2024 Winter Command Council

[SARDOC]

My point exactly...training next to nil UNLESS ya sit for 120 hours self teaching self inflicting

Before anyone suggest going to a Region charm school for this...CAP might want to get a gaggle of IT gurus in those nearly little used Mahindra/ Gipps GA8s and puts on Wing wide shows

Speaking of which.  National has made the decision to retire the GA-8s by 2027.

[ML07]

My point exactly...training next to nil UNLESS ya sit for 120 hours self teaching self inflicting

Before anyone suggest going to a Region charm school for this...CAP might want to get a gaggle of IT gurus in those nearly little used Mahindra/ Gipps GA8s and puts on Wing wide shows

Speaking of which.  National has made the decision to retire the GA-8s by 2027.

Will there be any replacement for them?

[Fubar]

Will there be any replacement for them?

Are there any missions for them? Not sarcasm, genuinely don't know.

[jeders]

Will there be any replacement for them?

Are there any missions for them? Not sarcasm, genuinely don't know.

The only thing that comes to mind which can't be accomplished by other existing platforms would be transport. The current push seems to be using CAP personnel to help support blood drives, so moving large volumes of blood in a short time would be a good mission for them. Additionally, it was very helpful a few years ago, when a group of cadets enroute to NBB broke down on a highway in Illinois or Indiana, to be able to pick them up in the GA-8 used for static display at the CAP recruiting tent.

But, as transport missions requiring that lifting capacity are few and far between, there's likely not enough justification to keep the GA-8s around.

[ML07]

Will there be any replacement for them?

Are there any missions for them? Not sarcasm, genuinely don't know.

Neither do I. Since ARCHER has fallen under its own weight, unless their is some sort of airborne capability that requires more space than that provided with the remainder of the fleet, I can't imagine what they would be needed for except for niche edge-cases.

[farsightusf2017]

Will there be any replacement for them?

Are there any missions for them? Not sarcasm, genuinely don't know.

You mean qualifying 3 scanners on one sortie isn't a mission?? *sarcasm*

Logistically they are a nightmare and with little gain to the organization. The 206 comes close in capability while maintaining similarities to the other types enough to not worry about how proficient one is in the GA8.

[NIN]

Logistically they are a nightmare and with little gain to the organization.

from an analytics standpoint, the GA-8s fly more maintenance missions (A9) than others.

That right there should tell us all we need to know.

[SARDOC]

Will there be any replacement for them?

Are there any missions for them? Not sarcasm, genuinely don't know.

No There are no plans to replace them

But, Yes, there is a mission for them.  Alaska uses them to transport people enough they have three of them.  Nevada uses it to transport people to a remote outlying field in support of Green Flag West.  I'm sure there are others but  those are the ones that I know of. 

[SierraOneThree]

Also it was approved that military ribbons will be allowed on the white aviator shirt.

(ya welcome)

Kidding, kinda. Glad to see that made it through the gauntlet of things they slashed from our draft.

[farsightusf2017]

Also it was approved that military ribbons will be allowed on the white aviator shirt.

(ya welcome)

Kidding, kinda. Glad to see that made it through the gauntlet of things they slashed from our draft.

I'm curious what things were proposed that were cut?

[Майор Хаткевич]

The digitals, probably. /s

[NIN]

The digitals, probably. /s

"I would like the digitals."

"I want the green boots."

"The digitals."

Gosh I wish we still had that floating around.

[SierraOneThree]

I'm curious what things were proposed that were cut?

2PFDUs for aircrew, I believe the flag patch being optional on the bag with optional HHQ patch instead a la ACC. I believe those two are the only ones I know for sure. Guess we'll see when it makes its way to our reddit front page the nanosecond it's published.

[farsightusf2017]

I'm curious what things were proposed that were cut?

2PFDUs for aircrew, I believe the flag patch being optional on the bag with optional HHQ patch instead a la ACC. I believe those two are the only ones I know for sure. Guess we'll see when it makes its way to our reddit front page the nanosecond it's published.

Don't get me wrong I'm not against 2PFDU although I don't see the benefit for us. I guess minus taking off the blouse when it's hot but at that point we should fly in ABUs/BBDU? Where as that option doesn't exist for those in MiLAV who have to wear the nomex and the 2 piece is great for the crew dogs.

[SierraOneThree]

Don't get me wrong I'm not against 2PFDU although I don't see the benefit for us. I guess minus taking off the blouse when it's hot but at that point we should fly in ABUs/BBDU? Where as that option doesn't exist for those in MiLAV who have to wear the nomex and the 2 piece is great for the crew dogs.

It was mainly one of those we were trying to future-proof, and allow AF/Army aircrews who had them issued be able to wear them to CAP as well as anyone who wanted to get them. It's a very different fabric from the standard OCPs, much more comfortable for general usage, for meetings and staff jobs, etc. I was hoping to not have to blouse my boots, but I guess I'll just stick with the green nomies.

[PHall]

Don't get me wrong I'm not against 2PFDU although I don't see the benefit for us. I guess minus taking off the blouse when it's hot but at that point we should fly in ABUs/BBDU? Where as that option doesn't exist for those in MiLAV who have to wear the nomex and the 2 piece is great for the crew dogs.

It was mainly one of those we were trying to future-proof, and allow AF/Army aircrews who had them issued be able to wear them to CAP as well as anyone who wanted to get them. It's a very different fabric from the standard OCPs, much more comfortable for general usage, for meetings and staff jobs, etc. I was hoping to not have to blouse my boots, but I guess I'll just stick with the green nomies.

It's a different fabric because they're Nomex.

[farsightusf2017]

Don't get me wrong I'm not against 2PFDU although I don't see the benefit for us. I guess minus taking off the blouse when it's hot but at that point we should fly in ABUs/BBDU? Where as that option doesn't exist for those in MiLAV who have to wear the nomex and the 2 piece is great for the crew dogs.

It was mainly one of those we were trying to future-proof, and allow AF/Army aircrews who had them issued be able to wear them to CAP as well as anyone who wanted to get them. It's a very different fabric from the standard OCPs, much more comfortable for general usage, for meetings and staff jobs, etc. I was hoping to not have to blouse my boots, but I guess I'll just stick with the green nomies.

It's a different fabric because they're Nomex.

Yup tracking assuming by the name of FDU it was nomex. As I realize now the 2PFDU is the nomex OCP not the green two piece we have in the Navy. I wonder if the blue 2P massifs were considered?

[SierraOneThree]

Yup tracking assuming by the name of FDU it was nomex. As I realize now the 2PFDU is the nomex OCP not the green two piece we have in the Navy. I wonder if the blue 2P massifs were considered?

Doubtful. I found that likely a good portion of the people involved with uniform policy outside of general members making recommendations are....somewhat ignorant of current uniforms in real world applications and related technological advances. The only reason Massif flight jackets were added was because of a few people who wear them were able to be involved with one of the drafts.

Oh yeah, Massif jackets both green and OCP were in the draft. I believe they were retained.

[skymaster]

Yup tracking assuming by the name of FDU it was nomex. As I realize now the 2PFDU is the nomex OCP not the green two piece we have in the Navy. I wonder if the blue 2P massifs were considered?

Doubtful. I found that likely a good portion of the people involved with uniform policy outside of general members making recommendations are....somewhat ignorant of current uniforms in real world applications and related technological advances. The only reason Massif flight jackets were added was because of a few people who wear them were able to be involved with one of the drafts.

Oh yeah, Massif jackets both green and OCP were in the draft. I believe they were retained.

     There is a lot of truth in a lot of policies adopted by CAP in the last 10 years or so. As an example, I personally spoke one of the leading members of the committee whose deliberations resulted in the restructuring of the CAP grade restructuring a few years ago, that made promotions to the higher grades further out of reach for many members. He was himself a retired USAF Lt Colonel who was a CAP Colonel, and pushed hard for additional roadblocks for promotion to Colonel because the grade of Colonel when he was in the service post-Vietnam was nigh impossible, and he thought that was still the case in the 2010s and after. Even though that the Secretary of the Air Force himself publicly stated that there is no reason why any officer in any specialty that does his job dutifully and completes all appropriate PME should not be able to retire from the USAF as a full Colonel. In other words, it is literally more difficult to get promoted to full Colonel in an Auxiliary of the USAF than it is in the actual Active Duty USAF. Prior to this change, it was at least possible to achieve the grade full colonel in CAP by becoming the National HQ Department Head (e.g. National Health Services Officer, National Historian, National Director of Safety, National Chief of Staff, etc.)  without also having previously served as at least a CAP Wing Commander.
    Along these lines, many well-meaning members of various committees discussing things such as uniform changes seem to have something of a similar view. CAP still uses an outdated height-weight standard that is no longer used in the actual USAF. It was replaced by a Body Mass Index (BMI) system over a decade ago, and even that was tweaked in early 2023 to increase the allowed percentage of body fat in male troops to be increased from 20 to 26 percent, and for females the allowed percentage of body fat was increased from 28 percent to 36 percent. (The Air Force Academy still uses a height/weight chart because of their specially tailored uniforms, but that is an Academy standard, not a Service standard). The current USAF standard for members of both the Air Force and Space Force actually uses a measurement of the ratio of the measurement of the smallest part of the waist (essentially, your trouser size) divided by your height in inches. People meet the AFI 36-2903 standards if the ratio is any number less than 0.55 . If that number exceeds 0.55, then the individual does not meet the current AF standard. If this actual current USAF standard were adopted by CAP as well for members to wear the USAF-style uniform such as the new OCP uniform, then a LOT more CAP members that must wear Corporate uniforms because of not meeting a obsolete USAF height/weight chart standard intended for late teens/early 20s age Initial Entry Basic Trainees and Officer Candidates, could wear a (appropriately distinctive) same uniform as our parent service.
    I find it somewhat ironic that, as a officer of the Georgia State Guard Air and Space Force (whose uniform policies follow USAF and Air National Guard standards), I can wear a minimally distinctive OCP uniform NOW and still be in fully within State DOD regs, but must wear Corporate uniforms when performing Federal CAP duties. I sincerely hope that the day comes when I can wear the same OCP uniforms and just change out the velcro name, branch, and grade to wear it performing CAP duties

[SierraOneThree]

I find it somewhat ironic that, as a officer of the Georgia State Guard Air and Space Force (whose uniform policies follow USAF and Air National Guard standards), I can wear a minimally distinctive OCP uniform NOW and still be in fully within State DOD regs, but must wear Corporate uniforms when performing Federal CAP duties. I sincerely hope that the day comes when I can wear the same OCP uniforms and just change out the velcro name, branch, and grade to wear it performing CAP duties

For what it's worth, the draft from last spring basically just said for grooming standards "refer to the DAFI." I don't think there was anything about height/weight, but it stands to reason that we would do the same with that, and just say "refer to the USAF regs."