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Becoming a FRO

Started by Pylon, October 03, 2005, 02:07:32 PM

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Pylon

I mentioned this topic briefly in another post, about becoming an Incident Commander, however there is a specific issue about becoming a FRO that I'd like to hear some discussion on.

In order to become a Flight Release Officer (FRO), you have to complete the National online training course and be one of the following:  A CAP pilot, a unit commander of a unit with flying activity, or an Incident Commander.  Short of being one of those three, you can't be a FRO without a "special dispensation" from your Region Commander.

Now, this seems curious to me.  You could be a 20-year CAP veteran, a Mission Scanner, Master Mission Observer, an Air Operations Branch Director and the ES Officer for your unit... and even if you complete the FRO course, you couldn't become a FRO without completing the litany of ratings it takes to become an Incident Commander.

Seems to me like we're closing out perfectly qualified personnel to release flights.  In addition, it almost seems like this would lend itself well to the "good ol' boys flying club" mentality -- particularly since pretty much only pilots and commanders of flying units can release each other. 

To me, it also seems to devalue the importance of the other members of an aircrew - namely the Observers and Scanners.  A well qualified mission observer with many hours in the air, who is maybe even an AOBD and has completed FRO training should be just as eligible as that minimum hours CAP Pilot who just joined CAP, took the online test, and is now a FRO.

Seems like other aircrew members with experience are perfectly capable of executing the simple duties of the FRO.  So, why shouldn't they be eligible?

Thoughts, ideas, your perspective on the issue?  :)
Michael F. Kieloch, Maj, CAP

NDCS

The way I understand to be a FRO has to be a pilot is from the legal aspects. If someting happens the lawyers  ::) will be looking for anything than can to prove that CAP did not have qualified person as FRO because they are not a pilot and the FRO does not understand FAR's it just a perception but it could sway a jury. There is a lot things CAP does or doesn't do is about liability. I have a lot cadets ask me why they can not do certain ES activities such as hurricane duty many people do not understand that FICA and FECA insurance do not cover personnel under 18 and if the cadets get hurt it would open a very large can of worms
Dean Reiter Col CAP
ND/CC ND001

Hotel 179

Seems like other aircrew members with experience are perfectly capable of executing the simple duties of the FRO.  So, why shouldn't they be eligible?

Thoughts, ideas, your perspective on the issue?  :)
[/quote]

Hello All,

Although this thread has grown cold, I'm new to the forum so I'd like to make a comment.  I like the quote "simple duties" as it perfectly describes the duties of a flight release officer.  Someone on the ground needs to know when the aircraft is out and about.  If you should be home by mid-afternoon and it's now several hours past dark, someone should start to look for you.  The FRO is not a dispatcher and it's still up to the pilot to determine if this is a flight that can be safely executed.  Almost anyone can ask the dozen or so questions that the FRO asks before signing the dotted line. 

I trust many folks in the organization to have enough on the ball to perform the duties of an FRO and they shouldn't necessarily be a pilot.

Semper vi, ya'll.

Stephen
Stephen Pearce, Capt/CAP
FL 424
Pensacola, Florida

Chris Jacobs

But a lot of the questions are pilot related.  And i have seen a lot of people that get signed off for something and they have no business being signed off for that.  What is to say that we won't start signing people off for FRO without them knowing what to do.  If they are a pilot we at least can guarantee that they know what they are talking about.
C/1st Lt Chris Jacobs
Columbia Comp. Squadron

mawr

Quote from: Chris Jacobs on December 06, 2006, 11:00:03 PM
But a lot of the questions are pilot related.  And i have seen a lot of people that get signed off for something and they have no business being signed off for that.  What is to say that we won't start signing people off for FRO without them knowing what to do.  If they are a pilot we at least can guarantee that they know what they are talking about.

Then your Wing CC should be looking at replacing your Director of Operations.  There's no room for the "good old boys" club anymore.

Additionally, are your briefing and debriefing officers at mission base pilots?  What about your clearance and dispatch or your AOBD?  They all ask questions that the FRO does, and then some.
Rick Hasha, Lt Col CAP

Trung Si Ma

As a relatively new CAP pilot (I waited until I met the requirements to be O-ride qual-ed) I bring nothing to the table that I didn't already have as a Master Observer.
Freedom isn't free - I paid for it

lordmonar

Quote from: Hotel 179 on December 06, 2006, 10:54:38 PMThe FRO is not a dispatcher and it's still up to the pilot to determine if this is a flight that can be safely executed.  Almost anyone can ask the dozen or so questions that the FRO asks before signing the dotted line. 

Sure anyone can ask the questions....but it takes someone with flight experience and command responsibility to understand the answers.  The FRO is the last chance the mission base staff has to put a stop to an un safe pilot.  That is the job of the FRO.  He is an extra set of piloting skills to double check the mission pilot to be sure he is ready and safe to fly.  The FRO is not a formality any more than the preflight of an airplane is a formality.  It is the last chance for some one to keep the mission safe.
PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

Chris Jacobs

Quote from: mawr on December 06, 2006, 11:08:30 PM
Quote from: Chris Jacobs on December 06, 2006, 11:00:03 PM
But a lot of the questions are pilot related.  And i have seen a lot of people that get signed off for something and they have no business being signed off for that.  What is to say that we won't start signing people off for FRO without them knowing what to do.  If they are a pilot we at least can guarantee that they know what they are talking about.

Then your Wing CC should be looking at replacing your Director of Operations.  There's no room for the "good old boys" club anymore.

Additionally, are your briefing and debriefing officers at mission base pilots?  What about your clearance and dispatch or your AOBD?  They all ask questions that the FRO does, and then some.

Its not the director of operations.  It is some of the people below him, and it is not really the good old boys club mentality.  More of just lack of good training.  I still feel that the FRO should be a pilot.  As Lordmonar said it is one last safety stop.
C/1st Lt Chris Jacobs
Columbia Comp. Squadron

RiverAux

2 of the 3 qualifications for being an FRO (which is not a position used during missions-- this is just for nromal CAP flying) do not require you to be a pilot.  A non-pilot unit commander or a non-pilot IC can be an FRO.  So, there obviously are no "legal" issues that require a pilot to do FRO. 

That being said, AOBD should be allowed to be FROs since essentially the AOPD is releasing aircraft and overseeing all flight ops during a mission so why couldn't they handle keeping track of when 1 plane gets released to go do some proficiency flying? 

Chris Jacobs

Quote from: RiverAux on December 07, 2006, 03:38:02 AM
2 of the 3 qualifications for being an FRO (which is not a position used during missions-- this is just for nromal CAP flying) do not require you to be a pilot.  A non-pilot unit commander or a non-pilot IC can be an FRO.  So, there obviously are no "legal" issues that require a pilot to do FRO. 


That is a good point I didn't think of those situations.
C/1st Lt Chris Jacobs
Columbia Comp. Squadron

SJFedor

Is everyone that desperate to become an FRO? Do you WANT to be woken up at 7am because someone wants to do a proficiency flight on a beautiful Sunday morning?

Unit commanders with a flight program will usually authorize other members to be FRO's, and yes, usually pilots, because, more then anything else, pilots are going to be intimately familiar with the 60-1, moreso then your 8 months in 2LT personnel officer or 2 years in GTL. If you're having issues getting a hold of FRO's, complain up the chain, and they'll get more of them, or different ones assigned.

PA used to have local FRO's, then FRO's that could do releases at the group level, and then FRO's that could do releases at the wing level. Now that I'm in TN, its interesting because they actually just have people appointed to be FRO's at the Wing level that cover the entire wing.

Just doing the paperwork as an AOBD doing releases at a mission sucks, I don't think I'd like people calling me at all hours of the day and night to get releases as well.

Steven Fedor, NREMT-P
Master Ambulance Driver
Former Capt, MP, MCPE, MO, MS, GTL, and various other 3-and-4 letter combinations
NESA MAS Instructor, 2008-2010 (#479)

ELTHunter

Once you meet all the other qualifications for IC, and take the online FRO course, you can be an FRO whenever you are ICing a mission.  You do not have to be a pilot.
Maj. Tim Waddell, CAP
SER-TN-170
Deputy Commander of Cadets
Emergency Services Officer