Cadets at SAR Evals...

CAPSGT · April 30, 2009, 03:46:29 PM

Interestingly though, we are one of very few national organizations that actually has a curriculum developed to the extent that we do. Many other organizations it's mainly a matter of seniority.

Larry Mangum · April 30, 2009, 04:05:24 PM

Quote from: Eclipse on April 30, 2009, 12:56:24 PM
In most GLR states the biennial evals and annual practices are a weekend, Fri-Sun.

That was probably true 5 to 6 years ago, when evals were almost purely a SAR event. Today's Graded Training Exercise, normally include a Counter Drug, Disaster Relief and finally SAR. The Counter Drug portion is normally flown the week before the SAR portion followed or concurrently with Disaster Relief Sortie's to photograph targets of interest. During all of this the IC will be receiving email and alerts that require the wing to change its response posture and to start bringing members of the general staff into the situation. The Planning Section Chief and Operation Section Chief will start analyzing data and generating the necessary sortie information so that aircrews or ground teams can start carrying out the tasking. Normally on Thursday, the IC will receive tasking that requires the wing to establish a mission base with a complete staff. An in brief will be conducted on Friday evening to the Evaluators and the staff will receive additional tasking from the Eval Team. Then comes the weekend where the EVAL team will throw everything they can think of at the IC and mission staff to see how they cope. In reality, the eval is mostly about the wings ability to run a large mission, traditionally 1 to 2 aircrews will be evaluated and 1 ground team evaluated.

At least that has been my expierence as an IC, OSC or as Wing ES.

arajca · April 30, 2009, 05:13:58 PM

The only restriction I've regularly seen on SAR-EVALS/SAREX's is that units sending cadets must also send/arrange for senior supervision of their cadets. (aside from those pesky age restrictions)

BrandonKea · May 03, 2009, 02:48:12 PM

I can remember back in the day a SAR EVAL in our wing, and really, the worst thing to deal with were the Seniors who didn't want to give up their squadron van to Ground Ops because they didn't want the other squadrons to "mess it up." After the IC told them to do it or go home, they decided they needed to take allll the stuff out of their van and put it into the van they were reassigned to. And of course, as luck would happen, the scenario we had involved opening an envelope 10 minutes into the mission, which tasked the team to change a tire, which, as was pointed out, could not be accomplished because they had switched tire rods and had the wrong type of rod to get the lug nuts off the wheel.

And yes, for the most parts, the cadets will show up, and do as they're told. But to really be useful, they need to learn. It's been pointed out a couple times in the posts I've been reading that nobody is teaching their replacements anymore. This is a prime example of that exact problem.

maverik · May 03, 2009, 03:26:15 PM

It really is but another problem I have seen with Ground Teams is that the cadets not being taken seriously enough. I mean these are soem pretty mature indiviuals who have dedicated their weekend to training to save lives and so I believe people need to stop reffering to them as kids and "telling" them what to do and start thinking them as young adults who can think for themselves. And if I see a cadet who looks young but has a GTM 1 rating then I am going to treat them with the same respect as I would a Senior Member.

BrandonKea · May 03, 2009, 03:35:26 PM

Quote from: SARADDICT on May 03, 2009, 03:26:15 PM
It really is but another problem I have seen with Ground Teams is that the cadets not being taken seriously enough. I mean these are soem pretty mature indiviuals who have dedicated their weekend to training to save lives and so I believe people need to stop reffering to them as kids and "telling" them what to do and start thinking them as young adults who can think for themselves. And if I see a cadet who looks young but has a GTM 1 rating then I am going to treat them with the same respect as I would a Senior Member.

Agreed. As a cadet, I was spending my weekends on UTM's and SAREX's, SAREVALS and the like. Now that I've been inactive and I'm getting back into the swing of things, I'd have no problem asking a qualified cadet on how to do something. And if a cadet is a GTM1 and truly earned it, and didn't just get pencil-whipped, then yeah, he or she would get the same respect as anyone. It's about being able to do the job, not how old you are (age restrictions aside).

Mendoza · May 14, 2009, 06:29:04 PM

wow, i am truly saddend by this quote, the funny part is that im am much much younger than most of those seniors and im far more physicaly fit and can gurantee that i have more sar expiriance and yet im not allowed to participate, whata load of trash...

Larry Mangum · May 14, 2009, 06:45:43 PM

Quote from: Mendoza1243 on May 14, 2009, 06:29:04 PM
wow, i am truly saddend by this quote, the funny part is that im am much much younger than most of those seniors and im far more physicaly fit and can gurantee that i have more sar expiriance and yet im not allowed to participate, whata load of trash...

Mr. Mendoza, you may or may not have more SAR experiecne then some of the seniors you run across, however what you probably don't have yet is common sense when it comes to knowing your own limitations. Unfortunately, it takes having lived life for a little while to realize that.

As an GBD or OSC or IC, I have no problem sending out a ground team with a senior as the driver while a cadet is the actual ground team leader after thourghly briefing the senior that he is to carefully listen to the cadet and take guidance from the cadet, however the senior member is responsible for ensuring that no one is put in jeopardy. I will also in this situation carefully brief the cadet and then perform a sortie briefing with both present, to make sure they are on the same page.

Mendoza · May 14, 2009, 06:48:47 PM

Then you sir are one of the few that i have met. you see unfortunately many seniors see cadets with the highest gt and ranger grades as being nothing more than "traffic directors"

Mendoza · May 14, 2009, 06:49:43 PM

tho i do fully understand wat ur saying about "knowing ur limitations" as many cadets simply do not.

Short Field · May 14, 2009, 08:28:33 PM

Where does your "Ranger" grade show up on your 101. By the way, it is OK to type whole words on your posts.

Stonewall · May 15, 2009, 01:28:26 AM

Quote from: Mendoza1243 on May 14, 2009, 06:29:04 PM
wow, i am truly saddend by this quote, the funny part is that im am much much younger than most of those seniors and im far more physicaly fit and can gurantee that i have more sar expiriance and yet im not allowed to participate, whata load of trash...

You may be more physically fit than some seniors, but you write like a 5 year old sends text messages.

I could care less about your Ranger tab you wear on your uniform in an effort "not to brag", but your attitude and inability to write a structured sentence speaks for itself. I don't have a Hawk Mountan Ranger tab and I'll smoke you on the PT field and on the SAR field.

Now stop posting like a cocky wanna-be and learn to realize that many on this board are well versed at GSAR and all aspects of Emergency Services Operations. And it is cool to use proper grammar and complete sentences.

BrandonKea · May 15, 2009, 04:49:56 AM

Quote from: Mendoza1243 on May 14, 2009, 06:29:04 PM
wow, i am truly saddend by this quote, the funny part is that im am much much younger than most of those seniors and im far more physicaly fit and can gurantee that i have more sar expiriance and yet im not allowed to participate, whata load of trash...

...and I wouldn't let you within 100 miles of my ground team...

BTCS1* · May 15, 2009, 04:56:59 AM

If he was, it would probably be because HE was the one in trouble! And once you rescue him, he'd claim he could've found himself faster...

PlaneFlyr · May 15, 2009, 11:51:48 AM

Quote from: Stonewall on May 15, 2009, 01:28:26 AM
Quote from: Mendoza1243 on May 14, 2009, 06:29:04 PM
wow, i am truly saddend by this quote, the funny part is that im am much much younger than most of those seniors and im far more physicaly fit and can gurantee that i have more sar expiriance and yet im not allowed to participate, whata load of trash...

You may be more physically fit than some seniors, but you write like a 5 year old sends text messages.

I could care less about your Ranger tab you wear on your uniform in an effort "not to brag", but your attitude and inability to write a structured sentence speaks for itself. I don't have a Hawk Mountan Ranger tab and I'll smoke you on the PT field and on the SAR field.

Now stop posting like a cocky wanna-be and learn to realize that many on this board are well versed at GSAR and all aspects of Emergency Services Operations. And it is cool to use proper grammar and complete sentences.

Come on... Mendoza's got some valid points. Let's not dismiss them simply due to some poor grammar.

As for physical fitness - we do have a large number of seniors who are out of shape (I'm still in weight regs for the USAF uniform, but not by much). For many of our missions that doesn't matter, but it does slow one down on a ground team.

Stonewall · May 15, 2009, 12:37:05 PM

Have you seen his handful of other posts? Its not just poor grammar...

coolkites · August 13, 2009, 04:10:19 AM

I recently (3 days ago) attended the ORWG evaluated SAREX but I felt that before I showed up I was not wanted. my senior member contact disappeared at our meeting before I found out when and where to show up not cool. When I did show up (after multiple emails and phone calls) I was very glad I did I learned alot and I think the seniors realized that I could actually help rather than hinder. One senior actually told me the week before that he got the feeling that other seniors didnt reallt want cadets attending??? THATS WHY WE CADETS ARE HERE!!!

Spike · August 13, 2009, 04:22:22 AM

^ ?!?!

coolkites · August 20, 2009, 07:54:38 PM

what?

addo1 · August 20, 2009, 08:10:13 PM

I, not just speaking from a cadet's point of view, believe that cadets can be very useful at SAREVALs. For a SAREVAL, it would probably be wise to send cadets/senior members that already have training since it is an EVALUATION. For the Texas Wing SAREVAL, we had very high ratings in many areas. The humorous part of it was the fact that a lot of the sections with the highest ratings, were areas that were worked with a majority of cadet participants. At my mission base, I worked and coordinated the mission sign in (IMU) as a MSA. Every one of the MSAs were cadets and each one did a fantastic job in their duties. From a trainer's perspective, I find that cadets will catch on just as fast as senior members, if not at times faster. I am not crediting/discrediting SMs or Cadets more than the other, but each need to be allowed to do their job if they are capable. Many people are capable of more than they seem. They just need to be given a chance.