Public Beta/Image Processing Software

[tinker]

After action reports:

"Image processing after the sortie continues to be a problem.  It sometimes took longer to process the images than it did to fly the sortie."

"When images were downloaded from cameras, they were downloaded in folders of varying names.  This did not cause a problem until all images were complied for transfer to disc for permanent storage.  A standard file storage labeling needs to be established."

Phyllis (All software packages must have names, right?) is intended to help with this.

Anyone with experience or interest in processing mission photos is invited to try the public beta version of Phyllis.  Additional information here: http://alpha.17500mph.com/viewforum.php?f=2

If you do try the software, please add your comments to the alpha.17500mph forum.  Unfortunately, the forum spam protection requires that you register with a valid email address.  Please take the time to do this and then to help hone the product by reporting your experience and making suggestions for improvement.

[Eclipse]

Who is this being tested for?   Do you have official standing with CAP, or is this just something you decided to do yourself?

[tinker]

Who is this being tested for?

For anyone who wants to have their photo processing job made easier.

Do you have official standing with CAP,

Gawd no.  Life is too short.

or is this just something you decided to do yourself?

I enjoy making amd modifying my own tools.  I think I am on at least kneeboard Mk. VI.

You like it?  Enjoy.  You don't like it?  Have a nice day.

[Eclipse]

I understand - the challenge here is that NHQ now mandates that a specific photo processing application be used for all aerial product.

[Tubacap]

^News to me.  Cite please?

[Eclipse]

^News to me.  Cite please?

I'm not sure that I can find anything to cite. 

This popped up about 18 months ago and has been a mandate for about a year.  No idea who wrote it or where it came from, but the NOC is now requiring any photos on WMIRS use this application - it basically puts a logo and location data on the image from a spreadsheet.

How "mandated"?  Can't say that for sure, either, other than it was definitely required by the evaluators during the GLR evals.  Use of it was a specific point by CAP-USAF, so at a minimum its mandated anywhere the GLR CAP-USAF evaluators work, and they tend to stick pretty close to the books on most things.

I also know its being taught and used at NESA this year. Its not rocket science or very fancy, but it does the job.

I would swear I had a memo somewhere from NHQ, but I can't find it.  I seem to recall 1AF was involved in the requirement.

[Eclipse]

The nearest thing I can find doesn't help much - its a message off another GLR Wing's "all" list
that references what the program does, but not the application itself.

"...All personnel who might take aerial photos, read below.  We MUST ensure we follow 1AF guidance.
Commanders and aircrew personnel need to be familiar with these details.


The standardized imagery identification metadata for CAP is:

1.  Date:  Military format
       - Example:  22MAR07
2.  TOT:  Time Over Target (zulu)
       - Example:  1030Z
3.  Location:  City and State/GPS Coordinates/ North arrow annotated
       - Example:  Biloxi, MS/ Latitude: N000000.00  W0000000.00 4.
Object:  Name of object imaged (from collection deck when available)
        - Example:  Chalmette Refinery"..."

I had it on my machine but can't find it - have to light up my CAP notebook.

[Tubacap]

I believe that is all you will find, although if there is something more, I would be very interested to find it.  The WMIRS upload process automatically does this, but it does a poor job if you are not connected to the internet   Also, sometimes you need the images packaged for distribution with movable media or thumb drives.  WMIRS would be very cumbersome to do this sort of tasking.  Having seen the beta of Phyllis, Geo has made an extremely viable product to cover the above requirements with a more flexible tool.

[Eclipse]

I believe that is all you will find, although if there is something more, I would be very interested to find it. 

No, there's an actual application, I've used it.  I will grant you I'm full of it until I can prove it.

[Eclipse]

Found the application:  http://cap.ttar.org/imageprocessor/

It does this:



Though nothing on the page about the 1AF mandate.

[SarDragon]

I know the guy. Sharp troop. Check out the latest Volunteer, page 27, lower right corner. Got the Exceptional Service Award for his efforts.

[tinker]

The standardized imagery identification metadata for CAP is ...

to which Phyllis is compliant.  I have the letter.  BTW the quotation you posted has an error in the format for the lat/long information.

Its not rocket science or very fancy, but it does the job.

Its called capimageprocessor.exe.  If you had any actual experience with what you are talking about, you would know that it does the job only with great effort on the part of the user.  It also has technical deficiencies.  capimageprocessor.exe is what they were using on the mission mentioned above where the processing took longer than the sortie.

As a start towards solving the problem, capimageprocessor.exe was a fine effort.  People who have been beta testing Phyllis, people who have actual experience, think Phyllis is significantly better.  One comment: "This application is great work and after spending many hours toiling over the other image labeling program, this tool is heaven-sent."

I guess with 5,600 posts there is little chance that you can know very much about most of the subjects you comment on, but it does make things kind of tedious.

[Eclipse]

I guess with 5,600 posts there is little chance that you can know very much about most of the subjects you comment on, but it does make things kind of tedious.

What's with the personal attack?

Did I say I liked it?  Did I say I preferred it? I said I used it, and that it was mandated by 1AF.

Actual experience?  I am recognized and sought out for my photo work - I created an instructor curriculum to teach Scanners proper procedures.

I have no idea what my number of posts has to do with experience or abilities in CAP, but since you think its relevant, maybe you should wait until yours increments a few more before making personal attacks on people who've been hanging around here a while.

[SarDragon]

Anybody got a fork? 

[tinker]

I am recognized and sought out for my photo work - I created an instructor curriculum to teach Scanners proper procedures.

A person with that background would be an asset to the beta program.  Particularly if he/she looked at the software or even just read the introductory description before commenting.

Re the photo you posted, it is not compliant with the Salvador letter.  But with your expertise, you already knew that.

</thread drift>And ... now back to our regular programming.  Beta testing and feedback still sought!

[Eclipse]

Just because someone does "something", doesn't necessarily mean anyone / everyone else should automatically be "interested", (or not).

One of the biggest problems we have in CAP is people constantly voluntarily reinventing the wheel and then getting upset when a tree falls and no one is listening.  If you have the authority in your AOR to dictate using something other than the approved application, by all means do so.

Your app could be the best thing since Tandy Desktop,  but if NHQ isn't interested in it, its just going to cause users frustration because they will learn "x", only to be told "y" is the "Way".

You'll also get further in situations like these if you simply accept the facts when pointed out to you instead of assuming that any reality you don't appreciate is automatically an attack.

[wuzafuzz]

I am recognized and sought out for my photo work - I created an instructor curriculum to teach Scanners proper procedures.

A person with that background would be an asset to the beta program.  Particularly if he/she looked at the software or even just read the introductory description before commenting.

Re the photo you posted, it is not compliant with the Salvador letter.  But with your expertise, you already knew that.

</thread drift>And ... now back to our regular programming.  Beta testing and feedback still sought!

Dude (tinker), cool your jets or no one will want to play with you.  If your application is all that, let it stand on it's own and entertain the honest questions people have. 

You don't need to trash people and other applications to look good.  I wish you luck with your efforts.

[tinker]

If your application is all that, let it stand on it's own and entertain the honest questions people have.

I couldn't agree more.  That was the objective of the first post and it continues to be the objective.

You don't need to trash people and other applications to look good.

Also agreed.  I expected this to be a one post thread.  I never expected to get jumped by some guy who wants to complain about the free lunch without ever looking in the bag.  If making that observation is trashing him, then that's what is in the eye of the beholder.

Re capimageprocessor.exe I hope nothing I said has been construed as "trashing" it.  It is a fine initial effort and undoubtedly took a lot of work.  As the release notes say:  "it will get the job done if used properly."  Apparently the author even received an award for it.  After using it, however, I decided to try to write something better.  Simple as that.

BTW, here is a link to a sample photo:  http://www.scc.net/~mitty/Phyllis/09-B-0001%28Air-01%29-01C.jpg  From putting the camera memory card into the computer to having the sized, captioned photo was 2 minutes and 11 seconds.  That's a little faster than it would be for a photo where the GPS lat/long and time stamp were not available for automatic addition to the captioning record.  In batches, the processing time per photo will basically be limited by how fast the user can get the captioning information into the records.  All the other stuff, rotation, copying, sizing, previewing, etc. takes very little time.

Are there mods here?  This whole thread could be collapsed back to the intial post with no loss to the world.

[Eclipse]

Are there mods here?  This whole thread could be collapsed back to the intial post with no loss to the world.

Yeah, well that's not how it works around these parts, we live and die by the history of what we say here. 

I asked whether you were with NHQ because we get people from NHQ here all the time tossing out ideas - they generally get our attention because they have the ability to actually impact change.

Your response was a veiled insult about the folks at NHQ.

I then pointed out there was an official application being pushed, at least in some parts, by 1AF, admitted I could not substantiate the requirement, and provided a link to the app.

I didn't "complain" or "trash anyone" - the negative comments were all from you. 
Sorry you feel you did not receive the hero's welcome you apparently believe you deserve.

Sincerely,

     "Some Guy"

[sdcapmx]

Great job on the software Tinker.  Let's get back to the topic at hand.  There has been no push by NHQ in my region to use the "approved" software.  We just found out about the "approved" software a couple weeks ago.

[dbaran]

There was an email sent to wing and region commanders last year (4 Sept 2008) from John Salvador which stated the AFNORTH Picture Labeling Requirements for all Air Force Missions.  This email states what must be included with the picture, and mentions Tolga Tarhan's software as a way to do it, but does not require or even suggest a requirement that the software be the only way to accomplish this.    Here's the info that needs to come with the picture:

AFNORTH's standardized imagery identification labeling requirement for CAP is:
1.  Date:  Military format
        - Example:  03SEP08
2.  TOT:  Time Over Target (zulu)
        - Example:  1030Z
3.  Location:  City and State/GPS Coordinates/ North arrow annotated
        - Example:  Biloxi, MS/ Latitude: N000000.00  W0000000.00 (NOT degrees, minutes, seconds)
4.  Object:  Name of object imaged (from collection deck when available)
        - Example:  Chalmette Refinery

In this email, it had Tolga's cell phone number for people to call if they had problems.

[KyCAP]

And to make things more interesting apparently RoboGEO is now also supporting the CAP labeling requirements with a /CAP switch in their executable.  GLR has purchased licenses for all it's wings and we are now implementing this vs the imageprocessor software.   But I am just the COMM Guy..

[RiverAux]

From what I recall the Salvador letter mandated what should be on the photos but did not require that a specific method be used to do it and said that the referenced program was one way of doing it. 

Quite frankly we are usually getting photos for other agencies and they often have their own way of doing things so even if this was an AFNORTH requirement, it may not be what is done for missions on the behalf of local or state agencies. 

I used the program and it was okay, but when I tried to get some support from the designer he failed to respond to a follow-up email, so I haven't messed with it since. 

[tinker]

Quite frankly we are usually getting photos for other agencies and they often have their own way of doing things so even if this was an AFNORTH requirement, it may not be what is done for missions on the behalf of local or state agencies.

Yes.  If you click "Expert" mode on the caption editing or captioning screens you will have an option to change the caption according to customer requirements, including alternative lat/long formats, deletion of the graphics, etc.  In the event someone runs across a requirement that cannot be handled by the current options it is easy to add more.  Re AFNORTH requirements, those are simply a default setting for the captioning so it is a matter of a few minutes tweeking the code to set a new default.

There are some additional comments on captioning at http://alpha.17500mph.com/index.php under the "user input sought" topic.

I used the program and it was okay, but when I tried to get some support from the designer he failed to respond to a follow-up email, so I haven't messed with it since.

Hmmm ... sorry 'bout that.  AFIK I've responded to everything I've received.  Please try again.  You should be able to email me direct via this board.

[RiverAux]

I used the program and it was okay, but when I tried to get some support from the designer he failed to respond to a follow-up email, so I haven't messed with it since.

Hmmm ... sorry 'bout that.  AFIK I've responded to everything I've received.  Please try again.  You should be able to email me direct via this board.

I was referring to the "CAP Imaging Processing System".  Haven't used your software. 

[tinker]

I was referring to the "CAP Imaging Processing System".

Oh, ok.  Please give Phyllis a try!