Uniform identification

Started by Tactics, February 23, 2019, 03:24:20 AM

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Tactics

so I have a service coat (I think) and I tried going through the regs but couldn't find anything about It.
here are some images:



Hopefully that worked

Eclipse

Assuming its blue and not black, it looks like the 4-button "I Dream of Jeannie"-style
service coat cadet can still wear.

Or it might be an academy coat?

"That Others May Zoom"

Tactics

do you know where it is located in 39-1? also yeah its blue

lordmonar

Quote from: Casey Peterson on February 23, 2019, 03:41:01 AM
do you know where it is located in 39-1? also yeah its blue

Para 4.1.3. and Para 4.1.6.
PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

glm705

If you're interested in wearing it, cadets can not wear Air Force style buttons on the new ones, so you would need to put on buttons with the CAP crest (assuming you're a cadet.)
Regulation Nerd and PA Geek

Eclipse

Quote from: glm705 on February 23, 2019, 05:42:56 AM
If you're interested in wearing it, cadets can not wear Air Force style buttons on the new ones, so you would need to put on buttons with the CAP crest (assuming you're a cadet.)

Cite please.

"That Others May Zoom"

SarDragon

Quote from: glm705 on February 23, 2019, 05:42:56 AM
If you're interested in wearing it, cadets can not wear Air Force style buttons on the new ones, so you would need to put on buttons with the CAP crest (assuming you're a cadet.)

Irrelevant comment. The picture is of an old style coat.

Emphasis mine

4.1.6. Men's Service Dress Uniform (Class A) Old Style (Figure 4.6)
4.1.6.1. This USAF-style uniform may only be worn by cadets.
4.1.6.2. Coat. Semi-drape, single-breasted with four USAF Crest or CAP Crest buttons,
pleated breast pockets, and inside hanging lower pockets; pockets have flaps with buttons centered on
bottom edge of flap. The bottom of coat extends to length of fingertip with hands slightly cupped; will not
be form fitting; suppressed at waist with ease in shoulders, chest, and underarms. Coat and trousers will
match in shade and material.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

arajca

Quote from: SarDragon on February 23, 2019, 06:45:27 AM
Quote from: glm705 on February 23, 2019, 05:42:56 AM
If you're interested in wearing it, cadets can not wear Air Force style buttons on the new ones, so you would need to put on buttons with the CAP crest (assuming you're a cadet.)

Irrelevant comment. The picture is of an old style coat.

Emphasis mine

4.1.6. Men's Service Dress Uniform (Class A) Old Style (Figure 4.6)
4.1.6.1. This USAF-style uniform may only be worn by cadets.
4.1.6.2. Coat. Semi-drape, single-breasted with four USAF Crest or CAP Crest buttons,
pleated breast pockets, and inside hanging lower pockets; pockets have flaps with buttons centered on
bottom edge of flap. The bottom of coat extends to length of fingertip with hands slightly cupped; will not
be form fitting; suppressed at waist with ease in shoulders, chest, and underarms. Coat and trousers will
match in shade and material
.
The last section is very commonly ignored. Modern blues pants do not match the old service coat in either shade or material. And, IMHO, looks tacky.

PHall

Quote from: arajca on February 23, 2019, 02:59:07 PM
Quote from: SarDragon on February 23, 2019, 06:45:27 AM
Quote from: glm705 on February 23, 2019, 05:42:56 AM
If you're interested in wearing it, cadets can not wear Air Force style buttons on the new ones, so you would need to put on buttons with the CAP crest (assuming you're a cadet.)

Irrelevant comment. The picture is of an old style coat.

Emphasis mine

4.1.6. Men's Service Dress Uniform (Class A) Old Style (Figure 4.6)
4.1.6.1. This USAF-style uniform may only be worn by cadets.
4.1.6.2. Coat. Semi-drape, single-breasted with four USAF Crest or CAP Crest buttons,
pleated breast pockets, and inside hanging lower pockets; pockets have flaps with buttons centered on
bottom edge of flap. The bottom of coat extends to length of fingertip with hands slightly cupped; will not
be form fitting; suppressed at waist with ease in shoulders, chest, and underarms. Coat and trousers will
match in shade and material
.
The last section is very commonly ignored. Modern blues pants do not match the old service coat in either shade or material. And, IMHO, looks tacky.

Oh it looks worse then tacky. It looks just plain bad. We really do need to start thinking about not allowing these coats to be worn anymore.

CAP_truth

Uniform is from 1980s or early 1990s Lower pocket is flaps and not kangaroo pockets from earlier style uniform.
Cadet CoP
Wilson

NIN

Quote from: PHall on February 23, 2019, 05:24:37 PM
Oh it looks worse then tacky. It looks just plain bad. We really do need to start thinking about not allowing these coats to be worn anymore.

I've been saying that for years, yet people still shout "but, muh uniform costs! We still have them in squadron supply!"  Finding a set of 1980s matching coat/trousers likely is more expensive these days than just finding a current coat (to match the trousers a cadet gets with the Curry voucher). Never mind that the uniform is 25+ years out of date. Most of the ones I see these days are in awful shape, too. Faded, getting a little ratty. 

If we were still authorized to wear 25+ year old uniforms when I joined as a cadet, we'd have been wearing these:






ok, we were still wearing fatigues like that last one.  Up until 1991 or so.
Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
I have no responsibilities whatsoever
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2024 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Tactics

So a very knowledgeable contact of mine said that this uniform as defined in CAPM 39-1 figure 2-1 it says you can wear it as a service coat with a tie now according to Chap 4 Part 1 Section 1 Subsection 3 it says it's strictly for semi-formal bow tie. This is very confusing and I would like to now if I can't treat it as a service coat (tie) and be 'good' in the eyes of the C.A.P regulations.

Eclipse

Quote from: arajca on February 23, 2019, 02:59:07 PM
The last section is very commonly ignored. Modern blues pants do not match the old service coat in either shade or material. And, IMHO, looks tacky.

Quote from: PHall on February 23, 2019, 05:24:37 PM
Oh it looks worse then tacky. It looks just plain bad. We really do need to start thinking about not allowing these coats to be worn anymore.

This is a very nice coffee-house argument that means very little in the current of the CAP multiform.

Several of the major uniform variants have zero color or material specification, CAP's official supplier
uses a roulette wheel to choose the colors in the field uniforms it sells, and there are a lot of members
with eagles on their shoulders who don't understand the grooming tables are not "suggestions".

Frankly the least "tacky" thing about the CAP uniform are cadets with a shade-mismatch between
their unit-issued jacket and their CAP-issued trousers.

"That Others May Zoom"

Eclipse

Quote from: Casey Peterson on February 24, 2019, 03:37:11 PM
So a very knowledgeable contact of mine said that this uniform as defined in CAPM 39-1 figure 2-1 it says you can wear it as a service coat with a tie now according to Chap 4 Part 1 Section 1 Subsection 3 it says it's strictly for semi-formal bow tie. This is very confusing and I would like to now if I can't treat it as a service coat (tie) and be 'good' in the eyes of the C.A.P regulations.

It is worn as a standard service coat, not a "semi-formal only".

"That Others May Zoom"

Tactics



This is ripped straight from 39-1, now this is the only uniform that looks like mine and it is labeled as "Male Cadet Semi-formal Dress Uniform (Old Style)
Now it does not mention anything about this being able to be used a formal (not semi-formal uniform) as I believe only the new style can be used as formal not the old style
Quote from: Eclipse on February 24, 2019, 03:50:49 PM
Quote from: Casey Peterson on February 24, 2019, 03:37:11 PM
So a very knowledgeable contact of mine said that this uniform as defined in CAPM 39-1 figure 2-1 it says you can wear it as a service coat with a tie now according to Chap 4 Part 1 Section 1 Subsection 3 it says it's strictly for semi-formal bow tie. This is very confusing and I would like to now if I can't treat it as a service coat (tie) and be 'good' in the eyes of the C.A.P regulations.

It is worn as a standard service coat, not a "semi-formal only".

Eclipse

You are incorrect, and the relevent verbiage has been cited multiple times in this thread.

The illustrations are examples, the text is (are) the rules.

"That Others May Zoom"

lordmonar

Quote from: Casey Peterson on February 24, 2019, 05:11:56 PM


This is ripped straight from 39-1, now this is the only uniform that looks like mine and it is labeled as "Male Cadet Semi-formal Dress Uniform (Old Style)
Now it does not mention anything about this being able to be used a formal (not semi-formal uniform) as I believe only the new style can be used as formal not the old style
Quote from: Eclipse on February 24, 2019, 03:50:49 PM
Quote from: Casey Peterson on February 24, 2019, 03:37:11 PM
So a very knowledgeable contact of mine said that this uniform as defined in CAPM 39-1 figure 2-1 it says you can wear it as a service coat with a tie now according to Chap 4 Part 1 Section 1 Subsection 3 it says it's strictly for semi-formal bow tie. This is very confusing and I would like to now if I can't treat it as a service coat (tie) and be 'good' in the eyes of the C.A.P regulations.

It is worn as a standard service coat, not a "semi-formal only".
Now scroll down to section 4.1.6
PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

Adam B

Quote from: Casey Peterson on February 24, 2019, 03:37:11 PM
So a very knowledgeable contact of mine said that this uniform as defined in CAPM 39-1 figure 2-1 it says you can wear it as a service coat with a tie now according to Chap 4 Part 1 Section 1 Subsection 3 it says it's strictly for semi-formal bow tie. This is very confusing and I would like to now if I can't treat it as a service coat (tie) and be 'good' in the eyes of the C.A.P regulations.

Why rely on a "very knowledgeable contact," when the correct answer is freely available to the public on the official CAP website?

The "old style" service coat is perfectly fine for cadets, and can be configured for BOTH service, or semi-formal, wear.
For service dress, it's worn with a blue shirt, a tie, and name tag (ref: 4.1.6). For semi-formal, it's worn with a white shirt and bow-tie, with name tag and hat removed (ref: 4.1.3.1). Both configuration require the usual ribbons, grade insignia, etc.

The full "formal" uniform is known as Mess Dress, and is only authorized for senior members. Despite the different sounding names, CAP considers both the Cadet Semi-Formal and the Senior's Mess Dress to the be equivalent to a civilian tuxedo (ref: table 1-1).
Adam

SarDragon

Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret