Patches (again)

[afgeo4]

Anyone know a very trustworthy and affordable manufacturer of patches who'd be willing to design/redesign one? Our patch doesn't meet standards (although was authorized by Wing HQ) and I'd like to change that, but I have absolutely no computer graphics know-how and neither does anyone else I know.

(if anyone wants to help out and redesign the one we have as a favor I'd be very grateful)

[Al Sayre]

Williams and Williams does Custom Patches as long as they don't say Civil Air Patrol or CAP or include a National Logo.

[BillB]

How can Civil Air Patrol stop someone from designing and making a patch that just includes "CAP"  with no Civil Air Patrol logo? CAP in the military means Combat Air Patrol, so the term CAP does not seem to fall under the Civil Air Patrol copyright. It could stand for Community Action Patron, Colorado Anti Poultry, or anything else.

[DNall]

Whatever, you can have whoever you want do it, but there's a process for approvals that apparently involves getting Vanguard's release. Most everyone will do it w/o knowing or caring about that crap. If you find a manufacture that you really want to use & they require it then have fun with that. Otherwise just get it done. Couldn't recommend anyone myself, but I'm sure somebody around here can.

[JohnKachenmeister]

George:

Kinkos can do the computer graphics work for you at pretty reasonable cost.  I designed a squadron patch for something like $12, and for that they give you a disc with the graphic on it.  There are a lot of small embroidery shops that will produce the patches if you have the disc pretty reasonably. I had a shop that did embroidery work for the Air Guard produce mine, and they did it for something like 15 cents per patch if I recall correctly.

There is a website that I will try to find for you that gives the Air Force standards for unit patches.  I remember that squadrons are required to have round patches with rockers on top and bottom.  Groups and higher are to use the shield design with the scroll on the bottom.

[LtCol White]

We actually had a patch made for our WG HQ that was done by Vanguard. They did a great job and the price was really good.  The advantage is that they already have the format and know the sizes and styling for all military patches.

You can talk to Christine Gratis 800 221 1264 or email her at gratis@vanguardmil.com

[JC004]

There is a website that I will try to find for you that gives the Air Force standards for unit patches.

http://afhra.maxwell.af.mil/heraldry/heraldry.html

Useful for reference:
http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/

[afgeo4]

Williams and Williams does Custom Patches as long as they don't say Civil Air Patrol or CAP or include a National Logo.

do you know their website address?

[Al Sayre]

Here you go:  http://www.nametags4u.com/moralepatches.html

[Major Carrales]

What price range are we talking about here?  The Spell check feature seems to be back.

[Al Sayre]

THey've got a little spreadsheet that will give you an estimate before you call them.  Generally $2-5 each it looked like to me depending how many you order and how fancy the patch.

[LtCol White]

The price I got from Vanguard was based on the quantity.

100 patches $4.35 each
200 patches $2.80 each
300 patches $2.48 each

The quality was excellent on them. They were good about sending proof artwork for approval and then they produced one patch and sent that prior to production. Prod time was 4-6 weeks which is pretty standard.

Here is a photo of the actual patch we had made as well as the proof artwork.

[Jolt]

As far as I know, squadron patches aren't required to follow the Air Force heraldry standards.  I think/thought they only had to be approved by wing.

[Major Carrales]

The price I got from Vanguard was based on the quantity.

100 patches $4.35 each
200 patches $2.80 each
300 patches $2.48 each

(sigh).... see, I've wanted to do a patch for our unit for the longest time from personal funds, but I can't justify using some $200-400+ for something when that money could be used to buy a radio, practice ELT, cadet parade items and the like.

Plus, we wouldn't need 100, 200 or 300 patches.

Anyone know a place where they can set it up for a fee and let you order like 10 or 20 at a time?

I do, however, have an envelope where I drop a $10 or $20 towards that purchase.  Slow and steady!!!

Oh...and it not being cheap...its being practical.

[afgeo4]

absolutely correct, none of CAP patches are REQUIRED to follow the USAF heraldry guidelines. All you need is approval from Wing or higher HQ.

I want to change the patch so that it follows the USAF heraldry because I feel it's the right thing to do.

I saw a website somewhere that did 150 patches 3" diameter 100% embroidery for $2.85... is that a decent price?

Now if I could just get someone to do a nice job in drawing it...

[JohnKachenmeister]

As far as I know, squadron patches aren't required to follow the Air Force heraldry standards.  I think/thought they only had to be approved by wing.

You should follow Heraldry standards, unless you want your uniforms to look more clownish than they already do.  Plus some wings make compliance with Heraldry standards part of their approval process.

[DNall]

Plus some wings make compliance with Heraldry standards part of their approval process.

Which it should be.

I saw a website somewhere that did 150 patches 3" diameter 100% embroidery for $2.85... is that a decent price?

Now if I could just get someone to do a nice job in drawing it...

Yes, make sure of quality & such... plus that you're ready to spend $430 on an optional uniform item.

You have some graphics & a concept? PM me & I'll take a whack at it. No promises, but I'll try.

Personally, I don't care for Sq patches much. I prefer a pretty clean uniform, but if you feel like you need them for morale then that's great. I tend to let cadets wear them & discourage adults from doing so, but each there own. Mind you now, I live in a Gp w/a lot of nearby Sqs so there's a greater level of interaction & too much unit identity can be a problem at times during joint stuff. If you're going to do it, just do it right is all I ask.

Quick side point too... in some other thread talking about the clown look of our BDUs & cleaning it up, someone suggested using more subdued color scheams - not subdued like the AF mind you, just like maroon instread of glow in the dark read, & dark blue instead of ultramarine. I haven't played w/ any designs, but that sounded like a good idea.

[LtCol White]

afgeo4, $2.85 for 150 is high. Take a look above at where i listed the prices that Vanguard quoted me.

Maj C, I've never found a manufacturer yet who will make anything less than 100 patches unless you are willing to pay a ridiculous amount. They will tell you themselves that it just isn't cost effective for them. Now, what you could do is to start a fund in the SQ that is voluntary and ask for members to contribute whatever amount they want towards getting a new patch. THis way, no one can complain since the whole purpose is to get the patch and it isnt taking away funds for anything else.

[mikeylikey]

afgeo4, $2.85 for 150 is high. Take a look above at where i listed the prices that Vanguard quoted me.

Maj C, I've never found a manufacturer yet who will make anything less than 100 patches unless you are willing to pay a ridiculous amount. They will tell you themselves that it just isn't cost effective for them. Now, what you could do is to start a fund in the SQ that is voluntary and ask for members to contribute whatever amount they want towards getting a new patch. THis way, no one can complain since the whole purpose is to get the patch and it isnt taking away funds for anything else.

Make sure you send all your money to Wing HQ, don't forget the new banker program!

[afgeo4]

What we're planning to do is pay for it out of group funds initially and then sell each patch for $2 per member, so that the group doesn't lose anything. We don't forsee all 150 patches being used at first... probably half, but then we'll have patches for future members.

I don't trust Vanguard, so that option is out no matter how much they cost. I've been burned by them more than I'd like to mention.