FLIR?

[Eclipse]

I would propose that Wings or Regions be given some, for lack of a better term, R&D budget to work with, rather than everything needing to be a big national program.  Let people do some, controlled, experimentation with technologies, and see what works.  If SER can make a FLIR system work, great, then adopt it nationally.  If NER tries out UberNewTech 2.0 and it fails, the issue is contained in a smaller region, and we can try something different.

Making a system "work" is wasted time unless you can staff and man it consistently, even when "Old Joe" is sick.
Most of what CAP does, from a tech standpoint, is personality-based, and folds when the personality dies or gets fed up.

We should not be "developing" anything (i.e. the incredible failure that was ARCHER).  We should do what everyone else does,
buy stuff that is decidedly mature, and then develop the people resources to run those systems.

As an organization we have shrunk to the point where we are no longer (assuming we ever were)
able to respond to anything more then a rain storm without bringing in resources from all over the country,
and then the first day is spent arguing about situation systems, search tech, and radio channel plans.

But no, why would we standardize?

[lordmonar]

If it's useful in one wing, it's useful in all of them, and we should be spending time creating
national programs that find a way to deploy them across the board.

That's not even close to being true.  And it illustrates the basic problem with "standardize everything" thinking.

Fair enough, then don't market it as a capability nationally, or even discuss it much outside the wing where it
is being used.

FLIR, ASP, ARCHER, SDIS, whatever is shiny this week, are all marketed, both internally and externally as if they
were standard capabilities available everywhere (that's certainly the underlying insinuation).

That would assume that the assets and their crews can't be used outside of their localities....which is not true.   The GF aircraft based in NVWG and LAWG can and do travel to other locations to support customers.   ARCHER was supposed to be a regional asset that traveled to where it was needed.

[Eclipse]

That would assume that the assets and their crews can't be used outside of their localities....which is not true.   The GF aircraft based in NVWG and LAWG can and do travel to other locations to support customers.   ARCHER was supposed to be a regional asset that traveled to where it was needed.

"Supposed to" and "is" are about a Grand Canyon away from what ARCHER or these other platforms are.

The special aircraft became hangar queens or basically personal aircraft for a select few members who could fly them
(based partially on typically unnecessary CAP training "extras").

Not to mention the bar was so high on operator training that it essentially all but excluded those pre-selected to participate.

The number of times the ASP has been used outside the bandcamp it was clearly intended to support is statistically zero.

[lordmonar]

That would assume that the assets and their crews can't be used outside of their localities....which is not true.   The GF aircraft based in NVWG and LAWG can and do travel to other locations to support customers.   ARCHER was supposed to be a regional asset that traveled to where it was needed.

"Supposed to" and "is" are about a Grand Canyon away from what ARCHER or these other platforms are.

The special aircraft became hangar queens or basically personal aircraft for a select few members who could fly them
(based partially on typically unnecessary CAP training "extras").

Not to mention the bar was so high on operator training that it essentially all but excluded those pre-selected to participate.

The number of times the ASP has been used outside the bandcamp it was clearly intended to support is statistically zero.

I agree.....but I also consider things going forward.    If CAP experments with a new technology there is no reason not to advertise that nationally.  We should not throw out the baby with the wash water.   Just because ARCHER got mismanaged (both on the training side and the operations side) is not a reason to completely stop trying to do centrally managed limited asset programs.

[Eclipse]

I agree.....but I also consider things going forward.    If CAP experments with a new technology there is no reason not to advertise that nationally.  We should not throw out the baby with the wash water.   Just because ARCHER got mismanaged (both on the training side and the operations side) is not a reason to completely stop trying to do centrally managed limited asset programs.

The you advertise it as a "pilot" or "limited" program, not insinuate it's what ever member and customer can expect.

The reality is that a big chunk of members never get a single "real" mission, never touch advanced technology, heck,
never even venture outside weekly meetings, yet even units in podunk nowhere show photos of this stuff on their
science-fair boards as if they were doing it themselves.

[Spaceman3750]

Here's a crazy idea... Is there a way we can use those fancy P25 radios to beam pictures to the ground faster and legally(er) than the slow Sprint cards? It's all just data whether it's voice or pictures right?

[Eclipse]

Here's a crazy idea... Is there a way we can use those fancy P25 radios to beam pictures to the ground faster and legally(er) than the slow Sprint cards? It's all just data whether it's voice or pictures right?

Last time I checked, data rates for P25 were measured in "K" and would make 1990 AOL seem speedy.

P25 Phase 3 was supposed to address it, and again, last I checked the project was scrapped. like 4 years ago.

[Al Sayre]

VHF-FM narrow band operates in the 140 MHz range this means that in modulating the base frequency of 140 MHz the maximum frequency change is +/- 5 KHz (audio ranges) hence a maximum data transmission rate would theoretically be 10Kbps. 

[JeffDG]

VHF-FM narrow band operates in the 140 MHz range this means that in modulating the base frequency of 140 MHz the maximum frequency change is +/- 5 KHz (audio ranges) hence a maximum data transmission rate would theoretically be 10Kbps.

I looked once, and P25 digital was 9,600 bps.

Now, I have used modems slower than that, but not for a LONG time, and NOT to transmit high-resolution imagery.

What you could do with it would be hook it up to a GPS and maybe a text-terminal type thing as a situational awareness transmission and text messaging capability...it's amazing what a Raspberry Pi will do!

[Spaceman3750]

Well, I thought I had a good idea for a minute. Wonder how far 2.4GHz goes on a 2k ft antenna .

[Flying Pig]

I know CAP is not ever going to have full time aircrews manned and standing by 24/7... however a perspective on my end.  My last LE air unit did have full time aircrews that flew probably 25-30hrs per week.  Id say 75% of that time was at night using NVGs and FLIR.  With my current unit/employer we do not have full time LE observers.  We have a bunch of deputies who are assigned and each come in 2 days per week to cover the month.  That equates to about 3-4hrs of flight time per month per observer.  And they still are terrible at using the FLIR.  Terrible to the point of almost worthless.  It will take me a couple of years of just saturating them with scenarios every time we get in the helicopter.  It is extremely labor intensive on the part of the pilot because I am flying at night, on NVGs AND trying to instruct the observer how to use and tweak the FLIR.  For people in CAP who get into the program, its imperative that people understand that using a FLIR is much more than setting Manual Gain and Level and then just swinging the FLIR back and forth.   When you think you are good at it, you probably arent.  Simply based on the exposure a CAP FLIR operator is going to get.  Thats one of the issues I have with it.  How much is this thing really going to get used.  And when it is called into action, when was the last time the operator used it with any proficiency?

[sarmed1]

If it's useful in one wing, it's useful in all of them, and we should be spending time creating
national programs that find a way to deploy them across the board.

That's not even close to being true.  And it illustrates the basic problem with "standardize everything" thinking.

Different situations have different requirements, and tools and training should be tailored to meet the requirements that exist.

There is little use for "Mountain Flying" in Florida, but by the thinking above, if it's useful in one wing, it must be useful in all, and therefore we must make Mountain Flying mandatory for all Mission Pilots, including those in a state where the highest elevation is approximately what crop-dusters fly at.

Water survival is another one.  Well, we fly over-water missions in Florida, so by-God, North Dakota, all your aircrew must be Water Survival trained.  And because Winter Survival is a useful skill for a North Dakota ground team, you better believe that Puerto Rico Wing will be making it a mandatory part of their curriculum.

I think that CAP looks at this as more of a you may be called to:__________________. So yes you are a land locked MP, but if CAP puts out an "all call" for crews/aircraft to come to say Florida for a large scale mission, they want crews to be "universally" deployable, (hence have water survival) and not figure out how to coordinate on site just in time type of training with already limited rescources.

Practically I can see say having all personnel complete an initial training/qualification, and maybe meet some sort of compute based refresher on the didactics ever 2 years.  Then only require a brief hands on skill refresher as a "just in time" prior to or onsite of a large scale "deployment"

MK

[a2capt]

Mismanaged training. Imagine that. Yup, you show up for a class that the instructor was 'forced' to give, that the instructors' motive is to remain the only one qualified, so he gives out ambiguous information, blows through the topics so fast, leaves out key details, for a test that you could only take once.

[Eclipse]

One of the major problems with a lot of these initiatives is that because of the way CAP does its
inventories (and due in large part to historical shenanigans by members), everything has to be
issued to a "person", and generally "people" don't like to be held responsible for stuff they
don't have in their possession.

So the camera/flir/GPS/GIIEP/shiny beepy thingies is in "Jim's garage" and Jim's out of town/4 hours away/mad at CAP/won't let anyone else touch it.

The answer is "enough to go around,  assigned where needed and in accessible locations", however that takes money and trust.