therefore, I can use it.

Seriously? CAPM 39-1 Ch 1, Para 1-1 says...

COMPLIANCE WITH
THIS PUBLICATION IS MANDATORY. Any variation from this publication is not authorized.
Items not listed in this publication are not authorized for wear.

I agree with you, 68w10, but just to play Devil's Advocate I offer that, in the same vein as the velcro suggested on BDUs, neither velcro used to hold patches on flightsuits or clutchbacks for pin-on devices are mentioned in CAPR 39-1, and yet we all use them.

Unless you're Ned Lee, that guy just holds his stuff on with the power of his mind.

[NIN]

Unless you're Ned Lee, that guy just holds his stuff on with the power of his mind.

39-1 says insignia will be sewn, not held on with any Jedi Mind Trick action. So if Ned really does that, he, too, would be in violation of 39-1.

[Brad]

39-1 says insignia will be sewn...

May have missed it, but where? I did a PDF search for "sew" and "sewn" and the only thing I find is the bit about the USAF inspection tag on approved garments.

[NIN]

39-1 says insignia will be sewn...

May have missed it, but where? I did a PDF search for "sew" and "sewn" and the only thing I find is the bit about the USAF inspection tag on approved garments.

Aww, you're gonna make me look this up?  <Jedi Mind trick wave>

"This isn't the manual you're looking for.."

You make a good point: nowhere in that manual does it specify the actual method for attaching. It says where it will be, what it will be composed of, and that you should not have raw edges showing, but it does not go into detail as to the HOW of attachment.

Then again, there are probably dozens of things like that in the manual where they're not going to go into great gory graphic detail as to the exact/precise whys and wherefores.  (hemming comes to mind).

ETA: I am reminded, however, that the location of the chow hall on the Windward Side of Gitmo is not listed in the Rifle Security Company's manual, yet everybody seems to get three squares a day.

[ol'fido]

I have never had a name tape or patch where the colors bled into places they shouldn't in 35 plus years in CAP or in 4 years on AD. I have seen all the tricks with sewing and Velcro and considered several but in the end they weren't worth the trouble. I kind of like having my patches look like they've got some"seniority" as long as they're not unserviceable

[johnnyb47]

http://capnhq.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1257/kw/velcro/session/L3RpbWUvMTM2MTMwOTUxMy9zaWQveTVrak1namw%3D
*updated today*

Who says the ramblings of you CAPTalkers isn't taken seriously?

Did a search for Velcro in KB and both results were updated this afternoon.

[Stonewall]

I searched for 'Velcro" and did not find where the KB says it's okay to Velcro patches/insignia to BDUs in lieu of sewing them.

[lordmonar]

Okay.......to throw a monkey wrench into the arugment.   AFI 36-2903 Para 5.1.2.2. says the edges of the badge will be folded in and sewn down.

Now I know......"we are not the Air Force".......but come on, don't Belcro your patches and badges on your BDUs.

[J2H]

My first badge is the Force Protection Craftsman function badge.  The other depends on what I get into.

[Stonewall]

I say forget the regs and go for the tower of power.

What do you mean?

[NIN]

God, the Tower of Power just gets me all fluttery....

[Eclipse]

I say forget the regs and go for the tower of power.

What do you mean?

This could well be used as a test for cadets, first, knowing what's wrong, second having the stones to challenge Stonewall on it.

[Stonewall]

That was one of those "lets play with the sewing machine moments" like 10 years ago.

[J2H]

I need to research the uniform regs

[NIN]

See, I have a pic of Stonewall on the wall in my house, for crying out loud.

[Stonewall]

See, I have a pic of Stonewall on the wall in my house, for crying out loud.

Unfortunately it's in the bathroom if I'm not mistaken.

[NIN]

[vento]

That stare is a bit intimidating, especially when one is trying to pee. 

[RogueLeader]

Like having a random urinalysis every time you go. 

[Eclipse]

Yes, I'd be freaked out having Justin Bieber watch me go to the bathroom as well...

What the heck?

[SarDragon]

Unless you're Ned Lee, that guy just holds his stuff on with the power of his mind.

39-1 says insignia will be sewn, not held on with any Jedi Mind Trick action. So if Ned really does that, he, too, would be in violation of 39-1.

Where? I haven't been able to find it. Is there some double secret section I don't know about?

Just looked - the word sew appears exactly three times in the most recent 39-1.

Pg 10: Each uniform item must have this label sewn or stamped on permanently: "USAF CERTIFICATE NO _______.

Pg 74: 1. CAP Crest: Attached or sewn to the breast pocket or same relative position.

Pg 97: CAP senior members who hold NCO and airmen grades may wear cloth chevrons sewn on the sleeve or gray epaulet sleeves with embroidered chevrons.

Placement is much discussed , but attachment method is not. I suppose that stitching is implied, but there's nothing specific.

ETA: OK, shoot me later. I answered before I read to the end of the thread.

I do have a BBDU shirt where I can Velcro the name tag. That way, I can be Major Bowles most of the time, or, on occasions where a sense of humour abounds, I can be Major Malfunction.

[NIN]

Yes, I'd be freaked out having Justin Bieber watch me go to the bathroom as well...

What the heck?

Thats a Justin Beiber toothbrush that was a gag Christmas gift last year from my ex-girlfriend. I left it at the house buried in a bathroom cabinet when I moved out and it came back hidden in a bag of clothes of mine she found.   I don't have the heart to throw it out, as I really want to use it as a gag gift for something else.

As to ol' Stonewall there, yeah, the first time I went to use that bathroom after hanging the pic, it was like Stonewall was the urinalysis NCOIC... Weirder than I expected it would be.

[Luis R. Ramos]

68-

39-1 does not say that we shall wear briefs under our trousers, but I will bet that 99.99999% of our members do.

39-1 only concern is about what is worn, visible, not on attachment methods. The way I described Velcro is an attachment method and not visible.

Flyer

[Eclipse]

39-1 does not say that we shall wear briefs under our trousers, but I will bet that 99.99999% of our members do.

Yes, it does.

39-1 only concern is about what is worn, visible, not on attachment methods. The way I described Velcro is an attachment method and not visible.

Guaranteed it is. You can't add 1/4" of pile under an insignia which is supposed to be sewn direct and flat and not have it look different.

[Luis R. Ramos]

Ok, take that back. Rather I will modify it.

The argument over whether to use Velcro or sew it or pin it is rather like saying wear boxer or other style of underwear. 39-1 does not state which style to wear!

Flyer

[RogueLeader]

39-1 does not say that we shall wear briefs under our trousers, but I will bet that 99.99999% of our members do.

Yes, it does.

No, it states "appropriate" undergarments are mandatory.

[Eclipse]

Actually, it depends on whether we are talking male or female uniforms.  Female uniforms have a specification in several places.

But the general indication is going "commando" is verboten.

There's no such leeway with Velcro on BDU's, which I'm sorry, is unnecessary and somewhat of an affectation.  It also requires
you do to twice the sewing, and if an insignia is missing, leaves a nice, ugle patch of 1-side of Velcro in its place (seen that).

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I have never used Velcro for BDU's, and have never had a problem with the blue/white bleeding together.

I use Velcro on my blue flight suit, and that's simply because the leather nameplate attaches with it, so I have my other patches Velcro'd for consistency.  I wear the navy-blue background railway tracks sewn on.

I also have Velcro for my black A-2.  If I want to go somewhere for an "extended period beyond 30 minutes" after a meeting, all I have to do is take the CAP shield and leather nameplate off and hey presto, civilian jacket.

[Stonewall]

There's no such leeway with Velcro on BDU's, which I'm sorry, is unnecessary and somewhat of an affectation.  It also requires
you do to twice the sewing, and if an insignia is missing, leaves a nice, ugle patch of 1-side of Velcro in its place (seen that).

At the end of the day, this is the answer.  If you're putting Velcro on your BDUs, you're doing so to be the "cool guy" and you're wrong.  If your blue cloth is bleeding onto the white embroidery, then you're doing something wrong.  Like I said, I've been in CAP 25 years and have NEVER had that happen to me, nor have I ever seen it happen to anyone else.  I think you're just looking for excuses to do use Velcro, plain and simple, it's silly.

The KB can tell you it's okay, but if there is a lack of guidance in 39-1 as far as Velcro, then it simply should not be assumed that it's cool to affix patches/insignia to BDUs via Velcro.  It's silly, unnecessary, and not cool.  /topic

[Ned]

Based on this thread, I am confident that the NUC is aware of the issue and will issue clear guidance one way or another concerning Velcro (tm reg) attachment of insignia, badges, and devices to duty uniforms in the 39-1 revision.

Which is nearing completion.

Till then, feel free to argue, but always follow your command guidance.

[Luis R. Ramos]

Despite what I said about Velcro, I have never used it on BDUs, only on the coats when these used to use the wing patch. Now that it is not worn, I see no need for the Velcro on these coats...

I believe there is no need on Velcro on the BDUs as there is no need to "sanitize" this uniform. There is no need to wear BDUs as a civilian unless you are a hunter.

And I have worn the BDUs for 12 years, with no bleeding of blue into white of the insignias. The white may have faded slightly, but no bleeding...

Flyer

[Hawk200]

I'm going to go back to the original post question, and put my vote in for observer wings/jump wings. Both aeronautically related badges. Put them on your flightsuit nameplate, too.

[Stonewall]

Put them on your flightsuit nameplate, too.

That goes without saying 

[Rick-DEL]

I'm going to go back to the original post question, and put my vote in for observer wings/jump wings.

I concur

[huey]

Wings over wings (Observer over Lead Sleds)!

I would go with Observer wings over Airborne. I like the dichotomy of CAP and Military.

Me too!

I wear observer over USAF Security Forces qualification badge (yes, I wear the old one that I was issued)

I wear the O wings over the Army Aviator wings, hope that's okay! (Sorry i'm not qualified for the GT)

[AC]

I'd go with the Observer wings over the jump wings. I did not pay $4.50 for a set of jump wings, I earned them! Because of that, and over 250 jumps, including HALO jumps from over 30,000 feet, (good thing I did not get a HALO badge, they were not invented when I got my wings), I am now 100% service connected disabled. I have a hard time keeping up with cadets, but I try.

There must be a reason CAP authorizes military aviation badges!

I do put my CAP pilot wings over my jump wings, because in the military, that's how it's done.

Huey, I think what we do now should take precedence!

[MIKE]

US Military Aviation Badge (Awarded in writing by competent authority.) centered 1/2 inch above the pocket or ribbons on the left breast. CAP aviation badges are worn 1/2 inch above military badges.

[AC]

See, CAP does it the right way. Why are military ribbons worn above CAP ribbons?

[AC]

 Are they talking about military badges (I remember when occupational badges came out, we couldn't tell if they were jumpers or not), or military aviation badges?

ETA: Jumping was our occupation, though. I guess badges are badges! But we called them wings!

[Duke Dillio]

The parachutist badge is listed as an aeronautical rating in the AFI's.  That's why it isn't listed specifically in CAPM 39-1 but the Air Assault badge is.

[GroundHawg]

The parachutist badge is listed as an aeronautical rating in the AFI's.  That's why it isn't listed specifically in CAPM 39-1 but the Air Assault badge is.

This has been changed. They are no longer considered an aeronautical badge, but do take precedence over all other non-aeronautical badges.

[GroundHawg]

I'd go with the Observer wings over the jump wings. I did not pay $4.50 for a set of jump wings, I earned them! Because of that, and over 250 jumps, including HALO jumps from over 30,000 feet, (good thing I did not get a HALO badge, they were not invented when I got my wings), I am now 100% service connected disabled. I have a hard time keeping up with cadets, but I try.

There must be a reason CAP authorizes military aviation badges!

I do put my CAP pilot wings over my jump wings, because in the military, that's how it's done.

Huey, I think what we do now should take precedence!

If you had FF/MFF qualifications prior to the badge approval in 1998, submit a DD215 and have them added. AFI 11-402 states " 7. Personnel who obtain MFF qualifications prior to March 1998 are authorized to wear the MFF badges without submitting an application."

[AC]

Well, that was way back in 1967 when I became qualified. Jumpers I know now, on active duty and recently retired, wear both. Where would I wear them anyway? CAP would have a reg about them too.

[GroundHawg]

Well, that was way back in 1967 when I became qualified. Jumpers I know now, on active duty and recently retired, wear both. Where would I wear them anyway? CAP would have a reg about them too.

They would be worn below your Master Airborne Wings, or in lieu of them if you choose to wear your Observer wings. MFF wings in white on ultramarine.... talk about street cred!

[AC]

They would be worn below your Master Airborne Wings, or in lieu of them if you choose to wear your Observer wings. MFF wings in white on ultramarine.... talk about street cred!
[/quote]

My CAP wings are pilot wings. See, in CAP, there is a problem even identifying the differences! (I know, the pic doesn't show enough detail). I'm sure CAP'ers would have a problem identifying MFF wings. Master Blaster I like better, and I'm used to them.

[NIN]

They would be worn below your Master Airborne Wings, or in lieu of them if you choose to wear your Observer wings. MFF wings in white on ultramarine.... talk about street cred!

I dunno, Master Blasters say "Street Cred" to me all on their own.

MFF is a different kettle of fish, and while certainly pre-supposing a certain level of bad-assery, isn't quite the same thing.  (And in this case, considering that AC's MFF qual predates modern equipment to the point where he was jumping B4s and bellywarts with, at best, a Paracommander, that is even more bad-assery than the badge would *ever* convey to the uninitiated)

The former CG of the Army Cadet Corps used to refer to me as "his Master Blaster" because I'm the only guy in the organization wearing our master jump wings (by a gigantic factor).  However, my 1100 jumps with modern sport gear != a dude with 200 MFF jumps from back when "freefall" was a fairly new concept.

[AC]

I'm kind of sorry for hijacking this thread, but memories are coming back. When I was on the Air Commando Parachute Demonstration Team, I jumped a LoPo 7-TU, when the rest of the guys jumped Paracommanders. My chute was black and white diamonds compared to their red, white and blue chutes. I really stood out on the team! I liked that!

However, because stand-ups were the name of the game, they would land softer than I did, and I did incur some injuries! That's why arthritis set in, and artificial knees were installed later in life.

[GroundHawg]

However, because stand-ups were the name of the game, they would land softer than I did, and I did incur some injuries! That's why arthritis set in, and artificial knees were installed later in life.

After 10 years on jump status, Im going to be in the same boat as you. Got 50% now, and go next month for review to see if I should be higher.
Never got a slot for HALO though no matter how much I begged!

[huey]

US Military Aviation Badge (Awarded in writing by competent authority.) centered 1/2 inch above the pocket or ribbons on the left breast. CAP aviation badges are worn 1/2 inch above military badges.

Completely agree with this, the reg anyway!

[huey]

I say forget the regs and go for the tower of power.

Where could I get the Army Aviator wings made white on ultramarine? According to the reg, they said you can wear it in subdue design, and under the CAP aviation badge!

[AC]

Try here, huey...

http://www.thebattlezone.biz/

You might have to special order them with ultramarine blue cloth though. If they won't do it, there are others that will. I don't know who exactly right now , but I read in another thread they are available. Just have to do some searching.

I just like the quality of battlezone.

[NIN]

Where could I get the Army Aviator wings made white on ultramarine? According to the reg, they said you can wear it in subdue design, and under the CAP aviation badge!

Spur Nametags (1800nametape.com or 1800nametapes.com) will do them, too.  They're very nice.

[NIN]

However, because stand-ups were the name of the game, they would land softer than I did, and I did incur some injuries! That's why arthritis set in, and artificial knees were installed later in life.

And this, boys and girls, should tell you all you need to know about why you should jump square parachutes

19 years of jumping this year, and (knock on wood) no round jumps.  My knees should last me into my 70s. Better than my dad, Mr. Motocross Flattrack Screwedup Knees.

[NIN]

Forgot to add:

[J2H]

Be careful with Battlezone, looks like they ran out of the blue/white