CAP Award Ribbons Seen Elsewhere

[JohnKachenmeister]

CAP is a federal organization under the USAF.  The USAF does not permit the wear of state awards on federal duty, but makes an exception for duty less than 60 days.  They didn't use to.  I remember the days have having a "State" and "Federal" ribbon rack.

But sir, isin't CAP a federal organization (AF Auxiliary) when put on Title 10 status, and not the AF Auxiliary when put on Title 32 status?

Yes, but our uniform regs have to be approved by the USAF.  We have discussed moving CAP's AF command affiliation from Air University to the Air National Guard.  IF (big if) that happes, then we will probably fall under Air Guard regulations, which will allow you to wear state ribbons.

Of course, by the time that actually happens, if it does, you will be authorized 164 ribbons from the CAP, and will not have room for any state awards.

[RiverAux]

SDF's are allowed to wear state ribbons and they are also permitted to wear CAP awards.

This will depend greatly on the state.  I spend a lot of time on an SDF board and it seems that it is very rare for any to allow CAP awards to be worn on their uniforms. 

But sir, isin't CAP a federal organization (AF Auxiliary) when put on Title 10 status, and not the AF Auxiliary when put on Title 32 status?

Another example of why we should not be using Title 10/36 terminology when describing CAP missions --- people don't know the difference between the Title that applies to National Guard and the small part of Title 36 which applies to CAP. 

[afgeo4]

It's not an issue of service, it's an issue of federalized system of government.  Federal government supercedes the powers of the states. For example... the FBI is within jurisdiction in all states, but state police's jursidiction is only recognized in their state.

Thus... federal service awards are recognized all over the US while state service awards are only recognized by the services of said state's military.

CAP is a federal service.  We recognize federal military awards (ribbons, medals, etc.)  State medals (national guard isn't the right description here because they can also have federal awards for federal service) are only recognized by agencies of their state... For example, a soldier from NY Army Nat Guard won the NY State Medal of Valor.  He wears it proudly while on duty with the NYARNG. Then he is activated for T10 duty. The medal comes off.  Then he retires and joins the NY Guard, which is the SDF for New York. The medal can be worn again on NY Guard uniform. The states recognize federal awards and CAP awards are federal too in a way.

[DNall]

Right, don't get me wrong now.. I think it'd be fine if DoD decided to standardize a set of 5 or so decorations, or picked appropriate federal decorations in their place, and delegated authority to state govt to award those. That way you'd clear up this issue completely & not need to ever take them off, could wear them in CAP. But, no it looks wierd to have people from all over the country wearing strange dif stuff (with attachments like a bronze cactus, come on). It's a worthy thing to be fixed, but a little outside our area.

Back to it'd be nice if CAP were a little more creative (see AF example) with ribbon design.

[Hawk200]

I think the post you saw was probably of a Wg CC wearing unauth state awards, & posted to point that out. The same post would tell you that guardsmen are NOT allowed to wear state awards on extended (I think it was 60 or 90 days, something like that) federal active duty (title 10). 

The ANG supplement to 36-2903 says that state awards may be worn by personnel on Title 10 orders of 179 days or less.

Army regs are a little unclear. State awards may be worn by solders when on Title 32 status, but don't seem to be authorized while on Title 10. Active duty soldiers may accept but not wear state awards.

[lordmonar]

Then apparently the picture I saw of a CAP Lt Col wearing his guard ribbons was of an officer out of uniform regulations.  It is somewhere in one of the posts on this site.

No!  That never happens!

It is interesting that guard ribbons are authorized on AF service/service dress uniforms by guardsmen on Title 10 (traditional guard) status, but they are not authorized on AF uniforms worn by CAP members with distinctive CAP insignia.

That is because the USAF cannot dictate to the Guard Branches about their uniforms.  When a Guardsman is on federal status for longer than a certain period of time they guard ribbons have to come off.  So there is no disconnect there from the USAF's point of view.  They would rather not have the NG wear NG ribbons at all but they can't help it.  But they can say take them off when they are on federal status.  Just a CAP members who are active duty cannot wear their CAP ribbons on their AD uniforms.  So once again, there is no disconnect.

 So those senior members who are also guardsmen and have rated guard medals/ribbons cannot wear them on an AF uniform with CAP insignia.  Very interesting.

That is correct.

[DNall]

That is correct.

And not just the rule, but for the right thing to do for the right reasons.

[Hawk200]

One thing to point out about the National Guard wear of state decs. The Supplement to AFI 36-2903 that permits state decs is from the Federal level of the National Guard Bureau, not the state level. People are looking at them as separate, when in fact they are not.

It actually meets the requirements for "authorized for wear on the Air Force uniform" mentioned in 39-1. Then again, it's not like 39-1 isn't contradictory or anything.

Besides, what's the heartburn? It's not like a Guardsman gets a mass of state decs to wear. It's rarely more than one or two ribbons, and those cover things that Federal decs don't. Or is this another case of some people are jealous of military decorations that they can't get so they disallow their wear?

And what about the cases where the National Guard has awarded decs to CAP members? Should they not be allowed to wear something they have earned?

[DNall]

Yeah I'm not real sure what the point of that discussion is either. If you're in the guard, it's a fair bety you have a decent number of federal decs to go along with the two state decs. I guess in theory some state might award a CAP member a state dec they can't wear, big deal. We've already seen the case where a state took this into account & awarded federal Army civilian awards (could have used the AF civilian side also).

[fyrfitrmedic]

 On a completely different note but germane to the original topic, I once heard mention of the use of CAP ribbons on Russian naval uniforms in the movie The Hunt For Red October. Has anyone ever confirmed or debunked this?

[SarDragon]

I have the DVD. I can research it.

[Major Carrales]

See what you can find there?  CAC Ribbon?

[JohnKachenmeister]

A while back there was a commercial for I think McDonald's or some other fast-food joint.  The commercial featured a Lou Gosset-type drill instructor who yelled about something in some sort of mixed-bag characature of a military uniform.  His ribbons were a rack of 6 CAP ribbons, too.

[JohnKachenmeister]

See what you can find there?  CAC Ribbon?

Top row center looks like the Armed Forces Reserve Medal.

[Hawk200]

A while back there was a commercial for I think McDonald's or some other fast-food joint.  The commercial featured a Lou Gosset-type drill instructor who yelled about something in some sort of mixed-bag characature of a military uniform.  His ribbons were a rack of 6 CAP ribbons, too.

I hate commercials like that. I end up doing a slow burn for a few minutes after they're off. Gets on my nerves, you can tell most of the morons they have in those kind of commercials wouldn't know how to wear a real uniform if it bit 'em in the tail.

That and have you ever noticed the ones that wear uniforms as just another set of clothes? They don't have any bearing, just slouching, or sagging like a sack of flour.