Uniforms in COV

[RiverAux]

I'm 50%-50% on this.  Yes, when conducting the Cadet Program we have to be in uniform.  But, we go out of our way to say that transport to and from an activity like Encampments, Cadet Competitions, KOR, etc are the responsibility of the members and not the activity.

Look at it this way -- how often does someone in the Air Force perform their normal duties out of uniform? 

Are we surprised that there is an error (or to be charitable, an ambiguity) on CAP's web page? 

[arajca]

I'm 50%-50% on this.  Yes, when conducting the Cadet Program we have to be in uniform.  But, we go out of our way to say that transport to and from an activity like Encampments, Cadet Competitions, KOR, etc are the responsibility of the members and not the activity.

Look at it this way -- how often does someone in the Air Force perform their normal duties out of uniform? 

Are we surprised that their is an error (or to be charitable, an ambiguity) on CAP's web page?

Look at it this way - how many times does the Airman's duties take only 30 mins or an hour for the day then they're not on the AF's time?

[FW]

The only uniform we need while driving a COV is a CAP operators permit, a valid drivers licence and, a current CAP membership card.  However, for driving a COV while engaged in activities which require more; then do it.....

[RiverAux]

The only uniform we need while driving a COV is a CAP operators permit, a valid drivers licence and, a current CAP membership card.  However, for driving a COV while engaged in activities which require more; then do it.....

If driving a CAP corporate vehicle isn't considered a "normal CAP duty" then what is.  Your opinion is in direct contradiction of one of CAP's clearer regulations. 

[FW]

Riv, the KB explains things well.  Our insurance (self) will cover the occupants of a COV as per our regulations; uniform wear or not.  This is an argument which does not hold merit.  As long as you are properly authorized to drive a COV, wearing the uniform is not a requirement. 

However, when conducting an AFAM mission, there may be an additional requirement of being in uniform for FECA/FUTA coverage. Let's not confuse the issues, OK?

[Eclipse]

However, when conducting an AFAM mission, there may be an additional requirement of being in uniform for FECA/FUTA coverage. Let's not confuse the issues, OK?

No problem, but we're not the ones confused.

You cannot operate a CAP vehicle for any reason other than official business.

39-1 says you must be in a CAP uniform when on CAP business.

Glad we can agree on this.

Further, I question why anyone would even try to argue the incorrect position.  Is it really that onerous to wear the uniform when on CAP time?

[FW]

Actually, CAPM 39-1 states we wear the uniform when "engaged in normal duties as a CAP member or attending local, wing/region, or national CAP functions (see note 1)."

Driving the van to the gas station is not considered a normal duty as a CAP member (YMMV).
Driving to a formal CAP affair in appropriate civillian attire in a COV is appropriate.
Taking some members to the local eatery for dinner during a "meeting work night" is OK.

I never said you shouldn't wear a uniform in driving a COV,  I just said it isn't mandatory (see CAPR 77-1) 

Now, I'm back to watching the snow fall this bright April Fools day...

[bosshawk]

Fred: that isn't snow that is falling, it is excess CAP paperwork.

I received an automatic notification this morning in my email that my membership is due to expire on 28 Feb 11. 

Congratulations, NHQ!!!!!!!

[Hawk200]

It amazes me how many people want to rationalize or find loopholes to not wearing a uniform. Are you ashamed of it?

There may be times technically that you might not have to. But you'll never go wrong by actually wearing it when you're actions directly relate to CAP business.

Fueling a van? Do it before or after the meeting, you should be in a uniform anyway.

Carrying people to an encampment site? Technicality aside, it'll present a far better public image if the people inside are dressed in some type of more formal appearance (and properly) than a bunch of different types of clothing.

The person that wants to show up to activities without a uniform is not showing any type of comraderie. Just being there isn't enough. "You're lucky I showed up at all" is the first thing that says you shouldn't bother renewing.

[Eclipse]

That's what I don't understand, is the "put upon" nature of people who look for any excuse not to wear the uniform.

People in the military, FD, LEA's, they wear their uniforms 24x7 and it is understandable that they'd like a break on occasion,
but we wear them, what?, maybe a few hours a month most of the time?

I just don't get it.

[adamblank]

Yes, the ones serving "quietly without a uniform" are, or should be, referred to as "patrons".

Just as in the military, LEA's, etc., there are times and places to be flexible on this, the expectation should be
that the majority of time members will be expected to be in a uniform.

We should stop trying to find ways to water things down and lower expectations and just work the program.

+1

[N Harmon]

Tonight when I go home, does the uniform manual require I change into a CAP uniform before I reconcile the squadron finance ledger with our wing banker statement? It is, after all, one of my normal duties as finance officer.

Seriously, how about we try to apply a little more common sense and a little less equivocations about people making up excuses not to wear the uniform?

[RiverAux]

Riv, the KB explains things well.  Our insurance (self) will cover the occupants of a COV as per our regulations; uniform wear or not.  This is an argument which does not hold merit.  As long as you are properly authorized to drive a COV, wearing the uniform is not a requirement. 

However, when conducting an AFAM mission, there may be an additional requirement of being in uniform for FECA/FUTA coverage. Let's not confuse the issues, OK?

I didn't say anything at all about insurance.  That is irrelevant since the regulation is perfectly clear on when you should be in uniform (just about anytime you're doing anything for CAP).   

[RiverAux]

Tonight when I go home, does the uniform manual require I change into a CAP uniform before I reconcile the squadron finance ledger with our wing banker statement? It is, after all, one of my normal duties as finance officer.

Seriously, how about we try to apply a little more common sense and a little less equivocations about people making up excuses not to wear the uniform?

The question before was related to whether a uniform was necessary to drive a CAP van to a CAP activity of some kind.  If that isn't a CAP duty, I don't know what is. 

No one suggested that you had to wear a CAP uniform while in your home while doing CAP work.  That is common sense.  Trying to argue that participating in a CAP activity by driving a CAP vehicle containing CAP members is not "normal CAP duties" is what I would call nonsense.   

[Eclipse]

Tonight when I go home, does the uniform manual require I change into a CAP uniform before I reconcile the squadron finance ledger with our wing banker statement? It is, after all, one of my normal duties as finance officer.

Are you in public or with other members representing CAP internally or externally?

Kind of a silly example.

[Hawk200]

Tonight when I go home, does the uniform manual require I change into a CAP uniform before I reconcile the squadron finance ledger with our wing banker statement? It is, after all, one of my normal duties as finance officer.

Seriously, how about we try to apply a little more common sense and a little less equivocations about people making up excuses not to wear the uniform?

If you're not it public, or at an organized meeting (note the word "organized"), what do you think?

There are occasions when a uniform wouldn't be worn. I would surmise that it is apparently not common sense.

[EMT-83]

On the way home from work, I stopped at Wing HQ to pick up a COV for a SAREX this weekend.

Someone is actually of the opinion that I should have taken a uniform to work, and changed clothes in order to deliver the vehicle?

[Eclipse]

Someone is actually of the opinion that I should have taken a uniform to work, and changed clothes in order to deliver the vehicle?

This could be one of those flexible, common sense exceptions, but with that said, why not?

You'd change into a uniform for a unit meeting, wouldn't you?

[Trung Si Ma]

I am not wearing a uniform to take the van out to the post auto craft shop to change the oil and lube it.  I am however wearing jeans with an old encampment T-Shirt 

[FW]

Someone is actually of the opinion that I should have taken a uniform to work, and changed clothes in order to deliver the vehicle?

This could be one of those flexible, common sense exceptions, but with that said, why not?

You'd change into a uniform for a unit meeting, wouldn't you?

There is nothing more to be said on this topic.  The above explains all....