Public Displays of Affection

[Hawk200]

I'm basically gonna seagull here, got to leave for my meeting in a few, but got to thinking about it, and figured I'd ask the question.

Where do most of you folks stand on the concept of hugging at meetings? Personnally, I don't really do hugs, even though I have friends telling me to lighten up.

The case here is a cadet that wants to hug me. I'm really not comfortable hugging in the first place, and there is the additional point that the cadet is also male. (Yeah, the usual "guy thing".)

Am I being prudent? Or just being a prude?

[DNall]

I don't know that I'd call that "public dsiplay of affection" like a couple cadets making out, but it's a level of familiarity that shouldn't be demonstrated. It would be inappropriate for an officer int eh military to display that llevel of friendship w/ a subordinate, especially in view of others, and if you think there's a way you should hug a cadet in private then you deserve to be in trouble. I don't know about you personally, maybe you do need to lighten up. I hug outside friends away from CAP when it's appropriate, just not in my capacity as an officer.

[bosshawk]

I concur with Dennis: no place in CAP, especially between a Cadet and an Officer.  In my humble opinion(?), not what I would like to see between either two cadets or two officers.  Just not appropriate.

[RiverAux]

I agree with the above.

[fyrfitrmedic]

 Add me to the 'me too' list - such behavior isn't appropriate in uniform IMHO and presents as what could at best be deemed impropriety.

[Major_Chuck]

Call me an old fashioned prude...but no PDA in uniform, on a CAP activity, and never between an officer and cadet.

[Pace]

Not in uniform.  Not on CAP time.*

*There is always an exceptional circumstance, but as a general rule no hugging.

What happens off CAP time and out of a CAP uniform is none of CAP's business.  When we become paid employees that can change, but we don't work for them.  We volunteer for them.

[Ned]

The case here is a cadet that wants to hug me. I'm really not comfortable hugging in the first place, and there is the additional point that the cadet is also male.

Well, since you mentioned it was a cadet, the answer is pretty easy:

1.  Decorum.  Cadets will conduct themselves in a professional and appropriate manner at all times while in uniform and at CAP meetings and activities.  Cadets will not engage in inappropriate touching or public displays of affection by kissing, hugging, or holding hands (or similar conduct) while in uniform.

CAPR 52-16, para 1-4 (h)

"The 52-16 is your friend."

[Monty]

I don't disagree with Ned, but rather, I'd supplement that answer with.......

Situational leadership.

The reg covers the VAST majority of circumstances, but a few folks have an inability to properly address the +/- 01% of the times when you DO look the other way when PDA happens.

Case and point: a cadet in a former squadron of mine found out at a meeting that her father had been killed in an accident.  Who's going to be "Billy Bad You-Know-What" and tell the cadet to "suck it up" or rather, not offer some form of consolation?  Show me that officer/senior member/whatever and I'll show you a big fat bag of crap for a leader...

Real policemen cry and hug....so do real firefighters.  Real armed forces personnel do also.  There's a time to act like a recruiting poster, and the regs reinforce that.  However, NOBODY has been convicted in criminal, civil, or courts martial for hugging a comrade in times of grief. 

But.....if we're talkin' about, *ahem* gettin' one's groove on......well thankfully that falls into the +/- 99% of the times the reg is there for folks.   

[lordmonar]

My reply is that...whether it is PDA or not....whether is it is an enlisted vs an officer thing or not.....if you are not comfortable, just say...I'm not a hugger.  How about a nice hand shake or gentle punch on the shoulder.

As for PDA...a quick hug after a meeting or in greeting, is not too unprofessional.  I see it on active duty all the time.  But that is the line.  A hug as a greeting.  Sort of like the 3 seconds rule....after that you are enjoying yourself too much.

And for the officer vs enlisted thing.....very much situational in this case.  CAP is not AD USAF and the dynamic is very different.  Just remember....everyone is looking at you and what you are doing.  Once it becomes a problem to good order and discipline your commander will be stepping in and we don't want to go there.

[Pumbaa]

Funny how cold we are in the US. Looking at some other cultures..

In Italy (for example), men would not hesitate to hug (and kiss) other men.  Greetings between sexes (In Public) are very warm embraces.  Nothing wrong, no sexual inferences.  Well maybe the occasion POTA...

What has happened to people in this country, that ANYTHING can.. and will be thought of as sexual or inappropriate? I have to fear greeting a co-worker whom I am close to, with crappy hand shake?  Which I might add handshaking is very unsanitary.. Ever listen to people coughing and sneezing, and boogering their hands in church, then offer it to you during the 'greet your neighbor' hand shaking sessions?  ewwwwww..

However, since we are a repressed society and are beholden to the political correctness doctrine... ehem..

Now CAP and Regs do say what we are, to and not to do... so we follow it...

That being said.... I agree with the 99% rule.. No PDA.. However, if one of my cadets is crushed cause they found out someone died, or they are breaking down for some oyjrt reason I would not hesitate to hug them.. uniform or not...

I would make sure there was someone else there.. just in case

[RiverAux]

Oh how about otherwise extremely inappropriate touching that might be necessary to treat injuries or medical emergencies....generally we frown on cutting people's clothes off....

[Pumbaa]

You mean we CAN'T cut peoples clothes off?

Ohhh the humanity....

[Pylon]

I currently work for a non-profit for people with developmental disabilities.  I am in an office environment and dress and am expected to act as a professional always, being in the public relations field.  However, people with developmental disabilities do not necessarily always have the cognitive ability to determine what is appropriate and inappropriate, and often approach staff to hug them to say hello.

Our agency has a simple policy to maintain professionalism, while not discounting the person in question. Acknowledge them verbally and if they continue to initiate a "hug" contact, simply turn to the side and turn it into a "side hug" or simply a hand around the shoulder.  In one move, you've stopped the "frontal hug", acknowledge the person and their needs, not made the other person feel uncomfortable by asking them to stop or recoiling away from them, and maintained your professionalism.

Simply put, sometimes people may want or emotionally need a hug.  You can maintain professionalism while still taking care of the needs of your people.  Be careful, be smart, and always make sure others are around in the room within eye-sight and ear-shot.  You don't have to be a cold, unaffected corpse to maintain professionalism, avoid PDA, and comply with CPPT.

[Hawk200]

The case here is a cadet that wants to hug me. I'm really not comfortable hugging in the first place, and there is the additional point that the cadet is also male.

Well, since you mentioned it was a cadet, the answer is pretty easy:

1.  Decorum.  Cadets will conduct themselves in a professional and appropriate manner at all times while in uniform and at CAP meetings and activities.  Cadets will not engage in inappropriate touching or public displays of affection by kissing, hugging, or holding hands (or similar conduct) while in uniform.

CAPR 52-16, para 1-4 (h)

"The 52-16 is your friend."

On the "officialese" side this is handy to know. Kinda helps.

My reply is that...whether it is PDA or not....whether is it is an enlisted vs an officer thing or not.....if you are not comfortable, just say...I'm not a hugger.  How about a nice hand shake or gentle punch on the shoulder.

And this is a good way to deal with it...

Funny how cold we are in the US. Looking at some other cultures..

I'm not trying to be cold, but I wasn't raised in a family that hugs a lot. Don't even hug my father. And my mother isn't around, no reason to deal with that issue.

What has happened to people in this country, that ANYTHING can.. and will be thought of as sexual or inappropriate?

Probably because people are suing each other on the grounds of "sexual harrasment". I've seen people in the Air Force end up in the Social Actions office because they asked someone out on a date. Which incidentally doesn't seem like "harrassment" to me when you only do it once. Personally, I do take "No" as a legitimate answer.

That being said.... I agree with the 99% rule.. No PDA.. However, if one of my cadets is crushed cause they found out someone died, or they are breaking down for some oyjrt reason I would not hesitate to hug them.. uniform or not...

I can understand that kind of situation. But to point out, I probably would not be the one to offer that kind of support. I'm really not that good at it.

[DogCollar]

I wasn't going to comment on this one...but....!

Adults working with children (and cadets ARE children by definition and development) must be constantly aware of their surroundings.  Any touching, beyond a cursory handshake, should be in public.  Not only with cadets is this principle appropriate, but also with other adults.

That being said...there are obviously times when personal touch CAN be comforting and calming to those who are emotionally traumatized.  However, the main thing with anyone experiencing trauma is be present with them.  You don't have to "say" any magic words (the words people use to comfort others are often resented later by the person experiencing the tragedy), nor do you have to "do" anything, like preset a cassarole on the spot.  Rather, a child will remember that you did not judge or look down upon their vulnerability.  You stayed with them, letting them know that it is NORMAL to be upset at tragedy.  If you can be what is referred to in Bowen's Systems Theory, as a non-anxious presence, you will be doing wonders for that person.

Now, if in the midst of being present for someone in crisis, and they initiate a hug,or need a shoulder to rest their head...it would be devestating to them to pull away.  You accept the risk.  But, break it off the moment the person seems to be in better control of their emotions.

A cadet that desires a hug from a senior member that ISN'T in a crisis...like at the end of a meeting as given in the example above...I think I would talk about it with the cadets' parent.  Such as, "You know, Johnny is fine cadet, and he is doing well in the program...however, he keeps asking me for a hug at the end of meetings.  Is this something he does elsewhere, with other adult leaders in his life?"
If the answer is "yes," I would say, "CAP has a regulation, built on the model of the military, that prevents me from giving him a hug.  I'm hoping that you will support me and follow up with him after I tell him."

If the answer is "no," then I would say to the parent, "Well, can you help me to figure out what this is all about?  Well you be present as I talk to him about it and CAP regulations?"

I hope these suggestions are helpful for some.  I have spent my career in ministry studying the pastoral response to emotional trauma (it will be my dissertation subject for the doctorate I am working on), and obviously I have presented only enough in this forum to probably be more confusing than helpful.  An appropriate resource for help in this area would be the CAP Chaplain Corp.  If you don't have a chaplain in your squadron, perhaps asking the wing chaplain for assistance would be beneficial.

[Rangersigo]

I would agree that it is an unnecessary show of familiarization in most instances.  At a promotion or something of that nature, possibly different.  But, perception is reality and consistency is the key.  With hugging, if it could be perceived the wrong way - it is wrong.  Better safe than sorry in this instance.

[Chappie]

I would concur with DogCollar's post.  On those occassions where I have felt, as a Chaplain, that the person who was experiencing a difficult moment needed and were looking for a form of physical assurance, I posed this question: "Permission to hug."  It gave both of us the approval needed.

However in CAP, under normal situations, a salute is better than a hug.

[Major_Chuck]

You mean we CAN'T cut peoples clothes off?

Ohhh the humanity....

We do that at work when the squads bring patients into the trauma room.  Trauma Shears, wonderful tool.  Cuts through all manner of leather coat.  Don't recommend it on down filled coats...the feathers go everywhere.

[fyrfitrmedic]

You mean we CAN'T cut peoples clothes off?

Ohhh the humanity....

We do that at work when the squads bring patients into the trauma room.  Trauma Shears, wonderful tool.  Cuts through all manner of leather coat.  Don't recommend it on down filled coats...the feathers go everywhere.

Amen to that, especially in the back of an ambulance.

[SJFedor]

We do that at work when the squads bring patients into the trauma room.  Trauma Shears, wonderful tool.  Cuts through all manner of leather coat.  Don't recommend it on down filled coats...the feathers go everywhere.

My first week working in trauma, we had a kid with a GSW that had a down filled coat. No one told me.

You woulda thought I had killed a dozen chickens in that room when I was done.

Lesson learned.

[Slim]

We do that at work when the squads bring patients into the trauma room.  Trauma Shears, wonderful tool.  Cuts through all manner of leather coat.  Don't recommend it on down filled coats...the feathers go everywhere.

My first week working in trauma, we had a kid with a GSW that had a down filled coat. No one told me.

You woulda thought I had killed a dozen chickens in that room when I was done.

Lesson learned.

Repeat after me.....the 1000ML saline bag is your friend.....and it's a lot easier to clean up too....