National mandates who teaches ICS/NIMS classes

[Timbo]

I just got an email sent out by my Wing Operations Officer, stating that National Headquarters has stated that they want us to get our 300 level class taught to us by our States Emergency Management Agency, and no one else.  Is this BS on his part??  Because of this, if I wanted to complete this course, I would have to drive 4 hours and spend around $250.00 

Has any heard of this policy he is referencing???

[RiverAux]

Possibly this has something to do with what was said in anothe thread about there being some confusion about an online ICS300 prep course done by the Dept. of Agriculture (which is not an adequate substitute for the actual classroom course).

If your state is charging $250 for this course, then that is BS. 

[smj58501]

If your state is charging $250 for this course, then that is BS. 

Concur.... they should have gotten funding from DHS to provide this training already

[Eclipse]

Unless this is required by some MOU with the state, I'd throw the flag.

ICS 300 is ICS 300, and every state in the nation has plenty of free classes through a variety of agencies.

[Major Carrales]

If your state is charging $250 for this course, then that is BS. 

Concur.... they should have gotten funding from DHS to provide this training already

I believe he is including the rent for a Hotel/Motel nad fuel.  Having to travel more than an hour for a "classroom" course is ridiculous.  I have always been a fan of "save the money for actual operations, equipment or the like," not travel for class stuff.

Driving 200-300 miles to get an ICS class, be it free or not, is folly; especially in our troubled economy.

Having it where CAP cannot conduct the courses is house is also folly.  We should strive to be leaders in the ES community, not "the group of mixed uniformed people who show up to an ICS training."  Until we get over the various inferiority complex-like ora that exists in CAP, we will always be second banana!!!

[Phil Hirons, Jr.]

From the April letter about the NIMS training

Some states require instructors to complete a specific course in order to teach ICS, or for courses to
be recognized locally. Wings that desire to conduct their own courses should coordinate with their state
and local counterparts in order to be sure that training will be recognized locally. Wings desiring to
restrict instructor qualifications further than noted above can do so through an approved policy memo or
supplement to regulation CAPR 60-3

Requiringthe classes be taught by someone approved by your States' Emergency Management Agency seems to be in line with this.

[Timbo]

I believe he is including the rent for a Hotel/Motel and fuel.  Having to travel more than an hour for a "classroom" course is ridiculous.  I have always been a fan of "save the money for actual operations, equipment or the like," not travel for class stuff.

You are correct!  The Course fee is $30.00.  The course itself is Saturday and Sunday, with the cheapest hotel in the area at almost $100.00  I took in to account tolls which average out to $30.00 and two meals/snacks and gas.  That brings me upward of $250.00

I am just disappointed in Pennsylvania Wing again.  I know it Costs $$$ to be a member of CAP, but I don't want to begin paying for mandated training, that I can get closer to home from another agency other than the states EMA.

I was just wondering if this truly was a NHQ requirement for the 300 class, nationwide, or something ridiculous from my Wing.      

[argentip]

Check with your county Emergency Management Office.  That is who I took both my 300 and 400 courses through.  They were also free.  These classes were done specifically for CAP, but we also have a good relationship with our county EM office.

As for your question, it is a requirement to have the class taught by someone who is authorized by your state's EM Agency.  There is no way to get around this.  I would expect that your county would have one of these instructors.

[Eclipse]

I was just wondering if this truly was a NHQ requirement for the 300 class, nationwide,

No.

I don't know of anyone who paid for the classes in my wing, nor anyone who had to travel more than an hour, most under 30 minutes.

[RiverAux]

Unless you're in the middle of Pennsylvania, you might want to see if 300 is being taught over the border by another state.  Might be a bit closer. 

[WT]

Must have been another one of those e-mails from the PAWG DO sent to "everyone" (wink-wink), that was only sent to certain people, that everyone was expected to see!

[Major Carrales]

I was just wondering if this truly was a NHQ requirement for the 300 class, nationwide,

No.

I don't know of anyone who paid for the classes in my wing, nor anyone who had to travel more than an hour, most under 30 minutes.

Which Wing are you from?  I know that in Texas, it takes more than two days to get from any given border to its opposite end. So called "Centralized" training in Austin, Houston or San Antonio still means people will be driving (in some cases) more than 5 hours as many as 8 or 9 in some cases.

[Major Carrales]

From the April letter about the NIMS training

Some states require instructors to complete a specific course in order to teach ICS, or for courses to
be recognized locally. Wings that desire to conduct their own courses should coordinate with their state
and local counterparts in order to be sure that training will be recognized locally. Wings desiring to
restrict instructor qualifications further than noted above can do so through an approved policy memo or
supplement to regulation CAPR 60-3

Requiringthe classes be taught by someone approved by your States' Emergency Management Agency seems to be in line with this.

My point is that active step be taken to have CAP Officers who are qualified to teach the courses.  Thus, in house CAP ICS courses can be give by CAP Officers to CAP Officers (and others) that we don't have to be scrounging around and traversing creation for "mandated" CAP course. 

I would go as far as to say that all WINGS with GROUPS should have three ICS 300/400 courses a year one sponsoered by the WING, and the other two sponsored by the GROUP with a SQUADRON as its host.

This way, ICS becomes a part of CAP's make up.

[RiverAux]

I'm sure that it will over time.  Quite frankly, it seems as if some state agencies are the real hold-up here in not making this training more widely available in their states.  Every public safety organization has to have these courses.  It seems that some states are making a major push on this while others are dragging their feet. 

Some states may already have done a ton of 300/400s over the last two years and the smart CAP members took advantage of that and from now on there probably won't be nearly as many available due to decreased demand.  For example, PA looks like it has had dozens and dozens of 300s in 2007 and 2008 (according to the PEMA training calendar), but hardly have any available now. 

[Tubacap]

I think there needs to be a distinction between CAP mandated and Federally Mandated courses.  The ICS courses are federal courses required by DHS for certain jobs.  In so much as CAP works with in the emergency response field, our players need to be able to play interagency.  Just sticking within CAP defeats the purpose entirely.

I agree, we should have instructors, but I wholly disagree with the fact that the training should exclude other agencies, in fact it is my belief that for the advanced ICS courses, it should be a requirement of the instructors to have multiple jurisdictions present at the course.

In regards to PAWG, there is an ICS 300 being held at our Wing HQ this month, but there are a variety of other ICS 300s throughout the state that are posted on the PEMA website.  I for one, took ICS 300 in Gilette PA at a firehall, and I am about to take ICS 400 in Horseheads NY with SEMA, also sponsored by a Fire Company.  My ICS 300 counts, as well as I am sure the 400 counts.

Finding these courses is somewhat tricky, you just need to know where to ask.  In PA, you need to ask your County Emergency Management Coordinator, and then expand the search from there (the internet is our friend in this regard).

[fyrfitrmedic]

 For those in southeastern PA, it's often more convenient and less of a travel issue to take ICS 300 and 400 through DEMA.

[Phil Hirons, Jr.]

My point is that active step be taken to have CAP Officers who are qualified to teach the courses.  Thus, in house CAP ICS courses can be give by CAP Officers to CAP Officers (and others) that we don't have to be scrounging around and traversing creation for "mandated" CAP course. 

I would go as far as to say that all WINGS with GROUPS should have three ICS 300/400 courses a year one sponsored by the WING, and the other two sponsored by the GROUP with a SQUADRON as its host.

This way, ICS becomes a part of CAP's make up.

I looked into getting qualified to teach these courses. The only thing that would satisfy RIEMA was a week long course at a training center in Maryland. If I'm going to burn a (n other) week's vacation for CAP, several things would come before that (Staff College, NESA, Encampment...)

[isuhawkeye]

Iowa will be offering another TTT for ICS 300 and 400 this spring.  unfortunately it will take place during the work week

[IceNine]

I was just wondering if this truly was a NHQ requirement for the 300 class, nationwide,

No.

I don't know of anyone who paid for the classes in my wing, nor anyone who had to travel more than an hour, most under 30 minutes.

Which Wing are you from?  I know that in Texas, it takes more than two days to get from any given border to its opposite end. So called "Centralized" training in Austin, Houston or San Antonio still means people will be driving (in some cases) more than 5 hours as many as 8 or 9 in some cases.

IL

6 Hours tip to tip (N->S)
3 Hours (E->W)

[DNall]

Having it where CAP cannot conduct the courses is house is also folly.  We should strive to be leaders in the ES community, not "the group of mixed uniformed people who show up to an ICS training."  Until we get over the various inferiority complex-like ora that exists in CAP, we will always be second banana!!!

I think that's a little backward. A lot of the "in-house" training we do in CAP is because we aren't on par with what professional responders are training on. It's elementary school versus college. Going to training alongside emergency responders from a multitude of agencies in the state gives CAP a lot more visibility and opportunity to learn from them & vice versa. I absolutely think CAP should NOT conduct these courses in-house, especially not when it's being offered for free from the state on a regular basis.

Now, as far as the original poster... I find it extremely difficult to believe the state of PA is ONLY offering the course at one location however many hours away. I can see $30 for logistics & course materials, but many offerings are free. The point is not that you have to take it directly from the state EMA at their HQ, but that you have to take it from an instructor approved by the state EMA. In truth, CAP can get some of our instructors approved to do that, eventually, but there's a lot of extra course work involved in getting to that work. And, as I said, the joint environment is the key to future success.