Rumor Control - Corporate Vehicles

[Eclipse]

Can we all agree that beyond initial application there's little, if anything, which still should go through the snail mail or fax machine?

I'll co-sign this as long as you tell me how to handle sending payment for a cadet application to NHQ if I send the paperwork electronically.

You pay with a credit card - we do it all the time.

[Eclipse]

Also, the Check 21 allows for banks to accept a facsimile (i.e. scan) of a check in stead of the actual check.
Even though C21 is about 6 years old, its only in the last year of so that banks have really started running with the idea.

I'm not saying NHQ is equipped today for that, but they could be.  I'm hoping to be able to set that up for encampment payments next year.

[davidsinn]

Can we all agree that beyond initial application there's little, if anything, which still should go through the snail mail or fax machine?

I'll co-sign this as long as you tell me how to handle sending payment for a cadet application to NHQ if I send the paperwork electronically.

You pay with a credit card - we do it all the time.

How?

[PHall]

There's also PayPal. California Wing started using it a couple of months ago with no problems.

[Eclipse]

Can we all agree that beyond initial application there's little, if anything, which still should go through the snail mail or fax machine?

I'll co-sign this as long as you tell me how to handle sending payment for a cadet application to NHQ if I send the paperwork electronically.

You pay with a credit card - we do it all the time.

How?

Send the form and call NHQ with the credit card info - I can't tell you how many times we've done that.

[billford1]

Where Corporate vehicles apply I can only comment from my ES experiences. We have had occasion to be on non paved roads after rain and snow. The rear wheel drive vehicles don't do so well in these circumstances compared to our FWD Dodge Caravan which has done well even on roads where a sign was posted that said only 4WD vehicles should be used. If we get a real mission where there's bad weather the extra carrying capability will be great as long as the vehicle doesn't have a problem getting traction. I've told more than one CAP/USAF Officer Evaluator that when it comes to disaster relief ELT and UDF missions in bad weather it would be great to have a crossover AWD vehicle that seats six. If there's snow the 15 passenger vans can be in trouble (stuck) where an AWD vehicle can at least be mobile.

[PHall]

Where Corporate vehicles apply I can only comment from my ES experiences. We have had occasion to be on non paved roads after rain and snow. The rear wheel drive vehicles don't do so well in these circumstances compared to our FWD Dodge Caravan which has done well even on roads where a sign was posted that said only 4WD vehicles should be used. If we get a real mission where there's bad weather the extra carrying capability will be great as long as the vehicle doesn't have a problem getting traction. I've told more than one CAP/USAF Officer Evaluator that when it comes to disaster relief ELT and UDF missions in bad weather it would be great to have a crossover AWD vehicle that seats six. If there's snow the 15 passenger vans can be in trouble (stuck) where an AWD vehicle can at least be mobile.

They're not buying 15 pax vans for Ground Team use, they're buying them to transport people (cadets mostly) on paved roads.
Using a 15 pax van as a ground team vehicle, especially if you take it off road, is vehicle abuse plain and simple.

[Thom]

They're not buying 15 pax vans for Ground Team use, they're buying them to transport people (cadets mostly) on paved roads.
Using a 15 pax van as a ground team vehicle, especially if you take it off road, is vehicle abuse plain and simple.

Ummm, then what are we supposed to use as Ground Team Vehicles?  Not trying to be snarky, really, what is the answer if we consider the Vans as not suitable for Ground Teams and they are the only Corporate vehicles available?

Are we then saying that all Ground Team deployment would be in Personally-Owned Vehicles?  And, what would we do for CAP Radios in those POVs?  Handhelds just don't cut it.

And wouldn't that mean we could pull the CAP Radios out of those now 'Cadet only' Vans?

While I tend to agree with you that 15 Pax Vans are NOT ideally suited to Ground Team ES work, I don't think we should (nor will we, honestly...) say that we CAN'T use them for ES work.  If the only tool you have is a pipe wrench, you make do with a pipe wrench!

Thom Hamilton

[Eclipse]

They're not buying 15 pax vans for Ground Team use, they're buying them to transport people (cadets mostly) on paved roads.
Using a 15 pax van as a ground team vehicle, especially if you take it off road, is vehicle abuse plain and simple.

That's an interesting, unsupportable opinion, considering that transporting ground teams is one of the reasons we have them.

I'd also be curious what you consider "off-road".

This, isn't (some units have to drive roads like these just to get to their meeting places):


This is marginal:


And this is some place CAP probably doesn't belong at all, regardless of vehicle:

[SarDragon]

The third pic resembles the road we have to traverse to get to one of our repeaters, after a good rain, except this one is flatter. Fortunately, it doesn't get rained on like that too often.

[PHall]

They're not buying 15 pax vans for Ground Team use, they're buying them to transport people (cadets mostly) on paved roads.
Using a 15 pax van as a ground team vehicle, especially if you take it off road, is vehicle abuse plain and simple.

That's an interesting, unsupportable opinion, considering that transporting ground teams is one of the reasons we have them.

I'd also be curious what you consider "off-road".

This, isn't (some units have to drive roads like these just to get to their meeting places):


This is marginal:


And this is some place CAP probably doesn't belong at all, regardless of vehicle:

That gravel road? In many parts of the country that's considered an "all weather" road.
No problems with that, unless you drive like you're in NASCAR.

The hilly dirt road? Probably not a problem in dry weather, could be a bit tricky in wet weather in a 15 pax van.

And I won't even comment on that last road.

If you guys want "Ground Team" vehicles, then fill out a Vehicle Justification form asking for one and send it up through channels if that's what you need.

The 15 pax vans seem to be the "default" vehicles. If you don't express a preference, then that seems to be what you get.

Here's one question to ask yourself. If there was an accident, and you were appointed the investigating officer.
Using your best ORM skills, would using a 15 passenger van as a Ground Team vehicle, off road, be the safest course of action?
Or would this be a risk that could have been reduced by using vehicles that were built for use off road.

There's nothing in the regs that precludes you from using a POV on a Ground Team mission, especially if the POV is more suited for the job then a street van.

[Eclipse]

ORM and choice don't come into play here.  We aren't provided a motor pool of vehicles.

Of course anyone with a choice should choose the best vehicle available.  In my case I'm not going to drive
a van when my POV is a 4x4 pickup truck equipped with DF, CAP Radio, and other related toys, but if the only vehicle available is a van, you take the van.

It would be FW&A to have an ill-suited SUV sitting in the hanger unused when a unit needs a transport vehicle 80% of the time and an SUV 20% of the time.

The only place ORM comes into play is taking the vehicle someplace it doesn't belong.

[billford1]

Whether it's for transporting Cadets or others for non ES activities or SAR work sometimes a squadron has to do the best they can with one vehicle. It seems like any vehicle compromise should at least have front wheel drive. To stay with RWD vehicles means at times there are a lot of places you can't go. If you decide to go anyway you could be waiting a while for a tow truck.