What sort of vehicle should we be driving?

[SarDragon]

we should get hummers millitary kind so we can take them off road for es and we can pull peoples cars or people out of floods

If you look back in the thread, you will see that we are specifically forbidden from having certain vehicles, including Hummers. They require a lot of time and money to maintain, and aren't cost effective for CAP.

Would you rather have 10 O-flights or a Hummer?

[mikeylikey]

Would you rather have 10 O-flights or a Hummer?

Tough question.......

Hummer!

[Becks]

A hummer? (H1, H2, H3...is there an H4?) , thats a civilian vehicle, in fact didnt IL wing have one they drove down to Katrina?
Now a HMMWV on the other hand.......

[Eclipse]

A hummer? (H1, H2, H3...is there an H4?) , thats a civilian vehicle, in fact didn't IL wing have one they drove down to Katrina?
Now a HMMWV on the other hand.......

Yes, and with deference to Sam, it was way more trouble (IMHO) than it was ultimately worth.

Real Hum-Vees are not good transport vehicles - they have uncomfortable straight-up seats (try that for 13 hours!)



They get (obviously) terrible mileage, and his was diesel, which made fuel enroute a real concern, especially into the disaster area.  (once in the AO, everything from an agency was diesel, so there were fuel cels all over the place, Sam was gassing up with the Army every day).



Its also pretty heavy and slow, in comparison to the average civilian-esque COV or POV, so that increased our travel time somewhat. Having only 4 seats means its an expensive per-man hauler, too. (you can see the mil-spec trailer he was pulling loaded with water, food and gear.

Now, once in the AO, you obviously want the biggest hammer you can carry, and I understand there were a few times he did get to utilize the capabilities pretty well, and of course you never know what you >might< run into, but for the most part we were in flat, urban areas, so there wasn't a lot of need for advance off road ability (or climbing, etc.).


From my experience, the Ford Aerostar we had turned out to be the perfect sortie vehicle - plenty cushy and smooth for the transit there and back, and room for up to 6 or 7 legally if needed (though it'd be 7 little fellers). 

Once there, we pulled the middle seats, which made it easy-in / easy -out  even with the full rattle on, and left room for a notebook in the middle for navigation.



Now, with all that said, we sure didn't lose any cool points driving around with it down there, that's for sure.   

[♠SARKID♠]

Oh man, I remember the family aerostar from when I was about 6.  My dad used to sing "Hot Rod Aerostar" while driving down the road.  And props on pic #2, thats my beloved Orca2 in the background!

[SarDragon]

A hummer? (H1, H2, H3...is there an H4?) , thats a civilian vehicle, in fact didnt IL wing have one they drove down to Katrina?
Now a HMMWV on the other hand.......

The cadet said hummer. I responded in kind.

[sarmed1]

I think there is no cookie cutter vehicle type that fits CAP operations.  Just like any other emergency service organization the vehicle types and number sare specific to the individual agency (or thinking Fire Department like....station) even to the point not just state to state but even as close as one squadron to the next.  Based on that I think the 15 pasenger van with the occasional 4x4 SUV is the best option for now...only because of the varied mission requirements those two types meet the majority of needs. 
Certainly I can see some special requirements such as mobile command vehicles or commo vehicles.  Specialized 4x4....ie the overgrown ATV's, boats or even light weight pick up type trucks (thinking small 4 door toyota type's) even some large 2 1/2 ton military type (or stake body) for hauling gear and equipment packages (or resupply or fuel bladders/tanks)

mk

[SAR-EMT1]

I think there should be a single`C-130 at national HQ for use in KAtrina like emergencies and also as an IACE taxi.
Impossible to obtain, maybe not -fedex has one - (that i know of)
Thoughts?

[Eclipse]

Our thinking has been a pickup with a pop-up camper trailer approaches the perfect combo.

Relatively cheap, and your team rolls up with a shelter and a sortie vehicle.

(I'm talking ground ops, not activity transport, etc.)

[DNall]

I think a mid-sized hybrid 4wd SUV would be best for ES. With small utility box trailers for extended stay & specialized ES gear. You need something that can haul 6-8 packed in with gear in the TLR, but then comfortably run 4-man teams in the AO, with room for gear plus excess water/MREs when some needs to be given out.

Give me per FOB 4-6 of those & an RV/bus (I know buses are on the list of things we're not supposed to have also) converted to mobile command center (C4ISR), and I'll give you back one hell of a performance.

Set that C4ISR vehicle up for task force command. TLR for sustain & extra gear.... basically let me downlink SDIS/Archer in near real time at an FOB in the mud so I can deliver intel take to the local EOCs/agencies on my FOB while they're still trying to get their feet under them. That's in business right there.

The vans actually are a good compromise. The fact is we do a whole ton more cadet hauling & UDF than we ever will GTM2/1 or greater level taskings. I think for those kinds of vehicles we're better off for the time being depending on member POVs. However, I think we do need to seek funding for several of those C4ISR converted RVs. That's what we're really missing. If you want to find missions we can do in those kinds of situations, comm support on P25 is one of those. Delivering air/grd recon in near real time while everyone else is still on their butts is one of those too (Florida Recon style).

[SarDragon]

I think there should be a single`C-130 at national HQ for use in KAtrina like emergencies and also as an IACE taxi.
Impossible to obtain, maybe not -fedex has one - (that i know of)
Thoughts?

Sure - who's going to pay for it? Who's going to use it when CAP isn't? It's too expensive an asset to leave sitting "just in case" most of the time? It costs about $3800 per hour just for fuel. That's about 38 hours flight time in our normal corporate aircraft. [Numbers rounded a little. Get over it.] Where's the money going to come from?

[DNall]

^ screw all that, who's going to fly it? We have a hard enough time with GA8s, and specifically picked that plane over other options (single turbine or twin piston) for that reason.

[sarmed1]

Our thinking has been a pickup with a pop-up camper trailer approaches the perfect combo.

The Comm king when I was in TX had one of those military boxes that mounts into the bed of the pick up...but extend the legs and it comes off in place and can be attached to a generator for a stay behind comm unit, while the truck goes mobile.

Years a go a friend had the idea to re-arange the van seats (read modify) so they mounted length wise down the sides of the van.  (kind of like the bench seat in an ambulance) you could still seat/belt like 8 in the van plus gear, plus stretcher down the center (basically a more optimal gear hauler while retaining the belted personnel capability)

I dont know about the command vehicle. Yeah sometimes they are useful, but most "field command" locations I have been at still are hard facilities..having all of your gear outside the rest of the  command locatiosn is just a PITA...I like the idea of a mobile command equipment cache, that can be set up anywhere, be it tent, gym or back of a "borrowed RV"

[JayT]

I think there should be a single`C-130 at national HQ for use in KAtrina like emergencies and also as an IACE taxi.
Impossible to obtain, maybe not -fedex has one - (that i know of)
Thoughts?

How often do we have Katrina like emergencies? Who would fly it? Would would loss a spot in flight school because a CAP guy took it? Who's gonna have time to go through the training? Who's gonna maintain it? What do you mean IACE Taxi? Are we really gonna fly this thing to a dozen different countries in the span of a few days?

How much does a hanger for a 130 cost?

Let's worry about the Herky Bird right after we get all of our people compliant with all of our regulations, NIMS, in proper uniform and gear, etc etc etc.

[DNall]

I'm not against us having some larger platforms, but nothing close to a 130. There's a few twins I'd be willing to look at though, in a quantity like the GA8. Something that can do reasonable transport and good operational payload for long duration flights. That opens up some over water HLD, a legit trans capacity, and payload missions (multi channel P25 comm support post-disaster, FLIR with downlink, etc). Something like king air sized but probably high wing & newer than some of the traditional high wing twins. Not the C27J, that's too big.

[N Harmon]

I'm not against us having some larger platforms, but nothing close to a 130. There's a few twins I'd be willing to look at though, in a quantity like the GA8. Something that can do reasonable transport and good operational payload for long duration flights. That opens up some over water HLD, a legit trans capacity, and payload missions (multi channel P25 comm support post-disaster, FLIR with downlink, etc). Something like king air sized but probably high wing & newer than some of the traditional high wing twins. Not the C27J, that's too big.

The Coast Guard will be meeting those needs with the HC-144A (based on CASA CN-235). While half the size of a C-27, it may still be too big.


Another option would be the DHC-6 Twin Otter, which have re-entered production.

[DNall]

Another option would be the DHC-6 Twin Otter, which have re-entered production.

Don't we still have a couple of those in Alaska? It's still on the maint rate chart IIRC. It's a real nice durable aircraft that can handle a less than perfect runway, like for instance after a hurricane.

[N Harmon]

Don't we still have a couple of those in Alaska? It's still on the maint rate chart IIRC. It's a real nice durable aircraft that can handle a less than perfect runway, like for instance after a hurricane.

I believe you're thinking about the DHC-2 Beaver

[cnitas]

That Coastie HC-144A is a nice plane.

[afgeo4]

Are you guys planning to drive these vehicles or is this meant for some other topic?